MovieChat Forums > Moartea domnului Lazarescu (2005) Discussion > medical system

medical system

posted 19 years ago by dmincu
16 replies | jump to latest

In my opinion the movie didn't present a bad medical system. Getting a CAT scan with just a little bit of effort? C'mon! I live in Canada and to get a stupid ultrasound took me 30 days and I heard a CAT scan is around 2-3 months...
The medical system presented in the movie **worked** unfortunatelly for a guy that didn't took care of his health.. and it might have been too late. Some of the characters were actually very close to reality. The film was missing other day to day aspects of the romanian medical system
- bribe ( a "senior" doctor has a salary of 3-4 hundreed dollars a month)
- the complete lack of drugs.
- hospitals are dirty, food in not edible.etc etc..
The should have picked a city outside Bucharest were things are twice as bad. Comming back to the subject the medical system in this movie was a decent one.. THOUGHS?

[–] iknebli 19 years ago

Yep, the medical systems looked decent, but we've seen a lot of "interesting" doctors and nurses, with attitudes varying from "I don't give a sh*t on this pacient" to "I care about this pacient". It's not only about CAT, drugs, ambulance, it's about people. Shooting in a dirty, badly equipped hospital could have been moved the viewer's attention from human characters to depressing hospital pictures.
As Puiu wants to create a series of movies about life in Bucharest, he obviously chose Bucharest hospitals. Also, in other cities it would've been impossible to recreate this "from one hospital to another" story, which was the backbone of this movie.

Just a question, dmincu, and I mean no offense: does your nick have something in common with *THAT* Dr. Mincu?

[–] dmincu 19 years ago

He he, nothing in common whatsoever. I wish I knew somebody in the government :)

[–] daniel-flavius 19 years ago

Well it depends; Bucharest is not the best city in Romania to live in. I live in Timisoara and I assure you, here things are at least twice as good. Here in the west side of the country you can actually find a village - Dumbravita (near Timisoara) fully equipped with a camera surveillance system: each square meter is supervised, in the local school there are 35 brand new computers, internet and a plasma TV in every classroom; somewhere else in Romania you can still find isolated villages without electricity.
The same happens in the medical system.
Romania right now is a place of contradiction, but the good news is, things are going to be better and with the admission in the EU (hopefully 01/2007), the salaries in every field of activity will rise and there will be less corruption. Corruption is generated mainly by poverty.
Ignorance is another matter and unfortunately, the whole world suffers.

[–] gabirb2001 19 years ago

Come on,let's be fair!Don't come on with this attitude like Bucharest is awful and you in the west of the country are so great!Timisoara medical university is one of the most corrupted in the country(bribes go up to 1000 USD per exam,plus let's not forget the fmous case of that doctor asking for sexual favours from students)and you can't tell me the Municipal hospital in Timisoara is better equiped than the one in Bucharest(the most modern state-equiped hospital in Romania).So come on,the situation in the movie kis one typical for all of Romania,things only get worse as we leave the capital!
I happen to be part of a family of doctors(my sister even works as a resident at the municipal univeritary hospital -neurology section,but she doesn't know the doctor shown in the movie:-))and the movie did not strike me as shocking at all-the doctors aren't that inhuman-my sister or my mother would have done the same things-after all Lazarescu didn't give a damn about his health!The system,as bad as it is,isn't worse than the one in the West,in what concerns the human material.It's the conditions of work that make the difference(when I went to France last holidays,the people there were shocked to hear that my mother only earns about 1/10 of the salary a doctor has there,not to speak of the respect for a doctor there)!

[–] daniel-flavius 19 years ago

And you know why Mr. wise guy?

Because in 1994 in Timisoara started the construction of a new, 5 star Municipal Hospital, who do you think stopped it?
The Health Department in Bucharest of course!
We suffered 15 years because Bucharest took our money and gave back only a small fraction. If Transylvania had been financially independent from Bucharest, not only things would be twice as better, but Transylvania would have been now fully integrated in the EU standards. But the neo-communists, who ruled Romania until last year, followed exactly the old communist management system.
And for the low salaries and the corruption I wonder who's to blame?
How is that for fair?

And this in not the only example! Here read this:
http://www.medfam.ro/rompres/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1782

Quote: "things only get worse as we leave the capital"
In a 100 km radius maybe...

