MovieChat Forums > Supernatural (2005) Discussion > Retrod Hits and Misses of Season 12

Retrod Hits and Misses of Season 12

posted 8 years ago by CluelessDrifter (884)
6 replies | jump to latest

Something in another thread got me thinking, and how many themes or previous storylines have been repackaged this season? Which ones were hits for you? Misses?

I'll start off.

Lucifer:
I think they have totally repackaged Lucifer. He was still roaming the Earth, but he had no purpose. Even he admitted he had no purpose . . . that is until the nephilim story started, and we have what feels like a redemption taking place (When he was in the cage, he was the same Lucifer we knew from season 5, threatening Sam, manipulating Sam, cage fighting with Sam, Dean, Cas, etc.. He got out of the cage, put Crowley in his place, walked around for a while, killed an angel, looked for weapons to use against Amara, threatened to kill Sam and then Dean in The Vessel, etc. He got taken by Amara and tortured, which I think was the start of his 'redemption' arc. He saw Chuck and worked through issues with him. He helped try to lock up Amara again. He roamed the earth looking for something to do after Chuck left with Amara. Then he found out he was going to be a father, got locked up by Crowley, and everyone is trying to kill his spawn.) I think this was a big miss.

Mary. I think that they've repackaged Mary. She's a hunter-extraordinaire now who never really gave up hunting. Everything we thought we knew about her seems to have been wrong. To me that's repackaging an old character by disregarding anything we knew about her past and making her entirely new, and I think they thought they could do it, nobody would notice, and it would seem fresh, because she's been dead all this time.

Psy kids. They brought back the psy kids for one episode. I'm guessing that this means that Monica was right in Salvation and Rosie had the gift before Azazel visited, or does it? Could Magda have been visited by Azazel? If Azazel started visiting mothers in the 70s to make deals for their kids in the 80s, disappeared, and was doing it again 20 years later with kids like Rosie, does that mean that he also did it in the 80s for kids in the 90s, and Magda fell into this age group? Is that why her Mom was so obsessed with evil, since if Magda was visited by Azazel, it means her Mom would've had to make a deal 10 years before she was born? I think this was a fail, because I don't expect them to touch on any of these things again. The only thing I find notable is that Ketch killed Magda, and Sam is/was a psy kid, but he hasn't gone after him . . . yet.

Azazel/YEDs. They repackaged Azazel to bring about a new breed of demon, the Princes of Hell. What is the deal with these long-time demons? Why do they all seem to want to retire? Cain I understood. He was keeping a promise to his dead wife, but Ramiel, Dagon, and Asmodeus just lose interest and decide not to get involved in things like the Apocalypse? Shouldn't the longer they're around mean that they're more evil, not that they get burnt out or just want to live peacefully? They're demons. I actually think that out of all the things that we've been given this season, this is possibly the most interesting, but it seems to be wrapped up in the nephilim plot at this point. Maybe when Dagon dies, Asmodeus will be introduced and have nothing to do with the nephilim storyline or Lucifer, but they aren't exactly intimidating as long as the Colt is brought along.

The Colt. It hasn't exactly been repackaged, but I guess now we know where it's been this whole time.

Crowley as King of Hell. I don't know that this has been repackaged, but instead of Crowley being a scrappy, wily, scheming demon who clawed his way to the top, we find out he got Ramiel's blessing first, and that it isn't something he wanted. Maybe it was repackaged, but in a place where there was a hole, much like the Colt's whereabouts.

Anything I'm missing?

[–] cassiopeia (528) 8 years ago

I think it is amusing that Dabb promised he wasn't going to rehash old storylines this season. Well he didn't lie, instead he just reinvented old storylines. The only storyline that Dabb doesn't seem to want to repackage, revisit or retell (or even tell) is the Winchester brothers. Those two he seems to have no interest in.

[–] Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020) 8 years ago

Great analysis.

I agree that they've repackaged the following.

