Addiction to porn is real


In case there are those interested in wanting to know, there is a BBC documentary about teens (males) addicted to internet porn(ography).

url link of original BBC hosting site announcing the existence of documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074gch

url link to Google video archive to view the documentary
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=6071194036588899948
(Attn. Please, let's try to keep this video available because there is both educational and historical value that this documentary should remain available for online viewing. Please, do not ask or make Google take down the documentary.)

another related url
http://www.emeleus.org/BBCprogramme.htm

Although addiction is accepted as real, I do not think we need worry porn addiction become an epidemic. As mentioned elsewhere on this message board, but worth repeating, adolescent males (most are males since females do not suffer from scopophilia) viewing porn demonstrates a physical and mental healthy behaviour that is typical of average males.
Addiction is when one becomes dysfunctional as a direct or indirect consequence of their particular addiction.

In the case of the movie to be fair, the scene in which the central character, Justin, is downloading porn on his girlfriend's PDA at the swim meet is an instance in which the movie makers did a fair job of accurately portraying his porn addict behaviour.
There is a time and place for everything, and viewing porn at your own swim meet is inappropriate.

About the movie if I did not know this was a genuine Lifetime movie, then I would have thought this was some clever spoof of a Lifetime/ABC after-school special.
I thought the characterization was unrealistic to the point that I was taken out of the movie. Some of the characters' behaviour did not ring true.
• the younger brother acting as if traumatized after witnessing porn
• the choice of NOT following through on the sexual encounter with Monica
I find it laughable that his male teammates would gang up against his porn watching all the while, as noted in a scene earlier in the movie, there was a group (mixed gender audience) screening of a porn movie. OK, something is inconsistent within the minor characters.
There are many problems with how the story was executed, all mentioned already under the various topics on this message board.

I love the idea that the energy drink consumption is a symbolic metaphor for the explicit exclusion of any depiction of Onanism.

reply

Pretty objective post. At first I thought this was going to be religious propaganda. Yes, anytime something interferes with your ability to function and take part in society, it can be considered an addiction. But by that same token, I would say a lot of people are also addicted to Jesus. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with Christians over the years where they completely reject rationalism and science because "Jesus is the way, and anyone contradicting anything in the bible is part of a vast left-wing conspiracy to undermine their belief in Jesus". So they refuse to take part in the modern world. I've never seen more addictive behavior than I've seen with religion. Ironically, you never see any support groups for Ex-faith addicts.

reply

[deleted]

Jesus is at least something healthy to cling to; porn is not. Seems strange to me how so many here respond to the posts about porn's harm with something about religion's harm. The unhealthy addicts in religion are not obsessed with Jesus Himself anyway, but obsessed with either a fanatical devotion to lack of common sense, a legalistic superior attitude, a needy desperate fear to cling to SOMETHING, a nasty power lust that has nothing to do with faith, or something similar; there is, in fact, help for such people.

reply

Define "healthy"? When someone is refusing to take part in the real world, I don't consider that healthy. When someone rejects scientific truth because they fear it undermines their faith in Jesus, I don't consider that healthy. When someone's fervent defense of Jesus causes them to hate anyone who's different or who challenges their faith, I don't consider that healthy. It's weird how Jesus's message was to love, but of all the people I've met in my life, Christians have been some of the most hate filled, judgmental individuals that I've come across.

But now take porn on the other hand. If someone is pent up and angry, that dissipates two seconds after they orgasm. Throughout the world, the most violent countries are always the most sexually repressive countries, and the most stable and peaceful countries are always the most sexually permissive.

To be honest, I think you're right in the sense that, people shouldn't be whacking it to porn all day because it's all make believe. You should be spending that energy having sex with real people instead (while wearing protection of course). So possibly I do agree with you on that note.

reply

Thanks for understanding my point re porn. As far as Jesus is concerned, I see Him and His teachings as healthy the way food is healthy: good and vital even for the system, but easily abused. Jesus is a remarkable figure in and of Himself, but He hasn't always been used as such.

reply

Well my only real qualm with Christianity is that it's the religion of denying yourself happiness in order to please the gods.

Most Christians typically agree with the first part of my statement (porn in excess can be a negative thing) but they don't agree with the second part of my statement (that they should use that energy to GET LAID with real people instead of dreaming about the people that they wish they had). I honestly think the sexually repressive aspect of Christianity is what drives people away from it more than any other single thing. People really only start questioning the whole ball of wax when they start asking themselves, "why is this religion trying to keep me from being happy?" And then once they start asking themselves that question, they realize what a house of cards the whole thing is.

reply

It doesn't keep people from being happy, it keeps them from seeking shallow happiness. The Bible very much exhorts sex and even tells spouses, more or less, to do it as much as they want/can precisely so they WON'T be tempted by anything else, like porn (nowadays anyway). The Bible beautifully describes sex and exhorts it, just not with multiple partners or strangers.

reply

But that's just what I'm saying. Sex is always the most fun when it's with new people. It's the most exciting. The reason people like porn so much is because they can get off to a different person every day. It's the fulfillment of their natural urge to go and spread their seed with as many of their fellow humans as possible. So when the bible is telling people "don't do that thing that you're biologically programmed to derive happiness from", the bible is keeping people from being happy. You can try and justify it all you want, but I've never met a bachelor who's unhappy because he's getting laid by too many beautiful women, or a women who's unhappy because she's getting laid by too many handsome men.