Quote: "Timisoara medical university is one of the most corrupted in the country"

And you just happened to be the expert, and you also have proves. And you are so smart. And you care so much. And it's so easy to criticize on the problem. How about doing something for your country, instead of having a big mouth, and shocking French people?
I hope you learned something from your mother and choose some other job, because I guess you couldn't understand why there are people who volunteer for helping others (that's right volunteer means no money)! You do it for your neighbor, for the man in the street.
Oh, are you somehow saying it wasn't about that?
Then stick on commenting the movie witch has totally another point, it's about the human condition, not the Romanian medical system, but someone is too ignorant to realize that.
Conclusion: You missed the whole point of the movie.

So who's bulls**tting now? Remember 1994!

PS:I wouldn't have said all that but you got me started! ;-)

[–] blis_in_uandarlend 19 years ago

really now, this fighting thing has no purpose whatsoever.
but hey, this is the Romanian way, we keep accusing the other of being worse than ourselves.
he immediate reality is that we're all in the same pot together and it's better to join forces than blame each other.

both bucharest and timisoara have their goods and bads. it'd be great to learn how to get rid of those bads.

[–] soslow-1 19 years ago

I have to angry on the Timisoara Medical University as being one of the most corrupt institutions in the country, it`s a reality. Students pay 100 of dollars just be sure they get correct results on the tests. However I doubt the fact that Bucharest Medical University (Carol Davila) is less corrupt. In my opinion, even if underfunded, the best Medical System in the country is Cluj Napoca and it`s Medical University. Also we have to be fair, 35% of all foreign investment poored into Timisoara in the last 15 years, over 5 billion euros, with such a huge capital influx Timisoara could had managed itself, and not have the kinnda roads you have. Balming it all on the central government is not always the answer. Let us not forget that Bucharest is the biggest contributor to the GDP and has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. Also Prahova with it`s oil driven industry, Brasov the richest county in Romania, Constanta with it`s ports and transport infrastructure. It is absurd to say that ONLY TIMISOARA, or ONLY BUCHAREST bring GDP growth. As for the medical system as long as IT IS UNDERFINANCED it WILL BE A MESS. As long as a University graduate that works as a doctor is paid 150$ a month he will NOT CARE, the thing he will do is go to Canada, New Zealand, USA or other countries that offer him decent standards of living as a professional. Hungary is a good example for this, as over 5000 doctors left Hungary after the country joined the EU in 2004. The medical system will go downhill after Romania is granted membership status in the EU in 2007. Doctors will emigrate in the thousands, maybe we`ll be able to get the Ukrainian or Russian vodka drinkers medical professionals in here. So, as LONG AS THEY ARE NOT PAID they WILL NOT CARE. As long as a general practitioner in family medicine makes 250$ a month he won`t care unless you pay him to, and I`d do the same! These people don`t cut wood for a living, they save lives and they should have decent wadges.

[–] gabirb2001 19 years ago

soslow-1,you're right!that's exactly what i meant to say!the sistem as a whole is malfunctional.most of the doctors that go to med school do that because they want to help people,their intentions are good,but when they hit the real world(my sister,after 6 years of school as a resident,earns a 100 euros per month-not enough to even pay her rent in Bucharest!)they stop giving a damn and start becoming cynical-have you ever seen the way pacients act when at the doctor's,by the way?so until all this changes,we can't speak about helping people out of selfishness!it's easy to be idealistic on a full belly!

[–] Razvan23 19 years ago

unbelievable... you were the witnesses of the WORST medical system in Eastern Europe, where all the doctors and residents are so f*!#$ng stupid and at the same time, act so superior towards a simple paramedic with somewhat good intentions, unfortunately doubled by severe lack of knowledge. Not to mention the fact that nobody actually gave a f!@# about mr. lazarescu's state, and they didn't restrain themselves from treating him like sh!@. This was NOT an example of a good medical system !!! Whoever said otherwise should get sick in Romania (make a wish for a brain tumor) and THEN ! ... after they get healed (if they get healed) i will take their opinions into consideration. Cause some of you people just don't know what you're talkin` about or haven't got the "chance" to be treated in a Romanian hospital, where if you don't get twice as sick, you will surely get twice as poor than when you entered those hospital doors. F!@# i got so mad from watching this movie. If u get seriously sick here ... u die ... it's as simple as that.