- Lucifer: Dabb wants him walking around but to justify the lack of panic this same scenario caused in season 5, he's toned Lucifer all the way down. He's feeding the pigeons, wanting to be a star, and killing but not too much. I also think the nephilim storyline could end up being a redemption arc for Luci. As soon as he started talking about his "pride", I thought he might have a soft spot for his son and he might even die to protect him. I think Luci should have been history after Amara yanked him out of Castiel. This sandwich has been reheated so much it's turning into a soup. Eww? Well that's exactly my point. - MISS

- Mary: the Mary we know couldn't wait to stop hunting and she did after she married John. She was so rusty she was knocking on lamps when they started flickering instead of trying to get her hands on some salt and a shotgun. She also loved her kids and was motherly towards them. Rice tomato soup, "my little angel", 'Hey Jude", they're grown now but a loving mother doesn't turn off the caring side of her because her kids have gotten big. This cold, uncaring and withholding woman is a new character. - MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR MISS

- Psy kids. Very interesting analysis, especially the part about Magda's mom being obsessed with evil. "Sam is/was a psy kid, but he hasn't gone after him . . . yet." Another possible lead for the end of the season. Ketch's ex girlfriend also thought Sam was no better the the things he hunted. I don't see the return of a psy kid as a miss. There were a bunch of them. It makes sense Sam and Dean would bump into one of them at some point. - NOT HIT, NOT MISS

- Azazel/YEDs. Also repackaged. Now he had siblings. Them all wanting to retire actually made sense to me. When Azazel was talking to Lucifer, he said something to the effect that the others had given up but he (Azazel) was still faithful to his master and wanted to set him free. It's been apparent throughout the show that many demons don't want to be bothered with the Master Plan and just want to keep a low profile and snack on souls in peace.
"Shouldn't the longer they're around mean that they're more evil, not that they get burnt out or just want to live peacefully? They're demons." The show has also shown that most demons don't like Hell and want to escape its rigors. Crowley even said that the problems with demons, is that they are... "demons". I do believe their nature is evil but embracing a cause, sacrificing and dying for it requires determination and loyalty, positive qualities many demons simply lack by virtue of being dominated by selfishness and a focus on their needs to the exclusion of anything else. - MORE HIT THAN MISS

- The Colt: I would be disappointed if it can kill the nephilim. That's a human weapon. An archangel weapon like the Lance of Mike is more appropriate for the spawn of Lucifer. - NOT HIT NOT MISS... YET

- Crowley as King of Hell: at first I was disappointed when it was revealed that he became King at the suggestion of Ramiel and then I remembered how he tried to align himself with the head Leviathan. Crowley likes power but he also has a sense of hierarchy where he's able to go to a more powerful entity with a basket of muffins and offer them a partnership. It doesn't completely erase his characteristic as the most ambitious demon we've ever seen on the show. He couldn't have been King of Hell if he hadn't already positioned himself as Lilith's second in command. Again, his initiative, his ability to cozy up to the boss, deliver the goods and become indispensable make him the only viable successor when a position opens. - NOT HIT, NOT MISS

"Anything I'm missing?"

- Castiel's journey to earn the forgiveness of his fellow angels #343 maybe? - COULD BE A HIT IF HE'S ACCEPTED AMONG HIS OWN IN HEAVEN AGAIN

- Sam once again looking slightly tempted by the possibility of a world where no one would need to hunt and could live a normal life because they would be no monsters anywhere? - A COMPLETE AND UTTER MISS

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 8 years ago

"- Castiel's journey to earn the forgiveness of his fellow angels #343 maybe? - COULD BE A HIT IF HE'S ACCEPTED AMONG HIS OWN IN HEAVEN AGAIN

- Sam once again looking slightly tempted by the possibility of a world where no one would need to hunt and could live a normal life because they would be no monsters anywhere? - A COMPLETE AND UTTER MISS"

Ah, yes. How could I forget these two. I guess with Castiel, they've done this so many times that other than trying to find whatever it is that Sam and Dean want to find in whatever season, trying to earn the angel's forgiveness is all he does (I think it's been every season since 8 now).

The Sam storyline does seem to be throwing out all the growth he's had in the last 2 seasons, which is disappointing. I'd add that the way this BMoL/Sam storyline is playing out feels like season 4, but sped up in that he only lied to Dean for an episode. Now if Dean sees something he doesn't like about the BMoL and says they're backing out, but Sam then continues to work with them (either in secret or openly), I'll consider it even more of a season 4 retread and the way Sam was with Ruby.