Where as I've met more married people than I can count who are trying to make the best of their bad situation... saddled with kids, a mortgage, car payments, and a spouse who they've lost interest in years ago. You can only unwrap the same gift so many times before it's about as exciting as doing your taxes. And yet the bible tells us that such a dead end is what "true happiness" is? Get real.

reply

{White i hope you do not mind my imput, as for everyone else. I am not attacking, just expressing my feelings. Also, i need to "practice what i am preaching" below, I am working on this}

"Sex is always the most fun when it's with new people. It's the most exciting"

No it isnt. Sure the idea of another,temptation is always this wonderful thought. Then you do it, and guess what, another let down. It is a cycle. The problem with stale sex lives, and relationships is the lack of communication. not banging other people.

That, my friends is the downfall of alot of marriages. Its even more a downfall in sexual interaction. When both, women and men feel unsatisfied, unfullfilled, its mostly caused from poor communication. People seem scared to say"that dosent do anything for me" or "Lets try this". People are even more closed minded when the questions are asked. "I dont do this, i wont do that" That is fine, unless you are just lazy, and dont want to try something you have no idea you will like. If its size he has a problem with, he has better apendages to make up for it. If she liys like a plank of wood, find out why, just ask..... It she/he is uncomfortable, dont push, but do work it out. find a comfort zone in discussion.

Some things we wont do, if there is a hang up on it, then that is ok. Jumping in the bed, face to face, going through the motions, then nodding off.. That isnt going to fullfill for long. People who love each other, married couples, should communicate openly. Put away the taboo, and just put it out in the open. Share ideas, learn about each others body. Read books, self help.

Women, we were not born with instructions to your bits, and Men women were not born with the same knowledge of women. Dont be a macho @$$hole, and look stupid. Talk about it, read the articles if you must look at porn. The women in those mags were a great bonus, but the knowledge in those magazines were amazing. But there are better ways of finding knowledge

Porn I found out is not the key. It is all fabricated. These films are edited too look like ol Ron jeremy can go two hours, when it is pieced together from days of shooting, and loop footage.

"You can only unwrap the same gift so many times" HorseS#*&! That is the other downfall. We get to comfortable with each other. We set around and walk around naked, to the point where there is no turn on. used to be, when the sight of bare shoulders, wrapped in a sheet was the most amazing, sexy thing ever. now its something you dont notice. I can attest to this.My wife acts like a nudist!

She was upset by the fact I didnt know when I was time for her to be sensual, or just too lazy to put on clothes, lol. So we expiremented. We spent a few weeks, not appearing nude, and the old feeling came back.

We get to comfortable in everything, sex, each other. I could go on for days.

I will simplfy,

Set down and play a game, find away to tell one another what turns you on, what your likes and dislikes, things you want to try, and try to compromise. This takes two, it takes open minds, and hearts. sex can be fantastic for a life time with the same person. hell, if that dont work, go buy some whips and chains, masks. Role play people, Just dont quit something beautiful because each other is sexually lost.


Whitespirit, your words are fantastic on the stand of the bible. People feel like the bible stops them from "enjoying" life, if they cracked it open, they would find many answer's to lifes hard questions, something I am also in the process of doing.

If i have missed anything, or confused my words, let me know.


"No one can eacape my Omega beam"

reply

I don't mind at all Meph, you are awesome and well-spoken :) Thank you!

reply


LMAO!!! i read that first one and my heart sank!! LOl hehe I was like What did I say! LOl TTYL wonderful :)



"No one can eacape my Omega beam"

reply

Sex is always the most fun when it's with new people? No it isn't. Sure the idea of another,temptation is always this wonderful thought. Then you do it, and guess what, another let down. It is a cycle.
This really touches on something at the core of my argument. If you'll bare with me for a second Mephisto, I should probably address that first...

The first question I have to raise here is "What Is Human Nature?" In psychology, it's observed that human nature in the natural state (ie. a child who is groomed from birth to act on his impulses) is highly promiscuous. The bible really embraces and argues this idea pretty heavily too, probably one of the few places where modern psychology and the bible have common ground. I mean whats the first thing people say when they see a teenager who's sleeping around like a jack rabbit in heat? "Ohhh, the parents didn't teach them right, bad parenting, etc". One of the first social responsibilities that most parents are expected to undertake (whether consciously or not) is to hide sexuality from their kids. Most don't really analyze why they do it, but on a sociological level, it makes it a lot easier to train them to be monogamous/less sexual later in life. You don't see most parents, especially religious parents, supplying their kids with a collection of Hustlers.

