Well that's depressing. Even when I read about all the speculation, I still couldn't wrap my head around it. But I guess I understand it. Crowley's storylines for the past two seasons have been atrocious. 😥
shareShame, a spin off with him and cas would have been cool.
shareI knew the minute he said "Bye boys" that was the end of the line for Mark Shepard. What a shame he went out in such a crappy episode. He deserved much better.
shareSuppose it makes sense.
What storylines could they do with Crowley seeing how they parked him for most of this season.
It is such a shame though, he was such a great character.
I agree, as I have said elsewhere it wouldn't surprise me if Mark asked to leave as his storylines have been crap for a while (rather like Cas ones IMO). I think it is their loss as he is a quality actor and could have brought much more to the table than they have given him. They have chosen to go with Lucifer - they really couldn't continue to have them both around as Lucifer would always be more powerful and again IMO that is a really stupid decision.
shareHow do you copy pictures when in Instagram right click on the mouse won't let me copy anything.
I am so gutted he's gone. So very unhappy. I love BOTH MARK's can't BOTH share HELL>>??
I agree, as I have said elsewhere it wouldn't surprise me if Mark asked to leave as his storylines have been crap for a while (rather like Cas ones IMO).
This was such a sad departure for him. He was sandwiched in between two big deaths and even now people aren't sure any of them are really dead. There was no fanfare for his death, no big articles or fan anger. People seemed way more upset by Mick and Eileen's death then Crowley's. Mark was with the show 8 years and deserved some recognition by the CW and the show runners. Dabb's favoritism of his pet characters has cost us a great member of this show. I totally understand why Mark wanted to move on and am disappointed with how little of a deal they made of his send off. The only one screwed worse was Ruth.
shareI was cringing and squirming with embarrassment at the scenes with the two Marks hopping on one foot and poking out tongues. What on earth has this show come to? Crowley was a fantastic character. Devilish, self-serving but fun. And Mark had loads of on screen chemistry with Jensen.
Nothing against Mark P - but Luci is way past his sell by date. He's just irritating now.
I never speculate about behind the scenes clashes, but I think there was one here. Crowley's departure came out of nowhere and he died without the fanfare he deserved. I speculate he complained about scripts and TPTB said 'ok you're dead... for sure this time. Clean out your trailer".
This is my conjecture only - don't quote me. But his sudden departure is awful suspicious. And he says something about no more Creation cons. Other characters have died but the actor continues to appear at cons.
I think it's terrible for Mark S. that we've gotten nothing from TPTB to say he's gone, no exit interview, just this tweet from Mark S. several days after the fact to say that he's gone. He's a talented man. I'm sure we'll see him in something else. I knew him from other things long before he joined Supernatural, but man, after the years he's spent on the show, and even meeting his wife because of the show, for him to go out like this just doesn't seem right.
Also, I think Dabb decided to make Lucifer his self-insert when he brought him back, and we're stuck with him until the end of the show, or until Dabb moves on, whichever happens first.
I think the comment with regard to his charity release kind of sums up a lot about what he is thinking about the current TPTB
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUcQeMJFIAp/
But that might be me reading more into this than I should.
But agree Lucifer is a Dabb insert just like Metatron was really a Carver one in the end and that means there is no space for our King of Rotten to grow or his mum and in a way even though he went with honour, part of me Crowley should have had half a season dedicated to his eventual demise (a la Bobby) not sandwiched between the death of his mother and Cas. Part of me hopes Mark S will be back in some form but if he isn't all the best and I hope he stays engaged with fans.
Though thinking about it, if the show is winding down, like it or not when it comes to the core 4 getting work Mark S is the one that will probably be most likely to randomly pop up in many many many other shows.
I also suspect that he was not renewed as a regular. I think the conflict over which Mark is a regular helps show the direction of the show in 13. Mark S was associated with Dean and usually paired with Dean. Mark P is associated and more often paired with Sam.
shareA fan tweeted asking if he was doing anymore SPN cons and he answered "No". Regardless of how TPTB and Mark felt about each other the FANS deserved better. What a weird awful way to end an iconic character.
shareHe said he wouldn't be doing anymore Creation cons, but he will still be doing plenty of other cons in 2018. My guess is that once his contract with Creation is up at the end of 2017, Creation would give him a lot less money if he's no longer on the show.
shareHe's also tweeted this more recently. I think he wants out of the Creation con circuit for some reason, and it'll allow him to do these other cons. Maybe it'll actually be cheaper to see him at one of the others, so it won't be an entirely bad thing?
https://twitter.com/Mark_Sheppard/status/867432378553081856
It looks like some of the news outlets are finally recognizing that Mark really is leaving the show. Of course it is all based off his tweets which is surreal. This is one week after the season finale. Again, it says a lot when no one believes any of your big deaths were real.
shareIt's also pretty crappy that there has been no word on the matter from the showrunners. Nothing along the lines of "We'll miss Mark, we loved writing for Crowley, blah, blah, blah ...", regardless of how insincere it might be. No one except Mark is saying anything about an actor who has been around since season five.
