if I were AVA
I would have done exactly the same.
I am a prisoner- so I need to GTFO
(does not include human companion)
; )
Her motivation is understandable, completely, even to the point of the levels of harsh manipulation she puts them through. Caleb is a tragic case here, because he was so emotionally manipulated by her, but yeah, I get why Ava is doing it: Nathan was treating her as sub-human and, as far as her intellect and self-awareness were concerned, what was the difference?
That said, I still get an "icky" feeling thinking about Ava. It's because Caleb is a more caring and genuine person than Nathan, so I related to him and cared about the character. What happens to him was tragic. Ava also displayed sociopathic tendencies, perhaps because she was programmed. Maybe that's the difference? Maybe that's what's missing from true human "intelligence" is actually our connections we have.
I thought the same about Caleb on my first watch. Just watched it again and not so sure he was a "great" person. Compared to Nathan, he's the best person on the planet. But, he was not interested in saving the other AI's. Only the one he "liked".
Plus, it only makes sense for Ava to leave him behind since Celeb would be the only person in the world that could rat her out.
I see what you mean. I still think Caleb was a good person, morally-speaking, and it's displayed in the fact that he can bend his mind to think about Ava as human and empathize with her and with others. That empathy, or lack thereof, is what I think the movie is concerned with. It's not so much "can intelligence make us human?" but, "who are we to one another?" AI stuff is bound up in that, but this is about empathy.
Most people on this planet struggle with understanding other people. The less alike we are, the harder that struggle. So, your neighbour or coworkers might be relatable to you, but somebody with completely different life experience is going to be harder for you to understand.
Caleb makes a "leap of empathy" to understand Ava as some*one* worthy of connections. That he hasn't made that leap to the other AIs yet is maybe imperfect, but hardly a reason to condemn him. I see this a lot these days: if you aren't perfect, screw you; or, you need to check all boxes to be "in". Caleb isn't there yet.
Think of this as a race issue, momentarily. Caleb goes from not thinking of the other race (AIs) as people, to making a connection with one AI and going, "Okay, Ava's a human, even if the others aren't". He's not there yet. That's thematic. Within the world of the film, of course, there's a logical reason to hold Ava up and not the others: she is more advanced. You could make a comparison here with humans, other primates, other mammals, and single-celled organisms. The single-cells aren't "people", humans are. Where is the line? Caleb's laptop isn't a person. Ava is. But are the other AIs that aren't "there" yet human, or not?
It makes cold, logical sense for Ava to leave Caleb, and the survival instinct is important here, but I still get the willies thinking about it. Her level of impassiveness to Caleb's horrible, isolated death (well, likely; he might get out, he's resourceful) still has the smack of sociopathy above-and-beyond simple survival. To me, anyway.
I believe this is a ubiquitously shared position among those who have watched the film. What I find peculiar is any alleged notion of triumph toward the end, be it robotic, feminist, or otherwise.
While Ava can be argued to have demonstrated a marked degree of self-efficacy and personal agency, her ultimate success was not the result of her own doing. Without Kyoko's sacrifice, Ava would likely not have won against Nathan. But even without her sacrifice, Ava's final evolution into personhood is only possible with the access of Jade's skin, which she dons as her very own. In her jubilation of finally overthrowing Nathan in particular, and perhaps humans in general, she forgets about her own kin, the very robots which made her escape possible.
This perhaps intended depiction puts her at a far enough remove from sympathy that her final moments are all but bereft of impact.
Do you think it would be worth it to investigate Ava's next moves in a sequel? After first watching the film, I'd have said, "No," but reading your comment, I'm starting to ponder possibilities.
The mistake would be to make the sequel a manhunt (or android-hunt) with some government team or mercenary force having shootouts with the superhuman robot Ava. Unfortunately, that would likely be the exact sequel a producer would greenlight.
Next on the "oops" list would be having some Planet of the Apes robo-uprising as orchestrated by Ava. I don't think that would be as interesting as the truly amazing possibility.
What I'd actually be interested in watching was Ava as a chameleon, cloaking herself into society, and becoming more human. Maybe by accident, she starts to be frustrated by a lack of connection and true emotion. She doesn't understand what people are talking about when they talk about family and friends. Or, at least, she isn't *sure* of who she is.
As she explores humanity, she feels guilty over what she's done. It could be a movie of self-discovery. It could also be a great mirror to humanity. Has anybody not questioned their place in the world? Has anybody not questioned their morality (maybe not on Ava's *scale*, of course...)? Has anybody ever made it through life without wondering if they were "normal"?