So, I guess my next question would be are all of these retreads/repacking of old ideas a lazy attempt to distract us from the show's minimizing of Dean and Sam to make it a new show? It feels like that's what they're doing. 'Oh, we'll give them something they liked in the past, like the Colt, psy kids, and YED, and maybe they won't notice that the brothers are no longer the focus of the show. Our new female OC, we'll slap Mary's name on her, and the fan's won't notice. We couldn't get Bloodlines off the ground. The rules for monsters, like shifters, are ones this fandom seem to want us to follow. We can't be bothered to go through over 200 episodes to get those rules right for our new show, so we won't make them monsters. We'll make them human and call them the BMoL. Lucifer? Oh, well, they liked Lucifer in previous seasons. Let's throw him in there too, and we need our main villain to have a redemption arc, so that'll be him.'

[–] PAForrest (158) 8 years ago

- "I guess my next question would be are all of these retreads/repacking of old ideas a lazy attempt to distract us from the show's minimizing of Dean and Sam on the show to make it a new show? It feels like that's what they're doing. 'Oh, we'll give them something they liked in the past, like the Colt, psy kids, and YED, and maybe they won't notice that the brothers are no longer the focus of the show. Our new female OC, we'll slap Mary's name on her, and the fan's won't notice."

Yahtzee. I've been saying all year that Dabb's intention is to prove he can make this show into one that doesn't involve the Winchester brothers (certainly not Dean) - because, let's be honest, isn't that what's happening? The Winchesters have become guest stars in their own show, except for increasingly rare times. Mary Sue is clearly Dabb's favorite Winchester, if not the only Winchester he has any time for, and she's very much an OC. Everything we ever knew about her or heard about her in the past is apparently all bogus and a lie. Ignore it all, because none of it applies.

So, yes, this is what I see happening and think is happening, that Dabb is just repurposing and tweaking all these old storylines - and you've done a good job listing them - foremost because as a showrunner he's lacking because he really has no original ideas of his own; but secondly because he's trying to bait and switch a dwindling fan base in his efforts to create a new-old show that isn't about the Winchester brothers.

[–] CluelessDrifter (884) 8 years ago

I thought of another thing they've redone this year.

Sam and Dean coming to the attention of the authorities and then being on the run. We had it in seasons 2-3, and then in 7. In theory, there's probably more fall out to come from that incident (If the writers want there to be, I guess). Just having Mr. Ketch go through and kill all the soldiers who'd been keeping Dean and Sam wouldn't have erased the entire situation. Those men had to report to someone, so someone would notice when they stopped responding; someone would've gone to check it out, and I guess whoever went to check it out would've found the whole place abandoned. The SS men who arrested Dean and Sam would still remember doing so and would presumably be kept appraised of events unless the BMoL also wiped them out one by one, which is a lot of bodies to drop in high level areas without anyone noticing or questioning it, especially if one is the president, the man who agreed to be Lucifer's vessel.

[–] fishpan (544) 8 years ago

Yeah that gets me, it gets me a lot and I have ranted about it.

There is a whole big paper trail and people connected to that base and there is no reason that the US government hasn't put the brothers on a terrorist list! The hunt for the brothers in US intelligence circles should be a higher priority than Trump's wire tap claims, as to the SS they have two dangerously deadly murderers with the capability to infiltrate their security, who almost assassinated the president then escaped and neutralised a dark base and they don't know what they are really capable of, who trained them, what they want and if they are part of a larger group.

And if the reason the brothers aren't on the Government radar is the Men of Letters then if the men of letters are that powerful then why the hell are they so disorganised and needing to send Mick to dinners to try and recruit little time hunters and not have ex SAS guys able to swoop in every time a US government official gives them the nod. It's bad especially as they could hav easily twisted that into a way to explain Sam's action and a real reason to have him work with the men of letters.

Another major thing I have is the rehash of abuse Sam and apologise/throw greater good in his face and he'll do the most stupid thing going, while protesting he is in control. We had it with Ruby, we've had it with Amelia, we had it with getting rid of the mark and after saying him and Dean need to change their MO and it biting him on the ass when he did it again with letting Lucifer out we have him doing it again with MOL.