Will the Obama Administration *beep* up the end game again? - Charlie Wilson's War (2007) Discussion

[–] Professicchio 14 years ago

You know: it's really so nice to hear a fellow Conservative being happy to pay a colossal amount of money in taxes, for the years to come, to support things that happen thousands of miles away and which he does not even understand.

Shame on those idiots who want to spend them for the health of their fellow citizens, how daft!

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[–] euroman_35 14 years ago

History has shown that if the US stops to care about what happens thousands of miles away then what ever happens in that far away land often will end up biting the US in the ass later down the line.

To use use a film quote "The United States of America is the most powerful nation on Earth and therefore the most hated. What the average American fails to realise is that we (The United States) are at war 24/7 all around the world."

Also remember what Abe Lincoln said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".

I'm a Conservative, and thats my opinion on this matter.

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[–] Professicchio 14 years ago

First, since you seem to fancy quotes, I'll just start this conversation with a quote by someone who was far more knowledgeable than you and I on History:

"The only thing we learn from History is that History doesn't teach us anything"
GWF Hegel

Second, I come across delusional yanks like yourself pretty much every day of my life, almost to the point I feel a sense of "tenderness" towards you guys: a bit like an old man watching a four year old boy that still believes the snow on the mountain peaks is made of candy floss. Yes, of course: why tell the truth when you can watch children be happy on the thought that Santa Claus does exist and indeed he comes through the chimney on every Christmas day to bring presents? Problem is it's OK when you are a child and people are looking after you, not so much when you want to live among adults and make decisions by yourself. Things are even worse when you put a child in the place of the adult looking after other kids or even other adults: the lack of 'maturity' eventually will become a problem. You try to figure out the metaphor, if you care.

To talk more straight: yeah sure, it's a problem when America stops to care isn't it? Shame not many actually bother to find out how many problems actually originate THE MOMENT YOU START TO CARE.
We are all scared of Iran and their crazy fundamentalist regime, aren't we? Shame though, to think that the same regime would simply NOT EXIST if dear America (among others) wouldn't have stuck his nose into king Palavi domestic affairs and turn him into an hate figure among his own people, so much to make them throw him away and put a fanatic cleric on his place.
Try and ask about America's "care" to a Chilean who has lost a father, mother, brother or sister under the regime of Pinochet: the worst dictator that country has ever seen, while its democratic-elected president was kindly "taken care" of by the CIA. And again, you remember someone called Saddam Hussein? Sure America took kindly "care" of him by making sure that he would stay in power for nearly three decades until a sudden "change of wind" felt by W. Bush. I guess since it was his father's administration that was largely responsible for the massacre of the Kurds right after Gulf War 1, maybe Bush Jr. really wanted to "take care" and make out for all that, out of Christian guilt.
Ho! And let's not forget that great patriot of Richard Nixon that back in 1972, went all the way down to China to take his pants down and bend over a communist dictator and essentialy saying: "Please general Mao, rape me! Rape me down deep in the ass and do the same to all my fellow countrymen for the centuries to come: just as long as i don't have to shake hands with those nasty Soviets."
And talk about Soviets! How were we happy back in those day to splash millions on those Mujhiadeens in Afghanistan, just as long as they "took care" of the Russians! Of course no one bothered back than about the details of asking how much did they actually gave a f#@k about America and how deep their loyalty went, but no problem, the many among them who later became known as the "Taliban" gave out an answer, eventually.
I could go on for as long as the History of mankind his, but, since facts are still happening and updating regularly I rather stop now, I am getting bored with myself too.

By the way, pal, the guy who said: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" was not Lincoln but Thomas Jefferson, talking of which I can't help but thinking about my long-time suspicion: that your country has been sound asleep at least since that fateful day on April 1865, when a bullet took Lincoln away from this world.
George Carlin famously said: "It's called American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it", personally, since I'm far more cynical then he ever was, I just think you might as well stay asleep, honestly mate I don't think it makes much difference now: it hurts a lot less than trying to figure out the truth.

I'm a Mean Bastard, and that's the fact on this matter.

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[–] CaliCurmudgeon 14 years ago

Oh, so you would have preferred Iran as a Soviet client state, then?

And if you believe that Allende wasn't well on his way to setting up a Communist dictatorship, much as Hugo Chavez has done to Venezuela now, you are a dupe. Nationalizing someone else's mines without paying for them is properly called banditry.

Funny how you don't seem to mind the "blowback", that massive amounts of material support given to Stalin in order to destroy Hitler, had later on. That doesn't bother you a bit now, does it?

In the real world, playing one baddie off against another is Realpolitik. Why you take such umbrage when the Americans like Nixon do it as well as old Metternich is revealing.

