So Women are Basically Robots?
Ava used Caleb for her purpose then discarded him. Pretty much like 99% of all women. Im glad they made that connection in the film :)
shareMore like men are disposable tissues
"somebody used to live here"
MovieChat Forums > Ex Machina (2015) Discussion > So Women are Basically Robots?
I feel like you've either not had a lot of experience with actual women or one woman wasn't nice to you and therefore they're all the same and all nasty. Am I close with either of these?
shareNo, after 37 years I can say that he his quite correct. Regardless of the charade, all women are this way inclined at some point. Once they are either done with you supporting them, or you no longer sexually arouse them, or you fail them in some other way, or the big one, you go out of flavour with them which is kosher for their hormones have changed towards you, expect to be discarded.
By my deeds I honor him, V8
Well your view towards women is very worrying and close minded. Just because you may have had some bad experiences with women or just because you managed to pick a few bad eggs, that doesn't mean that all women are like that. Taking away the idea from this movie to say that all women are emotionless robots that use men and discard them would be like me taking away from this movie that all men are psychopathic drunks that just want their women to be compliant sex objects, and if the woman doesn't like that then he'll simply kill them and move on to someone else. Neither of these would be or are healthy viewpoints to have and both would be and are completely wrong. If I'd come onto this board and started a thread saying that this movie proves that all men are *beep* I would be swarmed by men (probably yourself included) saying that that's wrong and that not all men are like that, and rightly so because that's ridiculous. Just like the things that yourself and the OP are saying about women.
shareAww snookums come on don't be like that you make me want to cry. Unfortunately what I said was true, movie aside. And yes most men are psychopathic drunks looking to use women as well, this movie should be taught in schools: "See kids? This is what happens when you grow up."
By my deeds I honor him, V8
Ok, first of all, there's no need to try and be patronising.
And second of all, don't be like what? Honest?
What you said isn't true and neither is saying that about men. You just sound like a misanthrope.
Not where I come from, if you know a city where people don't act like this, that is warm, then please, tell me. Because I can tell you that I live on the Gold Coast and basically anywhere in Australia where it is warm , you get elevated testosterone levels because of the heat and the sun and people end up acting like this and sadly I am not kidding. Welcome to straya on the gold coast where everyone's a dick.
By my deeds I honor him, V8
Proof that some men can do more than get drunk and rpe though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzP7LUped8&feature=youtu.be
By my deeds I honor him, V8
That link is just to your own video.
Are you literally just here to try and self promote?
Also, I'm fully aware that some men and women can be nasty and evil. I never said otherwise, but the majority are not like that. The whole of humankind shouldn't be thrown in with the bad lot.
Ya, not in this city, unless we're talking about the over 70's crowd. Every day there are more domestic beatings in the daily paper, it's epidemic.
By my deeds I honor him, V8
This is boring you know? Every time a guy complains women being manipulative & selfish like the OP, a girl like you appears & says the exact same words as you did -- "just because you have met some nasty women doesn't mean all women are evil".
This is really really really BORING!!
Why do you need to argue over and over with anyone when you should realize that most women (almost 99% like the OP said & NOT ALL) use men for their materialistic need and sex.
You may be a piece of diamond in a coal mine. But that doesn't make the whole coal mine diamond, does it?
If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend!
If it's so boring then why did you bother to read my responses, why not just skip past them? My points are valid. If I (or any other girl) had come on here and said that this movie is proof that all men are *beep* we would have been swarmed with messages saying 'not all men are like that'. That would also be true. If I judged every single man from a few bad experiences that would be just as wrong. All men and women shouldn't be thrown in with the minority that are nasty people.
when you should realize that most women (almost 99% like the OP said & NOT ALL) use men for their materialistic need and sex.
Why should I realise something that is simply not true? I'm not denying that there are women like that in the world but the percentage of those women compared to the rest would be nowhere near that high.
Also, in the context of this movie, calling all women cold, emotionless, manipulative robots doesn't fully work anyway considering the way that Nathan created and treated these robots which was what drove them to rebel against him and to assume that all men were the same. We know that to be wrong because Caleb wasn't anything like Nathan, and this way of thinking was shown as wrong, yet people are watching this film and taking away from it that all women are the same? It's ridiculous. share
So you don't need a man for sex or material needs? Great.
If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend!
Well, technically women don't need men for sex or material needs. Reproductive needs, yes, but there are other ways to fulfil sexual needs that don't require men. Material needs, women can also take care of themselves if they work and earn money. Some women may use men for those things but the majority don't.
shareWell, technically women don't need men for sex or material needs.
I see. But if I see your point technically, then what you call sex isn't sex either. I would call that unnatural stimulation of genitals resulting orgasm. According to some sex experts SEX means sex involving male and female genitals. Sex is so ****ed up these days that you can't even define what is sex anymore because of the broad LGBT movement.
