Question


Do you guys think that either Ketch or Mick (or the BMOLs for that matter) know that Mary came back from the dead? And if so then why is she still alive? Are they aware of the circumstances of Mary's resurrection? Surely they have to wonder how this woman (37 at the time of her death) who was born sometime ago is apparently still 37 with two sons - the oldest who is 38 (39) himself? And if they are aware of the manner of Mary's return - The Darkness/Gods sister with Gods knowledge - shouldn't they be a little worried if not more reverent when it comes to Dean and Sam?

Who are these Old Men?!?

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This is a question that has occurred to me as well, actually what do the BMOL know about Mary, Dean or Sam - they did say when she was first introduced something about thinking she was dead but it was glossed over if my memory serves me correctly. So I think it will be a writers choice i.e. they have left it open so if they want to make it part of the story that the BMOL find out they can but if they want to put it in the "just forget about it" locker they can as well. As far as canon goes I would assume they don't know? Or just a quick thought maybe that is why they seem to think Mary is the "bees knees"!

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Apparently they suck at simple math too. Exactly what age would she have been when she gave birth to Dean? Say she's 40 or even 45. He's 38-39.

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[deleted]

I think we've talked about her age difference before. Can't remember who posted the thread and what the outcome of it was. I think the BMOL don't know. They appear to be slow in catching up with these finer details. Which make Sam and Dean amazing IMO in comparison. Since they were bought into clear up S&D's messes. It's ironic when you think about it. Their just as crap at their job as they think Sam and Dean are. Pfft!

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I think the BMoL definitely know that Mary is back from the dead. In the very first episode, Toni tells Sam that they have been following the Winchesters' activities since the first averted apocalypse, and in Mamma Mia, she says she has questions about his relationship with Ruby. The Men of Letters also knew about the Darkness and the dying sun (which was why Toni went to the US in the first place).

As "chroniclers of all that which man does not understand" it seems likely they know everything about the Winchesters' history. Mary must have had to explain that Amara brought her back when she was recruited/vetted by Mick. And while Toni and other BMoL may see Mary as some kind of monster, if the goal is to get Sam and Dean to convince other hunters to work with the BMoL, Mary is their best asset. For now.

I imagine the Old Men are older Men of Letters- contemporaries of Magnus, Larry Ganem, and Henry- who managed to survive and continue to run the organizations around the world.

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This was what I thought when in the Golem episode Larry talked about other MoL organizations around the world, and the writers never delved into it all. Until now they bring in the British lot? But was the BMoL's part of those organizations or a separate body all on their own?

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It is all a bit confusing. In As Time Goes By, Henry said he was a Man of Letters like his father and his grandfather. So we know the MoL in the US existed long before the bunker was built in the 1930's. We also know from the ledger that Sam found in The Werther Project, there were MoL chapter houses all over the country. Toni says everyone thought the American MoL chapters were all defunct.

As you said, the writers never really explained what happened to the other MoL- we just know what happened to the Normal, IL chapter when Abaddon attacked them in 1958. Perhaps being cut off from the bunker (Larry had the key and was living under an alias) the other chapters closed up? or Maybe Abaddon killed all the other MoL and Henry's chapter was just the last one she hit?

Anyway, it seems like there are MoL chapter houses all over the world. Maybe there are other bunkers too? Toni says the "Old Men" were reluctant to interfere with matters outside their jurisdiction. So I think they're part of a larger collective of Men of Letters, but just preferred to keep to themselves until now.

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Yeah I thought Abandon killed them all. It is funny how they never investigated what happened to their fellow men of letters.

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That's what made me wonder about those guys where Sam and Dean were held start, of the season. No one checked up on them. Someone must have some idea where they are or bothered about them not making any contact. It's like people are whipped out, never to be heard or seen again. I know the writers don't have much time to play with and have to cram everything into 43 minutes of screen time, but just a little nod by an officer would do like oh where is such and such not seen him in a while. It's strange how officers don't make any inclines that their co-workers are dead? Since that's what they do for a living. What do they do, just say case closed lack of evidence?

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Yeah you think it would be top priority. She was a threat unless Time travel was tricky or they thought they were both killed in the attack.

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They probably think John Winchester is a pedophile.

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