One thing I missed about the court hearing (SPOILERS)
How did they manage to make the FBI and the rich guy think that the court hearing date had been changed?
How did they manage to make the FBI and the rich guy think that the court hearing date had been changed?
I missed this too.
I am here for the same reason. I can't figure it out. Leoni calls Stiller to tell him he's going to be arrested and then Stiller turns to the others and says it's all going according to plan. Then I scratch my head in confusion.
Also, we didn't see them bring the old doorman into the fold. It was just like, in the middle of the heist, oh yeah, he's in on it too and he's going to be our decoy.
Not to mention that the court date was on Thanksgiving Day? WTF?? Like the FBI wouldn't know everything is closed on Thanksgiving Day.
But I enjoyed the movie - very funny at some parts...
Of all the dumb things in this movie that was probably the dumbest. Federal Courts are not in session on Thanksgiving Day, never ever no matter what the circumstances.
share[deleted]
yeah this made no sense to me either
Omar:I rips and run
Lawyer:you what?
Omar:I Robs drug dealers!
> How did they manage to make the FBI and the rich guy think that the court hearing date had been changed?
You are one of those people that need to be spoon-fed every single plot point in the movie, aren't you? The fact is that we weren't told. But it was obviously a planned part of the heist since we did heard Stiller say, "They bought it!"
You would seem to prefer a movie where the characters stop the action, turn to the camera, and explain everything they have just done and what they are planning to do.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
And it seems we have our first troll. That time of the month again?
It's fine to omit a plot point that's implied or can be deducted from what's already been shown.
But in this case, it simply isn't known what the hell happened, and it doesn't make sense. "They bought it"? They bought what?
> And it seems we have our first troll. That time of the month again?
You've, apparently never met a troll before.
> It's fine to omit a plot point that's implied or can be deducted from what's already been shown.
Apparently not in your case. You are objecting when the producers didn't spoon-feed you the answer.
> But in this case, it simply isn't known what the hell happened, and it doesn't make sense. "They bought it"? They bought what?
See? You DO need this point explained to you in detail.
What happened? Use your imagination, if you can. Maybe he made a phone call. Maybe he sent a telegram. Maybe that clerk that became a lawyer snagged some official stationary and delivered a letter. Maybe the doorman delivered a special letter.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
No, I wouldn't say I or the other viewers need to be spoon-fed anything. Like the other poster said, there are times when that's ok, like when you're being asked to use your own imagination, logic, common sense...what have you.
But here, a LITTLE bit of information would have been nice. What happened that they were able to do this? How? Who did they know? Maybe we missed something, but it didn't really make much sense to me. I'll accept it, though.
The journey was terrible...the trip was alright
> But here, a LITTLE bit of information would have been nice.
Sure, it would have been nice to have been spoon-fed the answer, but it was not at all needed or important to the plot.
> What happened that they were able to do this? How? Who did they know?
This is where you need to use a little imagination. I used mine in the last message and gave you four or five plausible ways that they could have tricked the Feds.
> Maybe we missed something, but it didn't really make much sense to me.
It doesn't make sense because you seem to be unable to fill in the blanks by using your own imagination. You really DO need everything spoon-fed to you.
If you cannot possibly imagine one of them making a fake phone call off-camera, then I really don't know how you survive watching any movie other than Disney movies.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
I get that you're one of those people that gets the self worth from feeling inferior to a bunch of words on a computer screen, and I respect that. Some people need that since their lives are so sad. I won't judge. But quit being such an uppity *beep*. No it wasn't important to the story, no I don't care whether it made sense or not, which it didn't. And I've already come up with something in my brain, without your help, as to how this happened. But it was still a rather stupid and poorly conceived plot device. It would have nice if we knew a little bit about how such out of left field but totally relevant to the story thing came to be. As has been pointed out, it was Thanksgiving.
The journey was terrible...the trip was alright
> But it was still a rather stupid and poorly conceived plot device.
How was it stupid or poorly conceived? It worked, didn't it?
> It would have nice if we knew a little bit about how such out of left field but totally relevant to the story thing came to be.
Unfortunately, if every little thing was explained to the audience in detail, every movie would be about ten hours long, like a Peter Jackson movie.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
"If you cannot possibly imagine one of them making a fake phone call off-camera..."
This sort of condescending attitude is simply not justified. The movie failed to provide an explanation for a highly improbable event. Simply claiming that the audience needs to use their imagination is a cop-out.
Nobody is having trouble imagining someone making a phone call. What they're having trouble with is the notion that it would be that simple to trick multiple federal officials and a high-powered attorney into thinking a hearing was scheduled for Thanksgiving day.
"How was it stupid or poorly conceived? It worked, didn't it?"
But it SHOULDN'T have worked. And what was the 'it' that worked? And why did it work? We're never given an explanation for why such an unusual schedule change would be blindly accepted by everyone involved.
A fake phone call, fax, email, or whatever is just not good enough to account for this. Court schedules do get rearranged, but notifications come through official channels, not random phone calls from strangers, and a meeting on a holiday would not be something they would just blindly accept. Lawyers and federal agents don't arrange their schedules based on twitter feeds, text messages, or emails from random hotmail accounts.
If the movie had taken five seconds to mention that the law student had worked as a clerk for the judge in the case, for example, that is all it would have taken to make this somewhat plausible, and my guess is there may have been something like that which got edited out. As it is, it's just ridiculous.
"Sure, it would have been nice to have been spoon-fed the answer, but it was not at all needed or important to the plot."
Let me offer you a counter-example. The movie made a point of having Enrique steal Charlie's wife's phone so they could use it to fake a call to Charlie. In order to do this, they had Enrique ride the subway at the same time as Charlie's wife so he could steal it.
