If Zeus created man, who created Superman?
If WW starts telling people all their religions are bogus, she might lose popularity with the public.
shareSuper Zeus ofc
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MovieChat Forums > Wonder Woman (2017) Discussion > If Zeus created man, who created Superma...
If Zeus is meant to be a cosmic god than he created Superman as well or rather Superman's race/species.
Weirdly she might tell them that the ancient Grecian religion is not mythology but true and applies to all humans. Probably a recipe for a public backlash, but on the other hand once she explains her origin (ie. being a model fashioned by God from clay) this might interest a number of people who might reflect on the Genesis allegory which asserts that Adam was made from dust by God.
She's the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, not made from clay.
shareIf the film is of any relevance we have to accept that the words that came out of WW mouth are accurate and not at all contradicted by the rest of the film. She said she was made from clay and brought to life by Zeus. Zeus is her father in a certain sense and this in no way contradicts the manner in which she was formed and brought to life. Supporting the contention of the film is the comic narrative history, and thus it can be seen from the following excerpts that the clay origin story is the core and original story for WOnder Woman and therefore it is accurate to say that the character was formed from clay.
"In the late 20th Century, Hippolyta was instructed to mold some clay from the shores of Paradise Island into the form of a baby girl. Six members of the Greek Pantheon then bonded the soul to the clay, giving it life. Each of the six also granted Diana a gift: Demeter, great strength; Athena, wisdom and courage; Artemis, a hunter's heart and a communion with animals; Aphrodite, beauty and a loving heart; Hestia, sisterhood with fire; Hermes, speed and the power of flight. Diana grew up surrounded by a legion of sisters and mothers."
- http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_(Diana_Prince)
"Diana is a princess from a secluded, all-women island paradise now known as Themyscira, which was granted to the Amazons by the Greek gods. She’s the daughter of Queen Hippolyta, and she was molded from clay."
[...]
"That Wonder Woman is considered a “tricky” character is because she contradicts the rather modern notion that heroism is born from tragedy and pain. The version we see during Crisis on Infinite Earths is a great example of how female power need not replicate the bloodthirsty vengeance of male counterparts to be worthwhile. Perhaps no version of Wonder Woman has understood this less than Brian Azzarello’s misguided, offensive take on the character in 2011, during the previous revamp of the DC brand known as New 52.
[continued]
[continued]:
While writer Azzarello and artist Cliff Chiang’s Wonder Woman run has been praised in certain corners, it seems to only be done so by people who want her to be something she’s not: a typical heroine defined by brutality more than anything else. Azzarello’s disinterest in the character isn’t a secret. He’s referred to Themyscira as something out of a “Corona commercial.” He derided her as being mere window dressing when it comes to DC’s Trinity. But the worst insults were in the pages of the comics itself. In issue No. 7 of the series, Diana learns that she wasn’t actually made from clay, but gets her power from a man: She is the demigoddess daughter of Zeus. The Amazons aren’t powerful immortals, but actually have sex with sailors to keep their ranks and sell the male children to Hephaestus for weapons. This obliterates the feminist nature of Wonder Woman’s origin and flattens the fascinating weirdness of the character, turning her into the kind of warrior goddess we’ve seen countless times before. It also makes her seem kind of idiotic. How did she not notice what the Amazons were doing before? It’s the sort of gritty upgrade that demonstrates a great misunderstanding and disrespect of the character."
[...]
"The Wonder Woman film currently in theaters — written by comic writer Allan Heinberg with a story by Zack Snyder, Jason Fuchs, and Heinberg — seems to conflate multiple takes on her origin. In one trailer, she explains to Steve that her mother formed her out of clay and Zeus gave her life. But as the film continues, it becomes clear that Azzarello’s origin is more than just a passing inspiration. This creates a schism within the film itself between the feminist ethos it leans toward and Azzarello’s origin, which nullifies it. That this origin — the more simplistic demigoddess take that ran for only a few years in the comics — will be the first introduction many have to the character’s backstory does her a disservice."
- http://www.vulture.com
WW's words are accurate, that's why when she says Ares is her brother, she is acknowledging she has accepted the truth that she is the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. Being brought to life from clay doesn't make someone your parent.
You may not like the writing, but some people didn't like Parker's webs coming out of his body in Raimi's movies. But this is what the filmmakers went with.
So now you can't be feminist if you have a father? Huh?
With Gods it might be different. With Zeus there are several instances where he had sex with human women, but there is at least one instance where his progeny emerged by purely metaphysical means: the goddess Athena was born from his head which in turn conveyed properties of the mind such as wisdom to her own character. So clay formula in turn would not be such a weird premise for mythological characterisation. Zeus being a father therefore can find its expression in different ways.
It's not the writing as such it's just that the story is open to different interpretations. I can say that Ares and Diana are divine siblings yet also acknowledge that she lived a mortal existence growing up like other children but in a specialised culture that emphasised marital values. Why would a divine being need to "grow up" - that is surely a mortal facility. So does that not lend consideration then to Diana having being fabricated from the material world to begin with, whether it be animated clay or biological molecules that form a being through reproduction? The energy of Zeus as "electrons" transformed that clay matter into living flesh but a special kind of biology such that Diana would have a goddess "matrix" or structure. So because she inherited Zeus' power and some of his persona (probably quite close in nature to the goddess Athena) she can be a goddess and is one in fact.
Clearly one can be a feminist with a father, though I think the premise might be that male influence can impose male opinions about women are and which daughters adopt uncritically. Feminism is a reaction against the experience of being oppressed and is a motivator to undo the social conditions which creates the oppressive scenarios. But what if females grew up without fathers? Would they assume that women have inherent self-worth and have no special social limitations, no discrimination to cope with or counter? A natural, non-ideological feminism would be part of the culture not a political creation.
That's the problem when mix different series together.
It all gets mixed up and becomes a confusing mess.
People believe in their own mythologies all over the world, it doesn't make them true. This also applies to Wonder Woman.
shareHmm.
You make an interesting point.
But how do you explain their powers as Amazons?
It's entirely a Greek myth.
In their world, the Greek mythology is true.
It's like taking away their origin if you consider it as some delusion.
As someone else once said, its all true. Especially the lies.
shareI'm not familiar with that saying.
Could you elaborate on it ?
If things people say are different, such as religion, then in the context of a universe like this(DC) we can assume that all the origin stories are true. One story doesnt make another untrue. Religion, as with myth is all about interpretation. Catholics and protestants believe much of the same thing, but theres only really a few minor differences. And to each group they are true and false to each other. Then you look at islam, jesus was nothing more than a prophet. The greeks had a name for god, but his description easily fits that of the christian god. So if we assume that all these things are connected we could also assume that groups such as the amazons believe that part of the story that they perceive to be truth and anything else is a lie. But just because they dont believe it doesnt make it a lie, it just makes it a lie to them. Jesus is the son of god is a lie to islam. Jesus is a prophet is a lie christians. But maybe both groups just have bits of the story and can only make sense of those parts by considering them a whole and thus discounting anything else.