MovieChat Forums > Freedom Writers (2007) Discussion > The Holocaust is important to know but

The Holocaust is important to know but

posted 15 years ago by historyinink
15 replies | jump to latest

First of all, I’m glad she talked about the Holocaust. It’s something everyone should learn about. It’s a horrific thing that should have never happened. And it was great for the students to relate to so they can see how much hate can escalate. But why not talk about slavery too? And the people who fought against it. If you ask me, these kids lived in a kind of ‘mental slavery’. So teach them heroes like Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman, and intellectuals like WEB Dubois.

Don’t get me wrong, I admire people who stood up for Jews and helped them to hide from the Nazis. But it’s nice to have heroes who look like you as well, especially when you’re Black because there's ignorant people who try to make you feel like all YOUR people are criminals. Keep these students from growing up and thinking ‘all white people are good and no other person of any other race has made a difference in history’. Even when she talked about the Freedom Riders, she showed the brave thing that White guy did (forgot his name) for equal rights as if Black people weren’t doing anything to fight for their own equal rights too. What about Malcolm X? Dr. King? Fannie Lou Hammer? Those names should have come up too.

[–] FarnsworthFan89 15 years ago

I get your point and while I am sure it was discussed, the Holocaust discussion started after the drawing was passed around, and Erin was able to use examples from the Holocaust to help prove her point of how one drawing can cause a horrific wipeout. The fact that no one knew anything about it except for Ben obviously made it the main focus of the movie because it really is something that is so interesting to learn about.

Keep these students from growing up and thinking ‘all white people are good and no other person of any other race has made a difference in history’.

Listen to Eva's speech and her overall attitude toward white people....none of them thought that and while we didn't see much of the civil rights movement, we did see it being discussed and that alone proves white people can be bad.

when she talked about the Freedom Riders, she showed the brave thing that White guy did (forgot his name) for equal rights as if Black people weren’t doing anything to fight for their own equal rights too.

She showed them a video of the civil rights movement including several key figures. We learn about this brave white freedom rider from Ben, the only white student, to show his own courage in staying and not running when he easily could have...it wasn't her commentary we heard but his and what you got from that point was completely wrong.

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[–] Fr3cklez0486 14 years ago

I Think that what we have to remember here is that this is based on a true story. She not only taught them their Freshmen and Sophomore years, but she fought to teach them on their Junior and Senior year. We only got to see her teaching Freshmen and Sophomore. I'm sure she taught all about those other important figures as the years went on OR she might have talked about it Freshmen and Sophomore year too but they just didn't put it in the film. I think that the director wanted to stick to one major topic so that the audience wasn't overwhelmed with all the information being thrown at us and I think that the Holocaust was chosen because none of the students were Jewish, but they can definitely relate to them when it comes to trying to survive the violence that they had to go through every day.... and plus, they did show a few clips of the civil rights movement... I think it was in like a montage or something.

"Since we cannot change reality, let us change the eyes which see reality."
-Nikos Kazantzakis

[–] historyinink 14 years ago

They could have at least spent some time on slavery so they could learn about Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass, and so on. That way in accordance with Jewish heroes they could also have heroes that looked like them that survived unspeakable struggles.

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[–] historyinink 14 years ago

I'm glad slavery was discussed in real life as well as homosexuality. (There's still a way it could have been added in without making it three hours long, ie. putting it in a montage). I disagree with your view of the Holocaust being worse than slavery in any way. They were both unspeakable evils. And though the Holocaust was more recent, I and many other people were equally horrified at what happened to Blacks in this country. I've even had White teachers who became teary-eyed when they taught slavery in class, especially about Blacks being considered not even human. I, too become teary eyed to think about all slaves had to endure; the rapes, the beatings, the lynchings, watching their family and their children sold away to endure the same evils. Slavery was an elongated period of torture and horror. And just like Jews, their lives meant nothing. Holocaust was equally terrible but to say it was worse-I wouldn't go that far.

I'm outraged the Holocaust could ever happen but I'm equally outraged that slavery could have ever existed. I think slavery is even more worrisome because of its hypocrisy. In a dictatorship, you expect those kinds of horrors. But to live in a seemingly democratic society and have such things happen-that's what's very unnerving. It makes you wonder what's keeping it from happening again? And it shows you it's not as simple as good versus evil, sometimes seemingly good people can do evil things-they're not always an obvious villain like Hitler was.

So, I think your point of Holocaust is arguable but I understand your other points about the movie.