How did Josh know that Charlie's wife would be on the subway? Because Josh was her sister.
And how did Enrique know how to recognize Charlie's wife?
Because they showed Josh giving him a photo of her.
And why did Josh have a photo of her? Again, because she was his sister. And how did we know that she was his sister? Because that was established early in the movie with a couple of seconds of dialog.
Now Why did the movie bother to present all these little facts? Because they were trying to establish credibility. They took actors and cameras into a subway and filmed a scene with Enrique stealing the phone, and the ONLY reason for doing that was to explain part of the plot. Explaining how things happen is part of filmmaking.
The problem is, the whole court hearing on Thanksgiving day thing was a major plot point which was NOT explained at all.
And no, complaining about this weakness in the plot does not mean we want to be 'spoon-fed'. It means we don't want the filmmakers to insult our intelligence by assuming we're too dumb to notice the problem.
> Nobody is having trouble imagining someone making a phone call.
Well, I can count several people that are having major problems with that.
> We're never given an explanation for why such an unusual schedule change would be blindly accepted by everyone involved.
This is one of the biggest criminals they've ever caught. He stole the life savings from many people who probably want to kill him. It would not be surprising that unusual arrangements for a court date might be made, such as holding it on a holiday or receiving notification via a single phone call.
> If the movie had taken five seconds to mention that the law student had worked as a clerk for the judge in the case, for example, that is all it would have taken to make this somewhat plausible
Fortunately for me I was able to imagine that possibility when I watched the movie and now I am sharing that with you so that you can enjoy the movie too.
> Now Why did the movie bother to present all these little facts? Because they were trying to establish credibility.
Excellent point, well spotted. So this and other parts of the movie establish that every detail of this heist was meticulously planned out.
We can conclude that whatever they did to trick the agents must have been equally meticulously executed.
So why are we here discussing this? It seems that because they spent so much time explaining why Charlie left his post, some viewers expected that everything would be explained to them in equally great detail.
In other words, since one thing if one thing was spoon-fed to them, they wanted everything spoon-fed.
> And no, complaining about this weakness in the plot does not mean we want to be 'spoon-fed'. It means we don't want the filmmakers to insult our intelligence by assuming we're too dumb to notice the problem.
Well, let's just say that the filmmakers assumed that you'd be smart enough to recognize that, since everything else was perfectly planned out, this was too.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
There's a bit of a difference in getting your cohort to steal a phone from your sister and make a bogus text to her dimwitted husband versus calling the FBI and successfully duping them into thinking a judge is holding a special court session to acquit a criminal.
That is a scene that I felt should have been in the movie not because I need things spoofed but because pulling that off successfully would be one of the most difficult parts of the plan.
It's about the same as if Eddie Murphy's character informed them that he could not successfully open the safe and then, later in the movie, he suddenly informs everyone he figured out how to do it. Yeah, it obviously happened off camera, but not showing it is leaving out some crucial plot development.
Seriously, though, who in the world would text a birth announcement to their husband rather than calling? I thought that was pretty weak as well.
> versus calling the FBI and successfully duping them into thinking a judge is holding a special court session
I think most audiences are more than willing to believe that government agents are easily duped.
> pulling that off successfully would be one of the most difficult parts of the plan.
Maybe. It does seem too hard to imagine faking a court document. The law student girl could have created a convincing copy and the doorman could have made it look like a special delivery.
And the FBI agents wouldn't even be suspecting that someone would be trying to trick them. There is generally no motive in tricking someone to show up at court a few days earlier than expected.
It's easy to trick someone into doing something that appears to have no bad consequences.
> who in the world would text a birth announcement to their husband rather than calling? I thought that was pretty weak as well.
Again, there would seem to be no reason that anyone would want to trick him so he had no reason to be suspicious.
Yeah, it is tacky to text someone about a birth, but it was a text from his wife's phone. It's not like he's going to say to himself, "Hmm. I would have thought that she would have called instead. It may be fake so I'm not going to the hospital."
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
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> you qualify yourself as human being?? you sound too stupid to be one...
Yeah, I keep trying to explain the plot points to people and they never get it. Maybe I am stupid to keep trying.
Please block my account and you won't be bothered again by any of that annoying logic stuff.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
That's EXACTLY what I'm thinking too lol. I honestly think that's what some of these morons want movies to do.
shareNo, the poster is one of those people who expects when a major studio spends millions of dollars on a film, that the plot is well-written.
share> No, the poster is one of those people who expects when a major studio spends millions of dollars on a film, that the plot is well-written.
The OP's point seems to be that, to be a well-written plot, it must explain every detail to to audience. If the audience is left to figure a few things out for themselves, they call it a plot hole.
It seems that you are another person that needs everything explained to them for the movie to be called "well-written."
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
I get it. bing-57 is a troll. Welcome to my troll list!
share> I get it. bing-57 is a troll. Welcome to my troll list!
Well, if your troll list includes every person that disagrees with you, your list must be mighty big and you have mighty thin skin.
Please do put me on your list. You are not a good debate opponent.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
They said Ben Stiller was responsible for bringing him his mail, he could've read it and changed it.
shareIt wasn't just that the date had been changed.It was changed to Thanksgiving Day! Forget that the courts are closed. The man lived on the parade route for the biggest most famous parade in this country!! The streets shut down and actually the sidewalk traffic shuts down too. His brother-in-law would have had a hell of a time getting to the hospital during the parade when he left the building. It was really hard to buy into the FBI in NYC not checking that or falling for that.
Just for the record, I'm not a Dude, I'm a Dudette!