Yes, you Eurotrash leftists are as predictable as you are tendentious, and as despicable as you are inept. Enjoy your upcoming dhimmitude.

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[–] MJohnathen 14 years ago

Soviet client state? It was a communist government but not connected to the soviet union in any way, like Cuba or Yugoslavia, and Yes I would of preferred it that way, a stable government instead of CIA involvement and there after abandonment *beep* yeah I would of preferred that.

The rest of your statement is rather rubbish with no connection to the topic, it's funny how Republicans can find a way to bring up Stalin in any conversation as if it's the "I'm right" button to press.

"Yes, you Eurotrash leftists are as predictable as you are tendentious, and as despicable as you are inept. Enjoy your upcoming dhimmitude. "

I'm American, Infact I'm a real american, a Yankee Infact you know, a northern, Nice try.

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[–] CaliCurmudgeon 14 years ago

"It was a communist government but not connected to the soviet union in any way, like Cuba"

Such a fatuous statement speaks for itself. Missiles of October 1962 and all that.

"I'm American, Infact I'm a real american, a Yankee Infact you know, a northern, Nice try."

Well, gee, you aren't "Professicchio", are you? Learn to read.

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[–] MJohnathen 14 years ago

"Such a fatuous statement speaks for itself. Missiles of October 1962 and all that."

Poor little boy, papa has to school you in some history you were never taught, mostly because it didn't look good for uncle sam.

In 1958 the development of a plan there after the deployment of Jupiter IRBMs to Turkey which was finished in 1961, to enable first strike means on Moscow.

It wasn't until 1962 that the soviets attempted to do the same, the reason why the Cuban gave the OK, was because of the failed 1961 bay of pigs invasion, Cuba feeling threaten by future schemes invited Moscow to deploy nuclear weapons in Cuba.

The reason for the back down of the Soviet Union was because WE agreed to remove them from turkey, even though this "looked" like a great victory of America by the propaganda Mill.

"Well, gee, you aren't "Professicchio", are you? Learn to read."

Apparently you need to learn how to properly phrase a sentence.

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[–] CaliCurmudgeon 13 years ago

Irrelevant. Cuba was hardly "independent". Your stupidly fatuous statement is that Cuba "was a communist government but not connected to the Soviet Union in any way, like Cuba"

And Mossadegh's Iran was even *more* connected to the Soviet Union.

But hey, that's a good little stooge.

Now how much Sandinista sperm did you guzzle down?

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[–] Professicchio 14 years ago

I do not prefer anything, pal.
I just state a simple fact: "what goes around comes around", however cliche` that might sound it's still a matter of fact.

Say what you like about Chavez but he is still much more popular in his own country than some US presidents seem to be in recent years among their own crowd.
If push comes to shove let the same country who has put it in his place deal with him, they will learn, the good or hard way, look what's happening in Egypt among many others.

Well done to USA for making some wise choices in the world of realpolitik; shame though those who have benefitted will never say "thank you" while those who haven't will curse you for the rest of eternity.
Nothing personal mind you! It's just how human nature works, maybe your descendants will understand one day.

Since we were talking about a specific country and I had already gone in lenght, I left the rest of the argument to you and whoever wanted to add in the picture; as I said there is space to go on for as long as the History of mankind goes, clearly it's unfair to point just to USA since it has been in the picture only in the past few centuries.

I might be Eurotrash but I'm not much of a leftist, I just consider myself a "realist" who likes to cut down other people's delusional beliefs as a hobby, I'm some sort of sadist you might say, with an ego issue.

I enjoy my dhimmitude very much also, thank you, and the fact that Islam is growing in popularity in Europe, for example.
HO WAIT! It's happening in US of A as well? OK, I guess we are not so much different after all! Don't you just love these ironies that life throws at you? And it's just been few years since 9/11/01.

Regarding the "banditry" factor maybe you could go and talk to a Native American who knows his History and ask him what's his views on that.
We could also have a conversation on how dear America has made disappear so many jobs and money around the world in the last financial crisis, of course that would be a different type of "banditry" I guess, something the bandits in question usually get away with and occasionally even get state-sponsored bonuses on top of it.
But my guess is that the most interesting thing will be to see how you will cope with the national debt going up tenfolds in just as many years since the turn of the century.
I just wonder who might be the first to be getting a little impatient about all this "borrowing" and maybe, just maybe, starting to give it a different name...

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[–] AtheistRevolution 13 years ago

Well we all know history does repeat itself. US is just doing the same thing other empires,superpowers have done throughout history on a smaller scale. And when US eventually falls which will probably come soon because Americans keep electing Republicans. The next superpower will d to the same things. And it will repeat itself after that until humans are finally extinct. And you can't just blame US for this. Its not like Europe wasn't jumping on the bandwagon.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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[–] Professicchio 13 years ago

I was not dismissing the role of other countries in the cold war machinations, I was just concentrating on the role of the US in the assumption that the OP was just another particularly naive US Republican but, as these things often turn out to be, he is infact quite clearly an european, and as ironic as life can be, the naivety got blown back into my face.