The practical effect of detaching kids from their sexuality early on, and preaching against sex as they get older, is that a lot of people (and especially people who have been raised in some kind of environment where sex is bad or it's highly hidden from them) have a really hard time enjoying their natural desire to be promiscuous, and instead they accumulate a great number of sexual hangups (you alluded to this fact in your post).

So when I talk about this subject to adults who have been raised in a very sexually open home, they love sex, and they love it with new people too, as long as the people are beautiful and they feel like they connect with them. But when I have this conversation with people who have been raised in a religious, or more asexual environment, they have a much harder time relating to the person who is very sexually free and loves all kinds of sex. (Typically, people who are raised in a sexually repressive environment have a word for people who are raised in a sexually free environment... "SLUT! WHORE! etc, there's a rather long list of colorful words.)

Now we're biologically programmed to go out and spread our seed with as many people as possible in order to ensure the survival of the species. If we naturally felt that sex with many people was "icky" or a let down after we did it, that would only hinder our ability to ensure our species survival.

The reason I wanted to get this idea out of the way, is because I'll keep referring back to it and I don't want to retype all this. It's important to separate sexual conquests that you've been socially trained to feel let down by, and sexual conquests that you're biologically hardwired to feel let down by. I'm going to embrace the biblical view that humans are naturally promiscuous and it's mom and dads job to "raise them right" so they don't enjoy their promiscuity.

The problem with stale sex lives, and relationships is the lack of communication. not banging other people.
For some people maybe, but it's strange. Typically, I've found that mental connection and sexual connection are two arms of the same concept (our need to connect). The more you feel like you're connected with someone mentally, the less you feel like you need to connect with them sexually. Likewise for most people I've known, they are the MOST sexually attracted to people who they know nothing about yet. All they know is the person is gorgeous.

On the other hand, the only people I've ever met in my life who have a good sex life after 30 years, always seem to be people who keep a lot of secrets from one another (they have a lot of deeper mysteries about them that they don't share) and it's actually this lack of communication and feeling like you're not connecting with them on a mental level somehow, that fuels a natural need for physical/sexual connection even after decades of marriage.

"You can only unwrap the same gift so many times" HorseS#*&! That is the other downfall. We get to comfortable with each other. We set around and walk around naked, to the point where there is no turn on. used to be, when the sight of bare shoulders, wrapped in a sheet was the most amazing, sexy thing ever. now its something you dont notice.
Forgive me for saying, but much of your post reads like a Tony Robbins conference. "Common people! We can overcome our biological programming! Are you a quitter?? Lets do this thing!!" Which is kind of cool, but it's more about trying to motivate people to work within the sexually repressive framework that's been imposed on them by faith, society, and their upbringing. 1 in every 2 marriages ends in divorce in this country and for good reason... sex with the same people over and over becomes so boring that half the people in this country are willing to endure having half their fortune and kids taken from them, just to move on to brighter pastures.

People feel like the bible stops them from "enjoying" life. If they cracked it open, they would find many answer's to life's hard questions, something I am also in the process of doing.
I was raised Christian, and as I said, throughout, I've always noticed that the bible adopts a very negative view of sexuality. I can give you about 100 passages where it refers to sex as an evil, and maybe only 5 where it ever refers to it as being "ok" and only in the context of a wife doing her duty by letting her husband have his way with her.

reply

You get real. It sounds like you have no concept of true commitment or love. You think spontaneous genitals will keep you happy your whole life? Do you have any idea how many women are embittered from careless sex? And yeah, men too; we're programmed for commitment and something much deeper. Those bachelors you described, just wait till they're lonely and sagging and can't get easy hits anymore.

"don't do that thing that you're biologically programmed to derive happiness from"

Biologically, my foot. Humans need more than sex and physical pleasure. What you described is nothing but shallow crud. I would have been able to accept your post more (though strongly disagreeing) if you hadn't made the ridiculous claims that mature, monogamous adults are never happy. Saddled with kids?? Good God, you sound sad.

reply

Biologically, my foot. Humans need more than sex and physical pleasure. What you described is nothing but shallow crud. I would have been able to accept your post more (though strongly disagreeing) if you hadn't made the ridiculous claims that mature, monogamous adults are never happy. Saddled with kids?? Good God, you sound sad.
In the course of my life, I've talked with probably a little over 400 different people about their sex lives, old, young, singles, couples. Human Sexuality was my major in college so when I speak, I'm basing my observations only on patterns that I've encountered over and over. I've addressed the biology of this concept much more thoroughly in my post above to Mephisto, but it's important for people to separate what they've been taught to feel, and what they're naturally programmed to feel. Sure, woman have a biological urge to rear young, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that she has a biological urge to find a single man and mate with him for life. That's something that we're trained from a young age to embrace the socially-stabilizing practical value of, while wrapping it in a blanket of romanticism.

I'm quite happy with my own sex life and relationships actually. But partly because I've talked with so many people about their own (so I'm pretty aware when I'm driving on the freeway of life) and I'm very aware of what brings me fulfillment.

