Rate 12.23 - All Along the Watchtower - Supernatural (2005) Discussion

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 8 years ago

Sooo . . . I guess this means we don't have to worry about the Winchesters being sidelined for other characters next year, right?

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[–] aduty1 (160) 8 years ago

Who's left? Get ready for Dabb to make us love Claire cause she's our spin off. He's so good at it too. Unless the Scooby Doo episode is for 12 episodes, I have full faith in the writers sidelining Dean.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

He can't make us love Claire anymore than he can make us love Mary. Most of my timeline is annoyed she's still alive but yeah, I expect plenty of Claire and possible Wayward shenanigans while the brothers are asleep somewhere next season.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

Castiel's death and Mary's disappearance won't last and I expect both of them to move into the bunker so I wouldn't count on the Winchesters not being sidelined.

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[–] PAForrest (158) 8 years ago

Oh, please, neither Lucille nor Mary are dead, so they're coming back. And we're likely to get more of alt!Bobby too.

Kelly's Gollum baby will heal Castiel, and then they'll probably run off together having adventures of their own that the Winchesters aren't involved in - certainly not second-banana cape-holder sidekick Dean. The only nice thing about Castiel's temporary "death" is that Dean was allowed to be genuinely grief-stricken, FWIW.

And WTF was up with Dabb killing Rowena off screen? Seriously?!? That maneuver screamed bad blood behind the scenes. You don't do that to a character/actor who has been around for a few years, not even give her a single on screen scene to die in, if it's not personal. Poor Ruth. She did not deserve that.

Lucky Mark, though. I will not believe that Mark himself isn't at least partly responsible for killing off Crowley. There's no way he could have been happy the last couple of years with the writing for his character, and he's too good a character actor to keep wasting his time and talent on this crapfest of a show. Unfortunately he couldn't impart his wisdom about moving on to Jensen Ackles.

I saw the tear thing referred to online as the glowing vagina. LOL! Now I cannot see it any other way. BWAH! ;)

Everything about this episode was hella stupid. I'm not sure I can even be mad about it - it's too stupid to get angry at. The only thing I'm angry about is Dabb shitting on Ruth.

But there's no question anymore that Dabb has lost whatever tiny modicum of talent he may have had at one time. He really needs to give up on the writing thing and get a real day job.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

And WTF was up with Dabb killing Rowena off screen? Seriously?!?

That really pissed me off. I liked Rowena, she deserved a better death. Can't believe they just showed charred legs and a lock of her hair. I just can't with this finale.

Sorry for the multiple comments but the HTML codes stop working when you use several of them in the same post.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

I saw the tear thing referred to online as the glowing vagina. LOL! Now I cannot see it any other way. BWAH! ;)

Everybody's calling it the glowing vagina and I'm in stitches over it. Had a nice exchange with CluelessDrifter about it too lol.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

Everything about this episode was hella stupid. I'm not sure I can even be mad about it - it's too stupid to get angry at. The only thing I'm angry about is Dabb shitting on Ruth.

I'm going back and forth between numb and confused. The more I think about the finale, the less I like it.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

He really needs to give up on the writing thing and get a real day job.

If only 😩

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[–] Idahoforspn (61) 8 years ago

I've decided I am still so ticked off at the writing for Dean this season, I can't be objective.

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[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

Copy-pasted from the 12.22 thread.

I liked it better because at least it had no cheap emotional manipulation surrounding Mary Winchester and the boys were in the middle of the action together. Now saying I liked it better doesn't mean I thought it was great, I just disliked it less than Part 1. I still hate that Rowena and Crowley are gone. Of course, Castiel's death won't stick and by some miracle, Lucifer will spare Mary's life.

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[–] cassiopeia (528) 8 years ago

I can't decide which ep I liked the least (more sounds too positive). I can't decide if A)this is Dabb's style for season finale's or B)He actually listened to all the criticism for S12 and decided to dump the whole season and start over. A) is what he did in S11 so I am afraid that when he can't figure how to get out of the mess he made he just dumps it all. I'm hoping for B) because that means he realizes no fans no show, no brothers no show and hopefully that means he realizes that he needs to keep the brothers in character.