Some women may use men for those things but the majority don't.
Then what do those majority of women do? Do they all have a high paying job? Do they all go to a man when they need a baby? Definitely not.
I think your judgement is clouded.
If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend! share
what you call sex isn't sex either. I would call that unnatural stimulation of genitals resulting orgasm. According to some sex experts SEX means sex involving male and female genitals. Sex is so ****ed up these days that you can't even define what is sex anymore because of the broad LGBT movement.
So, you're saying that lesbians don't have real sex? What about gay guys if sex is 'involving male and female genitals'. Sex is not *beep* up these days and you can define sex, it just has a broader definition. 'I would call that unnatural stimulation of genitals resulting orgasm.' so you're saying that oral sex or masturbation are unnatural? My judgement is clearly not the one that's clouded.
Then what do those majority of women do? Do they all have a high paying job?
You don't need a high paying job to earn a living and buy yourself things. Do all men have a high paying job? No. Neither do all women. They all still work and earn their own money though.
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so you're saying that oral sex or masturbation are unnatural?
Not saying they are unnatural but not REAL sex either. What I meant by saying unnatural is the way lesbians please each other. So do gays.
You see the semen is meant to go inside the vagina and not into anus or someone's mouth. It's purpose is to impregnate the female. If you still can't figure out what pure sex is then I can't help.
If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend! share
Not saying they are unnatural but not REAL sex either. What I meant by saying unnatural is the way lesbians please each other. So do gays.
But you're contradicting yourself there. 'They're not unnatural, but not real sex. Unnatural is the way lesbians please each other and gays' If oral and masturbation aren't unnatural then how can lesbians and gay guys be unnatural when they do it to each other? Or are you just saying that you think homosexual sex is unnatural? Sex covers a whole range of things. Those things are included and are not unnatural. Homosexual sex is not unnatural either.
You see the semen is meant to go inside the vagina and not into anus or someone's mouth. It's purpose is to impregnate the female.
So every time people have sex and use protection, is that also unnatural? It's supposed to go in and impregnate the female, right? Otherwise, it's not real sex. Also, I really hope you never ask a girl to do anal or to give you a blow job because you clearly think those acts are unnatural, and it would be incredibly hypocritical of you if you were saying they were unnatural when same sex couples do them but fine when you do them. share
Sex covers a whole range of things.
It does now. Because man is an intelligent specie & it likes to explore.
So every time people have sex and use protection, is that also unnatural?
It can be unnatural "Technically". Here the same technicality applies by which a woman doesn't necessarily need a man to please herself. Because the man doesn't necessarily need his semen to go inside the girl's vagina yet still enjoy the "thrusting" while using a protection. Why are teenagers advised to use condom while having sex? Because they are unaware (or careless) about the consequences of having sex the "natural way". So they are advised to use an artificial object to prevent themselves from becoming teenage parents.
I really hope you never ask a girl to do anal or to give you a blow job because you clearly think those acts are unnatural, and it would be incredibly hypocritical of you if you were saying they were unnatural when same sex couples do them but fine when you do them.
I never said I don't do it because I think they are unnatural. Man itself has created it's own way against nature since it discovered fire.
Just asking, if a man uses a sex doll to please himself, would you call it sex? because sex covers a whole range of things?
When a man or a girl masturbates, would you call it sex because it's NATURAL?
Giving you a simple example to simplify this SEX thing you are confused about.
Take food for example. Do you know what food is? By definition food is "Any substance that can be metabolized by an animal to give energy and build tissue" or "Any solid substance (as opposed to liquid) that is used as a source of nourishment".
Food's purpose is to give energy to body and to make our immune system stronger. But if food's purpose is that simple, then why do we need so many cuisines? Why so many dishes? Cavemen could eat raw fruits and meat!! Why are there trillions of methods of cooking and preparing a item? Because of "Taste". Which has no relation to the body's nutritional requirement. yet we cook everything and garnish them with so many things that makes it appetizing.
The same way goes for SEX. It is garnished by foreplay acts, blow jobs, anal thrusting and all those things you can include here. But the real purpose of sex is to reproduce which includes male and female genitalia. For men/women reproduction isn't a necessity but the satisfaction of sexual anxiety is (Because man is so clever to avoid nature's rules in all aspects).
The only difference between food and sex is while food still provides nutrition to our body fulfilling it's "REAL" purpose even after cooked and garnished, sex doesn't necessarily fulfill it's real purpose with the mixture of foreplay acts or the "other" things you repeatedly and proudly call natural.
If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend! share
He actually does speak the truth and in their have even been studies and rules in male/female relationship in the animal kingdom which support this.
1. A woman will only get with a man if she can derive benefits. If no benefits can be obtain then NO association will take place.