Those bachelors you described, just wait till they're lonely and sagging and can't get easy hits anymore.
Well, even when married people are sagging, they often no longer want to have sex with each other (Viagra helps some to overcome that though). But "loneliness" is the reason why most people feel they need to get married, but honestly, that's why you have friends who you can tell anything to. I've been very blessed in my life to have friends (or to have actively seeked friends really) who I know I can tell my deepest secrets to. I know my parents generation on the other hand, has a much harder time sharing eeeeeverything with their friends (I'm in my late 20's). So the desire to be open might be a generational thing at some level. But don't forget, half of all married couples (that stay married) always die alone anyway because one person always dies first before the other. And that's what retirement homes are for. Being surrounded by friends who you can talk to and enjoy life with in your final days.

reply

I don't think you understand the Bible at all, as it teaches responsibility about sex and only sexual immorality as a filthy thing; loving sex is healthy and enjoyable for BOTH partners, not just the male. People who are happy to share their intimate body parts and genital fluids with dozens are fools in my eyes, and they very rarely end their lives happily. I'm sorry you've known shallow adults and careless marriage partners, but a great deal of modern psycology is bogus and the modern way of cheapening sex and damning monogamy is not good or healthy at all. Mature adults know the value of a sexual/loving relationship and how sacred and different it is from every other kind. Your basic philosophy appears to be screw whoever you want until you sag and then hang out with friends; my God. It's unbelievable what I've seen on this board. Thanks for your patient explanations and discussion, but I'll never agree. This is exactly why I'm glad I hold my future mate to a higher standard; never will the horny, propositioning children on the Internet have any favors from me.

reply

I don't think you understand the Bible at all, as it teaches responsibility about sex and only sexual immorality as a filthy thing; loving sex is healthy and enjoyable for BOTH partners, not just the male. People who are happy to share their intimate body parts and genital fluids with dozens are fools in my eyes, and they very rarely end their lives happily.
Read my earlier post to Mephisto (on this page). I was raised a Christian and I've learned from experience that Christians love to say, "The bible isn't sexually repressive at all! It just teaches people about the need to not have sex with random people or anyone before marriage and only if they're committed to one another". Hello? That's the word-for-word definition of sexual repression... anything that represses an individuals biological sexuality and replaces it with a framework that they must work within.

I'm sorry you've known shallow adults and careless marriage partners, but a great deal of modern psychology is bogus and the modern way of cheapening sex and damning monogamy is not good or healthy at all.
It's funny how the more time that passes, the more Christianity declares war on science. Psychology has only one goal... to find the truth. Christianity has only one goal as well... to protect the assumed truth (the bible). The truth for Christians has been found 2 millenniums ago, and whatever contradicts it as time goes on is "bogus". Psychology derives its truth by interviewing as many people as possible and getting to the underlying core of why they do the things they do. Please don't attack science just because it doesn't corroborate your ancient truth.

Mature adults know the value of a sexual/loving relationship and how sacred and different it is from every other kind.
I like how you've separated mature adults from just regular adults. Mature adults apparently are those who have learned to live within the sexually repressive framework that faith imposes, and immature adults are those who find happiness outside of that framework.

Your basic philosophy appears to be screw whoever you want until you sag and then hang out with friends; my God.
No, that's your interpretation of it. My personal philosophy is to enjoy sex and relationships with different people who you find beautiful and funny and interesting. For most of them, I maintain a friendship with them after we both move on. And then at the same time, I have an extended network of companions and friends who I can talk with about anything. I find it to actually be a lot more satisfying than when I've had just one partner for a very long time. The irony is that your description here of what you feel my philosophy is, is identical to the philosophy of marriage, except you're screwing your spouse until you sag, and then you just hang out with them. The only difference is that, in my philosophy, I'm permitted a greater variety of people to hang out with.

Thanks for your patient explanations and discussion, but I'll never agree. This is exactly why I'm glad I hold my future mate to a higher standard; never will the horny, propositioning children on the Internet have any favors from me.
I have an idea. Why don't you pursue that mate first and then report back to me on the success of that relationship in 10 years and just how easy it was for you to *ENJOY* pulling off all the goals that you've laid out for yourself. :)

reply

Sure, Chris. I know dozens of happily married people for years and you're naive if you mock them or me for following what I've seen to be very true.

"Mature adults apparently are those who have learned to live within the sexually repressive framework that faith imposes, and immature adults are those who find happiness outside of that framework"

Mature adults use their brains and hearts rather than their privates. Immature adults find shallow temporary "happiness" with easy sex instead of taking the harder road of commitment and growth. Rutting like an animal is not maturity.