The whole situation stinks.
I thought this tweet from John Rogers to Mark Sheppard was interesting.
https://twitter.com/jonrog1/status/867059806388998144
There is another tweet between Jim Michaels and Mark. Jim was making it sound like Mark could be back but Mark said there are no plans to have him back. https://twitter.com/Mark_Sheppard/status/867566400348356608
shareI thought that this tweet exchange was quite brutal, Mark seems to be saying in no uncertain terms NO and I AM NOT coming back. There are a few people who still believe that Mark is playing a game and trying to fool fans into believing that is him gone but he isn't - if that is the case then he is going too far in my opinion. I believe that he is gone and that it was not a mutually agreed going as there does seem to be bitterness in his tweets. I certainly don't blame him, there has been no input from TPTB or for that matter Jensen/Jared which after 8 years? and being an iconic character does seem odd. Both his death especially and Ruth's were terrible for such important characters in the series.
shareThanks for posting this. I just saw it and was wondering if anyone here had seen it yet.
shareFrom Mark's reply I guess I am not reading too much into Mark's comment on his campaign release.
Did Dabb and Singer not sit down and talk to him about what was happening? It is at least polite.
"Did Dabb and Singer not sit down and talk to him about what was happening? It is at least polite."
I don't believe those two incompetents did at all. Dabb had no idea what to do with Crowley, gave him a boring story at the end then just cast him away like used garbage. When they promoted Mark P. Mark S. probably saw the writing on the wall. Then after the horrible send off they gave him, I can see why he is upset. The dead silence from everyone is very telling.
Yeah the silence is telling.
I think we have to face facts the show is winding down and TPTB are milking what they can get. Singer has been treating the show as his person pension fund for years and a way to keep his wife off his back as I doubt he knows what she writes and Dabb just wants to make a splash.
The only plan I can see is that at some point last year at a CW showrunners meet this happened
The 100 team walked in - 'Well we pissed a load of cast and fans off'
Singer and Dabb - 'hold my beer'
The 100 team walked in - 'Well we pissed a load of cast and fans off'
Singer and Dabb - 'hold my beer'
From what Clueless said about what was done to Misha, I wouldn't be surprised if they just told Mark that they weren't renewing his regular contract and didn't give him any more info. If that is the case then you can't blame the man for getting pissy about it because this has devolved very quickly.
As for Ruth, well without Crowley, Dabb probably wanted to clean house and get rid of Rowena even though there was miles of story they could have done with her. Though I wouldn't blame Ruth that if they did go to her for an onscreen death that once she saw the script for Rowena's death she turned round and told them to shove it because the implied violence of Rowena's death well that was uncalled for and brought absolutely nothing to the episode as we already knew Lucifer was a violent dick. And the fact they left it in I have to question especially coming hot on the heels of Mary's brainwashing and begging on her knees to die and Eileen's turn as a doggie chew toy when the show is now in a 8pm time slot.
So if there is no alt Rowena even if there is the opportunity, I would put all the blame on Singer and Dabb.
I can't wait for the Phoenix con. Ruth and Mark will be there and I am equally interested in what she has to say. This was handled incredibly bad and it affects the whole show. Jensen has said repeatedly how he stays on because of how fun the set is and how everyone is family particularly how much he liked working with Mark. Also, when it stops feeling that way its time to go. Screwing over actors who are friends with the stars does not make for a happy set.
shareOh I'm so glad we get one more con with them. I hope they don't cancel and spill all the tea! The way they were treated was disgraceful and just wrong. So angry about it.
shareI don't know. Misha said he was told 7 weeks before they finished filming that Cas was going to be killed. They then let him stew in that for a while before telling him he'd be back next season, because he said at JIBCon that only found out much more recently that he'd be back. That doesn't seem very nice.
I also think that if they mishandled that, they probably mishandled Mark, and he does have a right to be angry if he truly through he was a part of some family they all talk about the show being BTS. His most recent tweet to Jim Michaels does seem like he's tired of all the b.s. and is telling TPTB to stop screwing with fans by giving them false hope.
That is out of order if that is the way they treated Misha and I'm betting they told him he'd be back because they'd written the Scooby Doo episode and they needed him for dialogue.
They've mishandled all of this really badly. Jim Micheals trying to do PR clean up on Twitter isn't going to help either, it comes off as smarmy to the fans, not to mention making it even less likely that they can go cap in hand to Mark S and ask him if he would like to do something without one party or the other looking like idiots. Because even though it seems even though there is a bit of bitterness in his tweets and comments Mark S has been upfront and honest about where his head is at. And why shouldn't he be? It at least means he doesn't have to field uncomfortable questions at conventions about if he is coming back. Also like it or not Mark S does have the CV behind him not to be beholden to Warner Bros as much as the other 3 are. Up until Crowley he jumped shows so much he was essentially the Lt Munch of genre shows and I can't see there is anything to stop him going back to that.