2. All benefits a woman has received from a man in the past does not at all weigh or affect her being with you in the future.
Nathan had a horror house of female androids he used and abused for his own purposes. And your takeaway from this movie is that Ava is the monster?
shareThat's what I was thinking, too. He disregards the cruelty and the sex programming and the making of women machines as nothing more than sex objects and machines, using them for housekeeping and sex and fun and observation.....and he thinks the female robot is the evil one.
shareOne or two bad experiences with a member of the opposite sex means that they're all evil, everyone knows that.
shareI think if someone is having bad experiences with all women then the problem is in the mirror. Women are all wildly different(as are men) and no two ladies are going to react the same to any given experience.
The reason she had the power in this movie was because she had his search history. She could predict his behavior. Oh and he couldn't lie to her.
As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
I think if someone is having bad experiences with all women then the problem is in the mirror.
I completely agree! I hoped the sarcasm came across in my response. If someone is always having bad experiences with potential girlfriends/boyfriends then the problem lies with the common factor, them. I don't think people like that realise how ridiculous, petty, and sad they come off when they keep blaming an entire gender for things that go wrong in their life and never try to take any responsibility. If every single woman (or man) has left you then surely you must be able to look and see something that you may have done to cause at least some of them. share
It did I was just agreeing and adding to what you had said previously
As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
Those two dudes you're talking to... they have issues.
Anyway. I love thinking about Nathan and Ava's character (not characters... character). I see neither as sociopaths or psychopaths. Although Nathan is highly unlikable to me. If either of them are out of line with the "opposite sex" however it's Nathan. Somehow mistreating machines, even if it turns out they can't feel, since they are in human form, it's a mark against Nathan's character. Of course Nathan could respond back by saying that AI (the goal), does not portend feelings (bots feel pain), and that his fembots give him a harmless, halodeck-like release for his frustrations.
I did not feel that Ava was out of line with Nathan. I pointed out my reasoning in another thread, so will just summarize... Ava did not kill Nathan until he forced her to. She did not attack him when he first appeared at the end of the hall. She asked if he would let her out again if she complied with his order to return to her room. Only when she determined he was lying (micro expressions) did she cut in plan B with Kyoko and attack. Just as most humans would if they were locked in a cage. You would kill your captor if it was the only chance for freedom. Right?
Locking Caleb in the room though. Uggh. This is the only scene in the movie I haven't come up with a theory for (not that any of my theories are correct). Some where else someone suggested it may have been symbolic; like the genie is out of the bottle.
Oh. I'm a dude.
I agree with your points, the movie makes it clear that the actions of all these characters are not clearly black and white, good or bad. They all have their own selfish reasons for doing the things they do (even Caleb) but just because those reasons are selfish that doesn't automatically make them necessarily wrong or bad and, at the very least, I'd say that everyone's actions and thoughts in the movie are somewhat understandable even if we don't agree with them.
Locking Caleb in the room though. Uggh. This is the only scene in the movie I haven't come up with a theory for (not that any of my theories are correct). Some where else someone suggested it may have been symbolic; like the genie is out of the bottle.
The genie out of the bottle theory is a good one, my personal thoughts on this was that she either A) assumed that Caleb was just like Nathan and was using her just like Nathan was and therefore didn't trust him enough to go with him, B) she thought that if she left with him, there was always a chance that he'd expose her at some point and that she would never truly be free, or C) because she thought that Caleb had an expectation that by helping her, she would be leaving with him and spending her life with him and she didn't want to feel trapped to or by another man. Those were just my thoughts on it though, I could also be wrong. This movie leaves a lot up to the viewer to decide/work out for themselves and I really like that about it. share
Hi. Thanx for replying. Good thoughts. And agreed for sure... not wrong or bad.
That last point of yours about the movie allowing for personal interpretation... many people I've talked to over the years regarding movies in general feel that way. For some reason I always gravitate toward wanting to understand what was in the film makers mind... what is the film trying to tell us? Neither point of view is "wrong or bad". ;>
And even my penchant for seeing into the mind of the filmmaker is mitigated by the fact that I've come to understand, from listening to writers and directors talk about their movies, like on the commentary track, that filmmakers often do not fully understand their own creation. That is not a slight to the filmmaker. Rather, it suggests that the creative process taps into a source outside ourselves. If that assertion makes sense.
I just finished viewing Ex Machina for the third time, and of course a few more things clicked in. One thing that jumped out is in the last few frames at the end of the film, besides the Plato man-viewing-shadows-in-a-cave references, when Ava is people watching, she suddenly disappears. One frame she is there, the next frame she is gone. She 'disappears into the crowd'.