And wrong, psychology doesn't always have the goal of finding "truth". Mostly psychology fascinates me and is quite valuable, but dozens of the modern self-centered, self-victimizing, relive-your-horror-to-lose-it, screw-because-your-privates-want-to, anything-you-feel-is-natural bull is just that: bull. The modern person cares mostly for self-satisfaction, and everything from promotion of loose sex to New Age "centeredness" gurus to if-you-feel-it-it's-natural psychology panders to this. I criticize this stuff because it's crap, and far from threatening to me. I'm not afraid of animals evolving within their own species, or the world being created in more than a week; I love science and studying the psyche. But when I see trash, I'll call it what it is.

reply

well said my dear

"No one can eacape my Omega beam"

reply

I tell people, women mostly the following. Some women go on about how men are pigs, due to the response to sexual impulse. The fac of the matter is this. Biologicaly our main function is to nail everything that moves(this is woman and men) to procriate and reproduce. this comes before all ambition.

But to stomp on that. WE ARE NOT MINDLESS ANIMALS (sorry wanted to get that across, lol) But we act like we are, casting aside any bond of love, for a quick rush of hormones. I personaly, cannot have sex with someone unless i love them, or know them inside and out (no pun). Im not trying to judge, but the fact that people just "F" anything appauls me. This isnt even based on religious purpose. It is based on the deep feeling that its just plain wrong, and careless. So many problems arise from these "one night stands". People go in with no feeling and bam. The old joke "She fell asleep , you fell in love"

Someone will go home hurt, and this hurt is what turns into self destructive behaivor. I dont mean this will happen to everyone. But it happens too much

I have been this way my intire life, I love sex, I was almost addicted to the stimulaton. But even in blind lust, i could just have sex with anyone. Because I saw the value of sex, and the sensual feeling of heart to heart love making.

I wont lie, now that i have gotten older, my hormones have kicked in, my wife and i talk about this , well daily. I want to nail everything now, everyone, LOL no matter who. It has caught up. But its just a bunch of chemicals, that have nearly got me in trouble. Communication, this is where it comes in. I could tell my wife, because we have been really open, about most things. The things we havent, it has hurt us. But now that they are in the light, they are adressed. Almost fixed.

I have more, this is very thereputic, lol



"No one can eacape my Omega beam"

reply

I wont lie, now that i have gotten older, my hormones have kicked in, my wife and i talk about this , well daily. I want to nail everything now, everyone, LOL no matter who. It has caught up. But its just a bunch of chemicals, that have nearly got me in trouble. Communication, this is where it comes in. I could tell my wife, because we have been really open, about most things. The things we haven't, it has hurt us. But now that they are in the light, they are addressed. Almost fixed.
I appreciate your honesty Mephisto. I know monogamy is a difficult skill to master. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that married people should go out and cheat. But since I know it's such a difficult skill to master and takes a certain person who is content with just one person (and I know most people are NOT like that), I'm the first person always to try and talk someone out of getting married because I know what a can of worms that can open up over the years.

As you might have noticed with my post to whitespirit (below), I completely understand the basis of it on an evolutionary/scientific time line and why it's important. But we have things now a days that we didn't have 26,000 years ago... condoms for one. I guess I merely question whether or not it's so vital that we maintain the exact same framework that our ancestors handed down to us so long ago... or if there's room (given current technology) to update the framework.

Again however, what originally kicked this whole discussion off was that the ancient framework (which is a huge component of Christianity) turns away a lot of humans who have learned to circumnavigate the necessity of the framework using modern tools of disease prevention.

reply

Sure, Chris. I know dozens of happily married people for years and you're naive if you mock them or me for following what I've seen to be very true.
And I've known dozens of happily married people too, but even they will be the first to admit, that it takes work, constant compromise, and it's a commitment to stay together no matter how bad things might ever get. Just because there have been examples of people who have jumped from bridges and lived to tell about it, doesn't mean most people will be so lucky. In the course of my life, I've met far more happy non-married people than I've met happily married people.

Mature adults use their brains and hearts rather than their privates. Immature adults find shallow temporary "happiness" with easy sex instead of taking the harder road of commitment and growth. Rutting like an animal is not maturity.
I understand completely what your view is. Maturity is about learning, striving to find happiness within the sexually repressive framework. I'm simply calling a spade a spade. Where as you're calling a spade a "marvelously arched design of geometric shapes". You can re-brand the sexually repressive framework all you want and talk about what a grand journey of personal and spiritual fulfillment that framework is, but it's still a sexually repressive framework.

Secondly, Christians love to claim that people who don't live like them, can't possibly be happy. How do you know considering the only people who you trust are other Christians (who don't live in that opposing framework either) or other people who were raised Christian, strayed from their sexually-repressive framework and couldn't find lasting happiness based on their early childhood conditioning, and went back? Again, the true question that you need to answer for me first, is what human nature is. Only then can you ever hope to ascertain what the basis of human fulfillment is.

Psychology doesn't always have the goal of finding "truth".
By definition, this is the goal of psychology (at least in academia). I can't say the same for Dr. Laura or Dr. Phil or many of the pseudo-science media personalities who are trying to get ratings now a days.