[–] cristi007 19 years ago

Yes you are right about those missing aspects. You know who's the first to blame about that? I tell you: hospitals' managers put on their position on political criteria, in fact rubbers, ex-convicts, frauds, crooks, "working" side by side with some senior doctors. They "buy" their position (expensive, but well worth it.. ) They steal and sell drugs. They force you to bribe even they know they can't or won't help you. These guys are rich, and they act as if you came to beg even after you brought them money. They rather find other purposes for the budget and won't hire stuff to keep the hospitals working well.
And most of medical employees simply suck. Bad educated people that do not fit to work with sick ones who needs their attention, just took the wrong move when they chose carieer. It would be much better if the main problem would be the amount of many they receive from the government. But i tell you, it's not! and I think I'll be one of the first to stop paying medical assurances after seen what I get for what i pay. There are "private" assurance companies now and they seem to provide better options for us.

[–] ligiajurju 19 years ago

C'mon...everything is so real! I had my mother died last year in almost the same conditions in Romania. Not drunk, of course. I am talking about healthcare in Romania. Waching this movie was like i was living again that nightmare. Incredible realistic. I know every second of Lazarescu's night. I can recognize every nurse, every doctor and their behaviour. I can't believe how Puiu could change all this reality in a movie! He is great indeed. And i don't know how much is the medical system here. The most important thing (which i suppose Puiu tried to put in light) is the bad basic education that medical personal in Romania have. It is just a way of humanity to treat people with respect, to be human and try to keep hope in a sick man's mind. And unfortunately there are too less people like this working in romanian medical system. And the worst are the nurses. They treat you like in prison, and it is kind of prison, because is no way to escape. You are in their hands, and you're forced to endure everything because you are helpless in a hospital. I think that first of all, every medical personal in Romania have to have "good behaviour" courses to be addmited to work in a hospital. Romania have very good specialists with a very bad basic education and a bad management.
And yes, it is true even the fact that most of romanian people don't take care of their health. Everything is very real. Even the short discussions between caracters.
Unfortunately, i think that for the most romanian people wich have seen this movie, is a sad real story, not a black comedy.

[–] marcos88 19 years ago

Not all the hospitals in romania are like that. I had two motorcycle accidents in my life, and i`ve been treated both times at floreasca emergency hospital. Ambulance was incredible fast, doctors and nurses actualy helped me and pretty fast. And the hospital is super clean and very well equiped. Maybe if lazarescu would have been moved to floreasca would live to die by cancer :)
Or maibe the doctors seen that he will die anyway and he is pretty old, they got that bus crash and people that could actualy save them.
Anyway pretty sad.

[–] kollyn 19 years ago

Ligiajurju..I`m sorry about your mother. Couple of days ago I had to get my father to the ER room of the Municipal Hospital. After 5 minute in ER room, I had a MDL deja-vu. Without bribe and connections (the doctor from the ambulance told me.."try to find somebody you know in this hospital..or else...."), my father would be dead. You are right in every aspect of your comment. The awful truth is that I treat computers (which are part of my job) better than some of the doctors treat humans.

[–] dcojoc 19 years ago

So, you live in Ottawa and the medical system is just as bad as in Romania? Well, big surprise! I guess we in US get socialized health care right away.

[–] ralucamatza 19 years ago

OK... So stop about Romania being THe WORST, THE MOST, THE BADDEST, THE MIDDLE-AGEST, THE POOREST, THE BRAVEST, THE-you-name-it-EST. People would thing that there's only 3 countries in the world: Romania, US and Canada. Geez, no wonder why. I have never seen, found or hear the name "Romania" posted on a foreign site so many times before. Sh#t! LONG LIVE ROMANIA, THE ONLY COUNTRY WITH PROBLEMS! Geez, grow up.
Ah, and Timisoara was the first city to rebel against the comunists way back in '89... Just a thought.

[–] I_donthavefb_lol 18 years ago

In my opinion the movie didn't present a bad medical system. Getting a CAT scan with just a little bit of effort? C'mon! I live in Ottawa, Canada and to get a stupid ultrasound took me 30 days and I heard a CAT scan is around 2-3 months...

Thanks to you I have suddenly developed an irrational fear of Canadian hospitals.

The medical system wasn't the focus of the film, which is why it didn't matter that Mr. Lazarescu was probably doomed no matter who he saw. But the medical system was a disaster from the git-go. Remember how long it took for the ambulance to arrive? Remember how the neighbors said they didn't even expect one to show up?!