And talk about naivety, sorry but I am really not buying that much into the "blame the Republicans", "blame the Liberals" or blame whatever game, not that I am keen on easy conspiracy theories that find whoever the puppet politician of turn to be just a token for the same tiny "invisible" elite.

Personally I am quite puzzled on how Clinton has got such a reputation among leftists everywhere: this was the same guy who bent over to Alan Greenspan the very first day he sat on his presidential seat (huh, that must have hurt later!), that decided it was better to just let the Kosovo massacre unfold rather than risk any troops (the place just does not have enough petrol for the effort, I cynically assume) and shook hands, dined and publicly praised the worst examples of corporate scumbags that the world had to offer, most famously the Enron, while being the prime example of perfectly evolved media-savvy whore that trailed on the path ploughed by Reagan; Clinton's way was to inspire greatly his UK counterpart and, ironically again, great JW Bush pal, Tony Blair.
Under Blair/Clinton the gap rich-poor has not subsided compared to the Thatcher/Reagan era, if else it has grown even wider. My faith in Obama isn't much better, not he does not want to, there is just very little he can push upon on every direction before receiving a serious blowback, that is the good (but ironically also the "bad") of modern "democracies".

Yes, there is a dangerous invisible elite out there that is corroding the present civilization as we speak, causing History to repeat itself, that monster is called "us" (not the one with the capital letters).
"Us" that just feels confortable to jump on the bandwagon of whoever tells "us" what it wants to hear and makes it feel comfortable rather than those who try to make the good for the world in general, which, quite unfortunately for "us", requires effort, understanding and personal sacrifices.

There is a sad, not very often told truth about the so called democracy that we are living (though I can argue that there really isn't a single "democracy" in the world today, but that's another story): that whoever left/right/centre political class is on the helm, it can just be, at the very best, just as good as those who have put it in its place.

Time to take an hard, contemplative look upon us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yiQXPOO1Yo

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[–] CaliCurmudgeon 13 years ago

Gee, twinkletoes, the borrowing is happening to pay for all of your socialist programs. Yes, the USA has them too, although not as many. And you Euros are going off the financial cliff first.

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[–] Professicchio 13 years ago

..the borrowing is happening to pay for all of your socialist programs

Gee, twinkletoes, I seriously hope for your own sake that you are not really THAT deluded. What the hell is this "your socialist programs" by the way? If there is really one country above the others that does not take advice or acts under the direct influence of any other country that is the USA (which is more than can be said for other less fortunate countries), so the socialist bit is purely and exclusively your problem, your idea and your resolution: it's your socialism in short.

And how come nobody talks about the fact that US citizens pay 3 to 7 times or more in taxes of what citizens in every 'civilized' country do towards 'national defense', wouldn't that count as 'socialism', no?
Go tell that to someone who has lived in the Soviet regime or similar.

And one last question: how did it really came to this?
Sure, let's blame the usual suspects, socialists or not, and keep condoning financiers, lawyers, warmongers, preachers, politicians and all sorts of high-flying social parasites that have slowly sold-out the manufacturing industry, the resources, the know-how and all other assests (in short: your ass) to places like China which, by a strange coincidence (if you ar the sort that believes in fairytales that is), happens to be the place which most of the US debt is owned to.

The one sure thing I shall do when the Euro goes finally down the financial cliff is to throw the biggest party of my whole life: the only difference it has made to my, and millions others', life has been to make everything ridiculously more expensive in barely a decade; at the deep end euros are nothing more than fancy-looking pieces of paper and not in any way representative of real economical assets (and so are dollars, but shhh.. please don't tell that to the guys in Wall Street).

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[–] Professicchio 14 years ago

.....tough thing to swallow reality, isn't it?

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] AtheistRevolution 12 years ago

That's a bunch of bs. When US was isolationist nobody tried to attack or anything else. The last time a country attacked US was Japan and that was because US got in the way of them trying to takeover China and Asia. Only because Japan threatened western colonies in the region.If US stayed out of other countries business we wouldn't have terrorism and everything else. US isn't hated because of power but overthrows,assassinations,etc. Read up on Smedley Butler,William Blum 'Killing Hope',Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. And its pretty obvious why people are so pissed at US foreign policy.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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[–] MJohnathen 14 years ago

Only end game you should of worried about was the stable one we helped destroy and replaced by our corrupt puppets.

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[–] Jimbo_BSD 13 years ago

I love the mindset of conservatives. Everything is always the other guys fault, facts be damned.

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[–] 13 years ago

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