The modern person cares mostly for self-satisfaction, and everything from promotion of loose sex to New Age "centeredness" gurus to if-you-feel-it-it's-natural psychology panders to this. I criticize this stuff because it's crap, and far from threatening to me. I'm not afraid of animals evolving within their own species, or the world being created in more than a week; I love science and studying the psyche. But when I see trash, I'll call it what it is.
Well if you're a person of science, then surely you can see that your belief system is based entirely on your upbringing, and your perception of truth (true happiness can only be found with one mate for life) is a reflection of that upbringing. I already know what you believe because I was raised in the same sexually repressive framework. I just feel that I've grown as a person as I've tried to understand the framework itself and how that framework (monogamy) came in to existence some 26,000 years ago as a necessary survival mechanism during the rise of the very first STD's (which many anthropologists feel completely wiped out our ancestors -- Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal).

I'm just pointing out the fact that it's a learned survival mechanism that we pass down to our young, and we have to constantly pound it in to them over and over to get them to carry it on to future generations. If we don't pound it in to them over and over, they catch one of those STD's and die out. The result is that they can't live to pass that sexually repressive framework down to future generations as to circumvent their extinction. That sexually repressive framework is just the gift that just keeps on giving... and has for thousands of years.

reply

"I've known dozens of happily married people too, but even they will be the first to admit, that it takes work, constant compromise, and it's a commitment to stay together no matter how bad things might ever get. Just because there have been examples of people who have jumped from bridges and lived to tell about it, doesn't mean most people will be so lucky. In the course of my life, I've met far more happy non-married people than I've met happily married people"

Well, exactly. It's a good, hard thing, and not for everyone, but I'd recommend it over loose sex anytime.

"Christians love to claim that people who don't live like them, can't possibly be happy."

Every person is different; I don't expect everyone to live exactly like me.

"How do you know considering the only people who you trust are other Christians (who don't live in that opposing framework either) or other people who were raised Christian, strayed from their sexually-repressive framework and couldn't find lasting happiness based on their early childhood conditioning, and went back? Again, the true question that you need to answer for me first, is what human nature is."

That's the thing, I am speaking of what I know. Human nature is by and large built for companionship. Both I and my sisters know lots of "non-repressed" sexual people, who are some of the most confused creatures I've ever seen. Humans are above animals and, while I'm not saying every person must get married and have sex with only one person in their life to be happy, I know the system of loose sex and nothing better, just for the sake of itself, doesn't fit as a permanent living situation for most people.

"By definition, this is the goal of psychology (at least in academia). I can't say the same for Dr. Laura or Dr. Phil or many of the pseudo-science media personalities who are trying to get ratings now a days"

Exactly, psychology is a good science but depends on its individual vessel as well.

"That sexually repressive framework is just the gift that just keeps on giving... and has for thousands of years."

Call it repressed if you like (definitely it is somewhat, for a good purpose I think), but you're right: it has worked and it is a gift as well as a survival mechanism physically and emotionally.



reply

[deleted]

Aw thanks sweetie :) I had an awesome school day, how have you been?

reply

[deleted]

Exactly, hon. I'm enjoying some awesome books, music and films basically, for the moment :) And seeing friends online and elsewhere. Keeping my mind busy.

reply

Well, exactly. It's a good, hard thing, and not for everyone, but I'd recommend it over loose sex anytime.
Well if someone isn't cut out for marriage, I wouldn't recommend it for them over loose sex (so long as they used protection). Otherwise you're just setting them up for years of unhappiness... especially if you know up front that they're not cut out for the hard times and the compromise and the lack of sex drive when the kids are fighting and the babies crying and the dozens of other hurdles that come with the job.

Human nature is by and large built for companionship.
I'll broaden this even further (and I think you'll agree). I think it's human nature to connect with their fellow humans. Humans are naturally social creatures. Sexuality is merely the physical manifestation of their need to connect (so is hugging, kissing, spooning, etc). The only practical reason to have so many taboos attached to sex (but to be tolerant of all the other methods of connection) seems to be a way to circumvent death by STD. I'm merely trying to get people to ask themselves why they do the things they do and why they believe the things they believe.

Both I and my sisters know lots of "non-repressed" sexual people, who are some of the most confused creatures I've ever seen.
We are all repressed (at least every human I've ever had contact with), make no mistake about it. We are simply repressed in varying amounts, whether by society or by ourselves. The only non-repressed human I've ever been near is an embryo. But keep in mind (as I will elaborate below in your next question) there currently exists no truly stable and validating framework in society for people who are sexually promiscuous.

Humans are above animals and, while I'm not saying every person must get married and have sex with only one person in their life to be happy, I know the system of loose sex and nothing better, just for the sake of itself, doesn't fit as a permanent living situation for most people.
This is a really good point you raise because it leads to a deeper question, which is... why is there a lack of a foundation in society where such a framework can be embraced? (Again, I think it goes back to the STD concept). One thing I've seen over and over during my studies and interviews, is that there are a lot of people out there now a days, a LOT, especially young people, who are searching for a more updated (sexually free) framework where they can live and be a part of society. However society for the most part doesn't offer them a framework at this point in time.

