MovieChat Forums > The Wind That Shakes the Barley (2007) Discussion > Question for non-Catholic northern Irish

Question for non-Catholic northern Irish

posted 9 years ago by saint_pat
12 replies | jump to latest

It's understandable that so many Protestants don't want unification with the south. The south today isn't even really independent, it's more a case of "rule by Rome" instead of "rule by London". I wouldn't want to live in state where my rights are not respected.

What if the Republic of Ireland were to become secular though? Already the church's hold Ireland has weakened considerably. Suppose Ireland ditches the Catholic Church and becomes a secular state? Would you support a united Ireland?

For that matter, what if after independence Ireland had chosen to become secular instead of Catholic? Might the north have joined it? Might the civil war have been avoided?

[–] ecky-684-830837 9 years ago

MMmmm.I understand where you come from.By no means has the North been afraid of the catholic religion.
I don't know about you but I nave no truck with religion.
But the civil war was before independence

[–] saint_pat 9 years ago

Are you Northern Irish? My understanding is the north didn't join the republic largely because Protestants didn't want to live in a Catholic state where their rights were not respected.
My question is what if the republic had been secular instead? Might the partition of Ireland, the civil war, The Troubles all been avoided? Would northern Protestants accept a united Ireland if it was secular instead of Catholic?

[–] ecky-684-830837 9 years ago

Yes I am from the North. I've been reading a lot of Irish history lately,and the question you ask is not an easy one to answer.A certain percentage of the population would never want a united Ireland no matter what incentives were offered even if the country was secular.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mikeyg24 9 years ago

My understanding is the north didn't join the republic largely because Protestants didn't want to live in a Catholic state

They didn't have to. The Anglo Irish treaty didn't force them to hitch their cart to either Britain or a united independent Catholic state.

When you consider the fact that even to this day they call themselves Loyalist, have a Union Flag hanging off every tree and lamp post in Protestant areas and annually hold marches commemorating William of Orange's victory at the Boyne, one could be forgiven for thinking their motivation was more than mere consideration at becoming second class citizens. Protestants have lived happily in the Republic for decades.

24/04/1916

[–] IndyCelt 9 years ago

the civil war was before independence

No, it was after.
Independence: December 1921;
Civil War: 1922-23.

[–] ecky-684-830837 9 years ago

But was the country,even though it was self governing,still under British dominion and called the Irish Free State.6 Dec 1922.
The civil war was from Jun 22 to May 23.Independence may have been declared in 1919 but was not recognised be everyone.
The dates in this affair seem to overlap.

[–] IndyCelt 9 years ago

The south today isn't even really independent, it's more a case of "rule by Rome" instead of "rule by London"

That's not true "today", hasn't been for decades. There are still backward rural areas where religion is important, but any question of "rule" has generally been kicked out long ago. The Catholic Church scandals of the 80s and later opened the eyes of all but the most stubborn, and coincided with the expansion of an educated [as distinct from schooled] populace.

Don't base your view on census or other official info, which indeed makes the country look like a Catholic stronghold. In practice, church attendance has been dropping for decades, and is under 20% now in Dublin, with much lower figures in some areas.

The 'rulers' in Ireland these days are the same as in many other Western countries. Wall St and their counterparts, the rich and the powerful. Let's hope some of the benefit of being the fastest growing economy in the EU filters down to the ordinary people. Rome is only lip service, not an important factor.

[–] gorbals406 9 years ago

Let's hope some of the benefit of being the fastest growing economy in the EU filters down to the ordinary people.

I love a guy with a good sense of humour. You're not holding your breath, are you? 

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 8 years ago

Protestant Irish in N Ireland aren't Irish ethnically though, they are British sent to Ireland to supplant the ethnic Irish. Therefore, they will never want to unite with the Irish because they are British by heart and blood.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Identities can shift over the centuries. "Irish" has come to be a description of nationality rather than ethnicity. The descendants of medieval Normans in Ireland simply consider themselves "Irish" today. The Society of United Irishmen, which sought independence from Britain in the late 18th century, had a lot of protestants, including Presbyterians largely of Scottish descent. Wolfe Tone, one of their founding members, was himself a protestant (Anglican), descended from French Huguenots. Many Ulster Scots protestants who immigrated to the Americas simply identified as "Irish."

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

The civil war of 1922-1923 had to do with Ireland's status as "free state," a dominion of the British Empire, vs. fully independent republic, and not a question of religious vs. secular society. Also, the Catholic Church lost a lot of influence in the republic years before you wrote your post. The more pertinent matter in recent years would be the influence from Brussels as a member of the European Union. With respect, I believe you may be getting some of your history mixed up.