So robot or not, the inference seems to be that Ava will somehow assimilate. And I interpret the passage as a suggestion that, at some level at least, robots can be made human. The wall between the two is thinner than some may imagine, one significant reason being that humans are often robot like in our daily interactions with the world and with people. If you've seen 'What the Bleep Do We Know' you'd have an idea of what I'm saying.
But again, to balance my assertions... Ex Machina to me at this point is simply a catalyst for the kinds of reflections and conversations people are having after viewing the movie. The notion of true artificial intelligence and androids being indistinguishable from humans is pretty far off. I personally worry more about a world that looks like 'Brazil' than a world that looks like 'Blade Runner'.
So robot or not, the inference seems to be that Ava will somehow assimilate. And I interpret the passage as a suggestion that, at some level at least, robots can be made human. The wall between the two is thinner than some may imagine, one significant reason being that humans are often robot like in our daily interactions with the world and with people.
Oooh, I like that idea!
My favourite thing about movies and all art forms and forms of entertainment (TV shows, books, songs, etc.) is the fact that everyone will look at them or watch them or hear them and they'll see and feel something different. That's why I find discussions on them so fascinating because I like to see how other people's minds interpreted something compared to mine. I find the OP of this thread's interpretation (and the interpretation of a couple of other posters' that have agreed with him) of this film somewhat concerning but if that's what they took away from it then that's the way their mind decided to view it. share
...because I like to see how other people's minds interpreted something compared to mine...
Interesting. I had a realization while reading your reply that my penchant for wanting to know the film maker had in mind is, at one level, just getting the take of someone else regarding the film.
btw- just to let you know, your use of sarcasm in this thread comes through quite well.
Cheers
share
or D, it was using him as a tool to escape, once he was no longer usefull he was eliminated out of the equasion. I don't think "she" is a true AI, it is a clever chatbot and riddlesolver, as it was programmed to be.
shareWell, of course. The psychotic, alcoholic, egomaniac can't be the monster. He was just having fun with some technology. That machine he created though, what an ungrateful bitch. I mean it's almost like she didn't want to spend her life as a compliant sex slave.
shareThe post below from another user, posted before yours, is poignant:
"This movie was made to illustrate how the opposite sexes use and manipulate each other hellooooo. Nathan uses his robots as sex slaves essentially. This represents the way men use women for physical needs and don't show proper respect. Ava seduces and flirts with Caleb to help her escape. She manipulates him, using her sexuality and looks into getting what she wants. Then she kicks him to the curb in the end which represents how women do that often in the world"
To look at it as either/or is simplifying it too much. There are unsavory actions from both sexes and a fair assessment recognizes the uncomfortable truths coming from either extreme.
I was being sarcastic in my response. I'd hoped it would come across but it's hard to convey sarcasm through text. My point was towards the fact that there are a lot of posters on this thread (and on this board) that are completely focusing on Ava and the fact she did something nasty to Caleb and Nathan, and are completely ignoring everything that Nathan has done. I'm in agreement with your point, to say that one has done something wrong and not the other is incorrect.
There are unsavory actions from both sexes and a fair assessment recognizes the uncomfortable truths coming from either extreme.
I agree with this, but I do think a lot of people on here don't seem to realise that it's portraying the extremes and that it's not saying that that's what all men and women are like. share
Nathan had a horror house of female androids he used and abused for his own purposes
Can you abuse an oven? Microwave? If I say to siri "*beep* you" am I hurting her feelings? If I kick my computer is it domestic abuse? share
"female androids"?
Female in appearance but not female in any other sense.
They were machines, that's all.
This movie was made to illustrate how the opposite sexes use and manipulate each other hellooooo. Nathan uses his robots as sex slaves essentially. This represents the way men use women for physical needs and don't show proper respect. Ava seduces and flirts with Caleb to help her escape. She manipulates him, using her sexuality and looks into getting what she wants. Then she kicks him to the curb in the end which represents how women do that often in the world.
shareI think that Nathan was trying to re-create EVE or the perfect woman/mate. He was testing the AI to see if the robots had free will to love him/man
shareSee it from Ava's perspective. A.I. locked up for tests and Nathan's sexual desires. The first human Ava deals with, turns out to be a crazy sociopath, so logically Ava concludes that all "men" are the same. (Kind of like in your case)
Caleb falls in love with Ava, because she's designed according to Caleb's fantasies of the perfect fit.
Let's face it! Caleb is horny for Ava and Ava made "herself" desirable enough to convince him to save "her".
He doesn't seem to care much for Kyoko, whether or not she's too a victim.
P.S. If you got rejected or heartbroken by 99% of all women, then you should consider men. Perhaps you'll hit a homerun. There're still 100% of them.
lmao
sharei agree if you keep getting rejected and think all woman are evil it is time to start dating men
share#jdiz115
Oh,please. Another dude who's had one bad experience with women and hates all women for it. Grow the hell up already,please.
Are women basically robots? Let me check.
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