That having been said I am satisfied that the Brits, Lucifer, Mary are gone. Hopefully for good. The Nephilim was kind of creepy looking.

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[–] Idahoforspn (61) 8 years ago

Mark P is a regular for next season I thought. So Luci is not gone unfortunately.

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[–] Icarus (78) 8 years ago

Well I said I would be extremely upset if Rowena died and she did and what a load of crap her death was. I have not seen any tweets from her after the one asking who was watching the final – I think it absolutely stinks that she was killed off like that – what an absolute insult to the actress. I am very disappointed that Jensen and Jared obviously signed off on this. I know that they hated the death of Charlie (I had begun to dislike her as she was such a Mary Sue in the end) so I had no problem personally with her death so why after that have they still been promoting the finale. I feel insulted in a way that Jared is busy promoting the AKF second round whilst we are all trying to get over the stupid unecessary deaths on our show – it seems totally the wrong time, but maybe on the otherhand it is the right time. I'm afraid the two episodes have sort of morphed into the one so not sure of the timing of what and where. I really thought the Dean speech about how Sam was ready was – excuse me but what the fck – it reminded me of the warehouse scene where Bobby was saying how wonderful Sam was and again it was – where on earth is this coming from and what and why is this being said. I don't believe that Jared is demanding that he be given all this adoration for his character but sometimes it is hard not to think surely they – the mysterious they – can see how over the top the writing is – and then Dean compounds this nonsense with all his talk about Sam with Mary – and on and on. I actually do like Sam, especially now, I don't mind that he gets kills more than Dean at the moment but I cannot stand all the hyperbole about Sam and I can't see why we are being hit in the face with it, it is not relevant to anything? I am going to miss Mark Shepherd but I would not be at all surprised if he asked out, he is a quality actor and will not be out of work, and I believe Cas will be back but back to Rowena – nasty nasty Dabb, I hope you get sacked and don't get any more

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[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 8 years ago

Yeah, poor Rowena. Poor Ruth.Can't even credit her in her final episode, because she didn't appear in it.Way to treat the woman who has been in the most episodes of Supernatural. (She beats Samantha Smith at 20 - I previously said 23, but that was wrong) We didn't even see Rowena after Family Feud. She could've been vital in this non-sensical, just plain bad, BMoL storyline, but did they use her for it once? Nope. Then she's unceremoniously killed off screen? Such a disservice.

On the other hand they also killed Crowley, who I'm pretty sure is staying dead. The difference is that he got a good death until it was overshadowed by Cas's death. To me, that was a disservice to Mark S., especially if our Cas isn't really dead for good (I'm starting to think he might be, since we got Cas's death scene in 12.12, and I'm thinking what happened to Alicia was foreshadowing for having an Alt!Cas around), but even if he is, it was a disservice to Mark S. to detract from Crowley's death with an even bigger death, because I'm pretty sure that Misha will be back next season either way, but I don't think Ruth or Mark will be.

I think what happened in 12.23 was a symptom of the rest of the season. Dabb seems to have a deep-seated disdain for the early seasons of the show. This season has not been an homage despite all the callbacks. It's been a deconstruction of the show's history. He's been systematically destroying one thing after another from the characters (Mary) to iconic items (Colt) all year. Might as well get rid of Cas and Crowley too, then reboot Cas, lose one of the big 4 and any ties to him, i.e. Rowena, to prove not everyone comes back, except Lucifer. Lucifer. Most people didn't ask to have him back and even more want him gone, but he won't go. You know why? Because Lucifer has become Dabb's-insert. Look at how Berens wrote him in RND, Lucifer's baby (new version of the show) has been coming 1/2 season, and Lucifer cleaned house last night (written by Dabb).

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