[–] parissmiles 14 years ago

As for the movie, I think it was important that the Holocaust was what discussed. Yes, slavery was an unspeakable horror and I get angry every time I think about it. However, not all slave owners were horrible people. Slavery as an institution is immoral, but not necessarily violent. And please don't think I'm ok with slavery. I just mean that the violence was not across the board. So it's difficult to make any kind of judgment on the degree of horror between the two.
It's just that the Holocaust related to their situation more, because it was about one race trying to wipe out another one. Also, slavery was part of America from the beginning. Not to say it's ok, but there's less to learn about hate from the beginning of slavery because it was one group of people discovering another group of people and bringing them into a location to be less than human. The Holocaust was about two groups of people who had initially been able to live together peacefully (like the Long Beach community before 1992) and the beginning of racial hate that was encouraged by newspapers and drawings and claims that the other race didn't belong and became the Holocaust. At first, she wasn't trying to show them awesome people who did something right. She had to first get their attention by showing how far their war could escalate if they let it.
So, thematically for the movie (and just strictly for the beginning of this exploration, so for their Freshman and Sophomore years) the Holocaust makes a wonderful area of study.
Also, another thing I just thought of is that none of them were Jews. If she got up there and the first thing she talked about was slavery of African Americans, all the others (the Asians and Latinos) wouldn't have been as easily reached because it was about a race of people they hated already. They could unify around a group of people than none of them hated (the Jews) and it made it easier for them to identify as a group, rather than splitting the class into the Blacks and Everyone Else.
I'm glad to know that she didn't ignore slavery and Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman in later years. But I maintain that the Holocaust was more vital to get across to them (especially cause none of them but Ben knew about it) at the beginning.

[–] jshjamaarx3 14 years ago

Don't ya' remember what you learned in Freshman English? It was a wide variety of topics being discussed about literature.

[–] novastar_6 13 years ago

Well it makes sense to me. Everybody knows about slavery, NOBODY tries to say 'oh that never happened, it's all a big conspiracy', unlike what IS happening with the Holocaust, we have all these idiots saying no this didn't happen, there were no gas chambers, it's all made up, the pictures, the news footage, all faked. And it gets worse when you touch on the Jasenovac concentration camp in Serbia, that's a place and period of the Holocaust nobody remembers or wants to talk about; probably because it was not in Germany and the main focus wasn't just on Jews, but it was the biggest concentration camp with only 80 victims who lived to tell about it and they had some of the worst methods of killing people there, sawing heads off, bashing skulls apart with mallets, cutting heads off, they slit 2000 throats a day and had a special glove knife made for the job. THIS is stuff that NOBODY is talking about in school, and why? Because it's unpleasant? Because it's ugly? Because it's true? Horrible as slavery was, NOBODY is going to get up and say it never happened, that the pictures of the lynchings are faked, which is odd because slavery is further back when there wasn't as much photographic evidence of what was going on whereas we have thousands of hours showing the horrors of what went on in the concentration camps.

[–] Ithilfaen 12 years ago

I think you missed the point. Several points in fact. Not all these students were black. Some were latinos, some were asian. So when you say "heroes who look like them", and you only quote black people, you're forgetting about half of the students.
Also the point was to show them that courage and victims and bullies come in every color and shape. It wasn't to empower them through positive portrayal of any particular race or creed. She was trying to show them that by being against one another, they were being against themselves as a group.
She gave them a book about a gang member. Maybe he wasn't a big name but she thought they could relate to him.
Finally, that was the beginning of the story. It was a 90 mn movie taking place over 2 school years. What makes you think she didn't talk about Dr. King or Frederick Douglas? It just started that way. You're only assuming that she never did. She didn't talk to them about Jews for 4 years. She gave them something to relate to beyond race or creed.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] CharlieTheMan 12 years ago

Over 60 million people died in WW2 and we still have to hear all this whining about the Holocaust? What about 25 million russians who were killed by Nazis?

Meh...

Ours is the Fury!

[–] rmontro 9 years ago

She chose the holocaust to make her point because none of the students were Jewish. I think there were black, Cambodian, and Latino gangs. If she would have tried to use slavery, she would have appeared to have been taking the blacks' side. By using Jewish people she was able to use a neutral example that all the students could relate to.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I think it was chosen for 2 reasons:

1) The main issue was that the Hispanic kid (forgot his name) drew a racist pic of the black kid with big lips. The point she was making is that such images, can lead to serious issues relating to racism and discrimination, which is what made her angry. She was referring to ALL races descriminating against each other. Not just the Nazi's against the Jews.

2) The point of reading "The Diary of Anne Frank" ,inviting Meip Gies to the school, and going to the Museum of Tolerence was to show these the kids that MANY people face struggles but remain strong, hold onto hope, and do the right thing. ( Hense why Eva decided to tell the truth in court and turn her boyfriend in despite the risks of her getting beat up.)