However, like many movements of the past... they first begin with a vacuum. The 60's "free love" movement was the last time that society (mainly young people) tried to forge a framework that could allow them to take part in society while still embracing their human nature. If you talk to a lot of the old timers who were a part of that movement, it really did have obvious success, however all the STD's put a damper on things and then finally the knock out punch hit... the AIDS crisis, and that promptly brought the whole movement crashing down starting in the late 70s, with over a million deaths in the United States to date.

Today, after hundreds of interviews, I see the same unchecked stirrings. Young people all across the western world (but especially the United States) are searching for a more modern framework that will allow them to take part in society (forge close bonds with their humans like in the 60's free love movement, while still allowing them to be active members of society). I don't see it as a matter of "if" such a movement will happen again, but when. I have a running bet with a colleague that it will happen before 2045 is out. But it also depends HEAVILY on how quickly the biological revolution occurs in society, as STD's are the major dampening force of those types of movements. In all honesty, it will probably be about 20 years after all STD's are cured that another movement will almost inevitably take place.

It's been really fun talking to you guys btw.

reply

Yes, it is indeed important to question why you believe things. I don't recommend either loose sex or unhappy marriage, but the former is something I don't think ever works. It's not just STD's, but heartbreak the older want to protect the younger from, especially girls; no matter what modern philosophy claims, girls still cry when they're rejected or refused devotion. It takes a very hardened person to think they don't need love as well as sex from a person; even men generally regret looseness, though it doesn't always hit them nearly as fast. People are afraid of losing the family structure and the stability that loose sex and similar lifestyles threaten, which is why society doesn't offer a framework for what you describe. Still, it's pretty damn liberal now; I'm glad it doesn't get any more encouragement or tolerance than it does already.

I do know of many "live just like me" folks who are more religious and legalistic than Christian; there are those who believe girls shouldn't date, just be courted, and then only by men who get through Daddy's approval! I can't stand this sort of narrowness and don't agree with it at all. Many of these people would also tell me the romance novels, sexual poetry, and nude art I've collected over the years are impure and wrong for me to read (*raspberries* at them, since none of these things have damaged my choices or faith in the least) and I've never been that separated from sex. I know it's very hard sometimes and have been tempted to take matters into my own hands with an attractive male friend, but in the end, I'm more about security than anything else.

Inspite of my disagreements, it's been fun talking to you too :)

reply

[deleted]

Yes, it is indeed important to question why you believe things. I don't recommend either loose sex or unhappy marriage, but the former is something I don't think ever works. It's not just STD's, but heartbreak the older want to protect the younger from, especially girls; no matter what modern philosophy claims, girls still cry when they're rejected or refused devotion.
It's funny but I've heard the same argument made of guys as well, that they too can get truly hurt if refused devotion. Likewise, I've met many girls who can slip in and out of relationships even easier than most guys. I don't think it's a guy/girl thing. I think it's a "raised in the sexually repressive framework" thing, and it will continue to happen as long as that framework exists from now until the end of time. The only way I can truly see an end to the cycle of hurt, is to revise the framework. To quote Albert Einstein, "Lunacy is to do the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result". We've been doing the same thing for many thousands of years, and yet we still believe that maybe, one day, something will change.

It takes a very hardened person to think they don't need love as well as sex from a person
Well the "free love" movement was all about deep relationships with multiple people. Your argument is based on the idea that it's impossible to have more than one relationship at a time with any given person. Your ability to carry on multiple relationships at any given time (polyamory) depends entirely on the framework to which you understand and are comfortable with.

Even men generally regret looseness, though it doesn't always hit them nearly as fast.
I rarely meet men who ever regret looseness (unless we're talking about the morning after when they realize they were wearing beer goggles when they pursued some girl). More than anything, men tend to resent a lack of devotion, but even then it's only certain men who are almost always raised in more sexually repressive frameworks.

People are afraid of losing the family structure and the stability that loose sex and similar lifestyles threaten, which is why society doesn't offer a framework for what you describe.
Well the family structure in a lot of hippy communes that embraced these kinds of lifestyles were actually quite stable and functional. As I mentioned, the downfall of them, over and over, was the sexually and emotionally numbing effects caused by the mass spread of STD's.

Still, it's pretty damn liberal now; I'm glad it doesn't get any more encouragement or tolerance than it does already.
When I was young, I actually wanted what you want (if not something way more conservative). The reason I changed my mind was because I realized that so much of the hurt that people endure in our world is caused by the sexually repressive framework. I want people to no longer feel sadness and hurt, and everything I've learned in my field of study seems to point to the idea that it's the framework itself that's causing the pain.

As an additional side note, I've found that people who lack a framework that structures and validates their lifestyle are often some of the biggest users of drugs and alcohol (which has long been a helpful tool to let go of frameworks to which you were born in to -- ie. let you drop your guard and do what you desire). I'm all for a framework that structures humanities natural state, because 1) I know a happy human is a motivated human and motivated humans are some of societies greatest contributors and 2) If a framework is in place that lets people act on their natural desires, then it eliminates the demand for mind-altering substances to temporarily leave the framework to which they were born (ie. no more drug addiction).