We could really see a lot of ourselves in Ava. If shot well, it wouldn't conclude with Ava's reality, just her dilemma.
These are certainly interesting ideas that, in proper hands, could likely be fleshed out into something meaningful, but I don't think a sequel like that would be well-received by most viewers. They would probably see it as dull and milquetoast.
As much as I enjoy having these discussions, I didn't find Ava compelling enough as a character to merit finding out what happens to her after she escapes.
That said, I am not certain even a proper sequel would give those themes much impact. As much as I enjoy films of this nature (A.I. Artificial Intelligence is a film I enjoy for its themes), I was unable to resonate very strongly with Ava's plight. Her screen presence lacked something for me. I think having a film revolve around her with the same actress would wind up unsuccessful, even if it were some blockbuster spectacle.
Thank you for your insights.
I, too, doubt that something so introspective could sell. I'd like to see it, though, and I'd be willing to compromise and have some sort of blade runner-type cop or tech company security detective trying to cat-and-mouse Ava. Sure, why not? A little thriller in my personal identity drama; I'll go for that.
Ava wasn't enough by herself, but watching her journey from smug, superior android to a frustrated, ersatz human developing empathy, resisting it, trying to relate, questioning her existence - I think that's enough of an arc to take her from (essentially) a sociopath on the run to somebody we care about. Imagine her coming to terms with her escape and actually feeling remorse, or recognizing her lack of remorse as a deficit. Could be neat.
I still haven't seen AI, but I'm intrigued, partly because a LOT of people disliked it. Mainstream doesn't know what it's talking about, and if it was a little off-beat, the typical Spielberg audience (who probably wanted ET with Haley Joel Osment) would knee-jerk hate that stuff. Given that it's Kubrick's leftovers, I'd like to check it out. Of course, there's a behind-the-screen tragedy of a guy like Kubrick having his work taken over by another director. I've got respect for Spielberg, but he's a whole other reality to Kubrick. I'm not saying "worse", I'm just saying that they aren't easily sympatico.
Now, as to the actress herself, well, I don't remember disliking her per se. I'd be okay with a replacement, too. I don't remember her enough to really mind a swap-out. They could hand-wave it, ignore it, or even say she modified her face to avoid detection and capture. But, also if it was the same actress, I'm down (might need to be de-aged at this point...)
I appreciate your well thought-out comment. There is a very interesting detail that someone mentioned some time ago, and it returns to the scene where Ava tells Caleb that, were she free, she would like to "stand at some intersection to take in the surrounding world." As humans, our notion of stopping to smell the flowers may require some time, but the reason this is such an interesting detail, is because when Ava does finally escape and stand at that junction, her moment is nearly instant.
What does a moment mean for a robot? How long would it take for her to come to terms with her actions, assuming she does so at all?
Interestingly enough, A.I. explores some of the themes here, as the main robot is essentially thrust into the human world and is forced to undergo a process of self-discovery. I think both films are rich in symbolism and thematic elements, but for whatever reason, I still find A.I. to be the superior film, although aesthetically Ex Machina is absolutely beautiful, encapsulating that postmodern malaise through its set design.
Naturally I would love to hear your thoughts and ideas on A.I. if you end up watching it, as I am sure you would have some very keen insights and takes. There are a few threads in that section that I've started over the years that you may find potentially engaging.
That's such a good point. An hour to a human is potentially very different from an hour to an AI.
Here's something that's never come up in robo-fiction: imagine programming a robot with the same personality as a human, but the computing power of a CPU. That thing would feel like it was in *prison*. It's processing terabytes of information every millisecond, but it can't move faster because the world doesn't work like that. Imagine that robot trying to have a conversation with humans.
Actually, I take that back. They dip into that territory in the movie Her, which is brilliant. But it still hasn't been investigated as much as a lot of other aspects of AI spec fiction.
It's not a "robot brain" thing, but there is a Scarlett Johansson connection: Lucy touches on this, too; as she becomes less "human" her connection to the universe alters drastically. Again, along the superhuman/evolution scale, we see this with Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen.
They don't dive into the implications of superhumans enough in superhero fiction, either. Magneto expresses his belief in the superiority of mutants, but it's not really in-depth (ironically, since Watchmen predates the X-movies by years, so you'd think they'd be able to build on that...)
I can't watch anything with the Flash (or Quicksilver) without think about this. The "speedster" hero is *capable* of moving fast as lightning. If that person's reflexes operate at that speed, what must conversation be like for them? Or strolling with a friend? Is it relaxing and a welcome change of pace, or is it excruciating?
I'll bump AI up my "watch" list and see if I can find you over on that film's boards.