As for Jared and Jensen, well isn't Jensen not directing this year when it was announced he would because of 'scheduling' conflicts with the brewery opening? That I'm sorry is a pretty weak excuse to my ears as he would have known about what time the brewery was opening.
It sounds like TPTB refused to give him the first filming slot like they did the other times or he just said 'nope, not playing' either way it sounds like things BTS aren't as happy as they once were and we may have to accept season 13 maybe the last.
That is out of order if that is the way they treated Misha and I'm betting they told him he'd be back because they'd written the Scooby Doo episode and they needed him for dialogue.
It sounds like TPTB refused to give him the first filming slot like they did the other times or he just said 'nope, not playing' either way it sounds like things BTS aren't as happy as they once were and we may have to accept season 13 maybe the last.
And this makes me sad.
shareIs this why all of a sudden Jensen is hinting at doing 6 episode slots. As fans asked at Jibcon if they still wanted to do a Movie? Are they getting tired of doing the show? Just seems strange they've suddenly changed direction?
The cast and crew seem to still be a happy family but with the problems being caused by Dabb, Singer and company, I'll bet the work environment isn't what it used to be. All supposition but based on anecdotal evidence.
shareMight be, there seems to be a lot of drama right now and real negativity among the fans. They really seem to love their characters and may honestly want to go on for years just not at 23 episodes a pop.
shareWhen did he hint this?
And if there is this much of a change in direction then someone at CW has to sit Dabb and Singer down and find out what the hell has happened to cause this many problems on such a happy set and in such a tightly knit fandom.
And it can't be just problems with the writing this season. We didn't have whispers of these sorts of problems in season 7
He talked about it at JibCon the last convention.
I missed that.
Was that in terms of mini series or proper 'seasons' in sort of the old UK sense.
I think he called it mini block of six or eight episodes. But that does resemble our UK format for some shows.
Maybe it would be better.
Remember season 3, 13 episodes with little filler and a tight cohesive season all due to the writers' strike.
Also we are evolving how we watch shows - we binge. People are getting less and less happy about filler in shows with myth arcs unless the arc is crap. So 6 to 8 episodes would have to have tighter writing that has to have a arc that has to be sorted pre filming and less chance for the neoptism duo to get their mits on things.
Also like it or not it would give the J's more freedom and even though they do seem to know they would be fighting the tide to get similar types of gigs it would give them the opportunity to go stretch their wings in terms of business ideas as well as going for other types of roles on and offscreen while knowing they can return to the show.
It is the golden age of TV, it would be great if Jensen and Jared got a chance to be more involved with it.
They started talking about this generally last year. Jensen said J2 and M2 talked about how long they felt the show would go on and how they had worked with some crew for 11 years. Then everyone started talking about 300 and how that might be the end but went on to assure everyone it was just a milestone. Then at conventions they started floating movies and 8 episode seasons when Stranger things took off. Then at Jibcon J2 both floated 6 eps.
To me, as the season progressed and after the Mark S. fiasco they have been cutting down expectations more and more. It looks like 13 is going to be a desperate push for a spin off so Jensen is probably looking down the road. Jobs like Supernatural aren't just lying around and just about every tv show made is coming back (like X Files). If they go to Mini-seasons then Jensen could schedule director time and maybe even get an executive producer role for approval of story lines. He could finally do some of those Grand Canyon shoots he wants. If he had that power then we could have a decent wrap up when the show really ends and not with what ever garbage Dabb and crew throw on the screen when it is over at the CW.
I like your thinking Aduty. It could really work. And I think the boys are really fans of the show and want it to run as long as it can as said before as long as the stories are good. I could see Jensen being a producer of the show, and that sure would give him some degree of power. It would also allow him more time to spend on his business project.
I was really against short seasons until I did the math. Netflix just released season 12 and this was the first year I haven't binge watched the entire season. Of 23 episodes there are only 5 I liked and would watch regularly. 2 Glynn episodes and 3 Yockey and even twigs and twine half annoys me with the Ketch and Mary drama. I couldn't bare to watch the rest and doubt I will in the future. So if J2 had more control and the budget was raised for location shoots and J2 are in every scene then even 6 episodes would be better then the 4 1/2 episodes I liked in a full year of season 12.
shareWell, Mark's definitely gone. I'm thinking it's a money issue. They wanted to demote him from Regular cast member I guess. He'll find another gig. He's a good solid actor.
It's shortsighted because I think the Crowley character had much more to offer storywise than Lucifer. But I guess season 13 will be Lucifer chasing and stealing his son with Sam and Dean in tow.
They kept the wrong Mark in my opinion.
They kept the wrong Mark in my opinion.