That's why I'm quite tolerant of the change that's very likely on the horizon for our species. I don't see it as something to be afraid of at all and if it weren't for Christianity, we really wouldn't have been able to get back to the place that we're now at where all these changes are at our doorstep. So my hat is off to Christendom for that. In essence, I think Christianity and the sexually-repressive framework are necessary steps in our species development, but I don't think they're the destination. (Only my humble opinion of course).

reply

I must say this has to be the most peaceful, not totally stress free, but nicsest debate I have ever seen, Haha you have all been a great pleasure

"No one can eacape my Omega beam"

reply

[deleted]

No dickie, I won't.

reply

[deleted]

Actually, she has a very strong, and may I say beautiful cranium, i dont hink it will ever implode......, hiya assface, whats your problem???

Did she attack your only source of sexual release?? because a mouth like that im pretty sure you have a hard time getting the ladies??

Your the only one here i see sexually repressed. She just has morals, and good taste :D

Yes, keep those fingers crossed pervert, that way they dont wonder into personal orifice. Do us all a favor, and stick to porn, because a prick like you has no right to procriate :D

I have a feeling, ill be seeing more of you soon.

luv ya white :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gIpuIVE3k

reply

Thank you, dear friend :) I came here months ago speaking strongly against porn after doing some research and this guy started throwing a fit from the start, even claiming I had some sick thing for the child actor in this film. He can't stand my presence now, no matter what I say. Funniest thing of all? He claims HE doesn't like porn..

reply

Well He neeeds to get a life


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gIpuIVE3k

reply

[deleted]

I'm guessing your mental anger at me will eventually cause your crotch to blow up. Won't be surprised, since you whine and bitch even when I have perfectly nice conversations with others which don't even resemble talk of sexual repression.

reply

[deleted]

LMAO Try looking at Meph's account and mine. Several people on the website know we're two different people. Nice try though.

reply

LOL, dont worry about me d*%k face, im a real person, im not as nice or patient as my beautiful friend whitespirit.So you go back to "palming" it, and let the grown folks talk, "k" Oh, and speaking of "sock" do you try and pawn off the ol "its wood glue" excuse, when your mother washes yours??




White, I hope this day has found you well, beautiful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gIpuIVE3k

reply

[deleted]

Thank you for proving my point: People should really be more responsible, and use birth control, in your parents case, the double condom, withdrawl method. That or you should have been swallowed.


Haha, i hate Lifetime, I just can smell morons from the sign in page


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gIpuIVE3k

reply

[deleted]

How very typical of you. Every time I've heard you speak on this board, deux, you've never once attempted to speak like an adult. Maybe you should; you might actually get somewhere.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Ugh

reply

There you go again. LOL Don't you know, jackass, books are VERY valuable. Did you know it was a BOOK that informed me of the harms of porn?? Gah, you step so easily into it.

reply

"it keeps them from seeking shallow happiness."

holier than thou much?

"The Bible beautifully describes sex"

It also describes a man having sex with his daughters... ew...

reply

No hon, simply factual. And quite obviously there's a difference in the Bible between describing horrific events and promoting beautiful sex.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

*snort* That's just a sad question. He promotes love and self-control, respect, acceptance AND boundaries, purpose, dignity. Porn is the antithesis of all these things.

reply

[deleted]

I traded Jesus for Porn years ago. BEST. DECISION. EVER.

reply

Which would make you the most pitiful person here.

reply

LOL, so true!

reply

"As mentioned elsewhere on this message board, but worth repeating, adolescent males (most are males since females do not suffer from scopophilia) viewing porn demonstrates a physical and mental healthy behaviour that is typical of average males"

It's not the desire to look at porn that's unhealthy, but what the porn itself does.

reply

Porn does not do anything. Porn just is.

reply

Porn does a lot: it portrays sex and the people having it in very specific ways, and the human brain responds to that. Big time.

reply

Porn is a concept not some animus capable of action.
What you describe is the usual contents of some porn.

reply

Yes, it is but this film cannot be taken seriously. It's way too silly and G Rated. It's hilarious. If the subject is going to be covered it should never be covered on Lifetime or any basic cable or network channel. I'm not going to hate on Lifetime because I do enjoy their movies. Manly the older ones and they have done a pretty good job covering other subject matters, but this isn't one of them. I own it on DVD because JS is cute and I cannot pass up a fun GP.

Clark's destiny = Superman, Lex Luthor & Lois Lane.

reply

A movie where underraged girls gyrate around in G-strings is G-rated? I'd hate to know what you're comparing it to.

reply

It is not. Stop turning everything into an illness. Unless you consider Christianty and religion an addiction and treat it as a mental illness. This film was laughable.

reply

LMAO Sure, watching garbage *beep* isn't an illness but faith is. Tell that to missionaries.

reply