MovieChat Forums > Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist (2005) Discussion > Both films suck!!!

Both films suck!!!

posted 19 years ago by max_dropout
29 replies | jump to latest

What the hell is the matter with you people? First of all, I think a lot of you are swayed by Schrader's past credits -- none of which include anything of substantial note IN TERMS OF DIRECTION, save for maybe Witch Hunt (A COMEDY). While I enjoy a lot of productions he's been associated with, he's not all that great a director. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that he's made some TERRIBLE films. Dominion lacks energy. It's pretty torpid in terms of story. The acting is atrocious. Whoever tells you that the acting in this production vs. Harlin's version is somehow enhanced or better is just trying to fluff up their counter culture cred by pulling the anti-Hollywood card. Dominion is CHOCKFUL of painfully executed moments, even outside of the characters. Those Burtonesque dream sequences with the flying clocks and crooked doors? Oh hell no.

The difference in terms of films is that Dominion spares us a few terrible cliches, and I wouldn't necessarily say that's a positive thing. However, I maintain that there are very DEEP anti-Semitic overtones throughout both films, which no one seems to have picked up on. People are talking as if they're watching two totally different productions, and this is not the case. Harlin's film borrows liberally from very WEAK SOURCE MATERIAL. Schrader's film is inherently flawed, and Harlin came in and tried to fix it to the studio's liking. Would I say he butchered it? I think he made it slightly more tolerable if anything. His version has a somewhat better pacing, moves a little more lightly, and actually has a FEEL to it, whereas the tone of Schrader's version is pretty vague. Very few directors can get away with a script like this. Frankenheimer, who died shortly before he was slated to direct, might have been able to pull it off. Unfortunately, Mr. Schrader is no Frankenheimer. He's not even a Blatty in terms of direction.

Compared to the third film, this script is JUVENILE tripe. In terms of character, Legion's dialog is tighter than a fourteen year old's snatch. When you compare either of these scripts with Blatty’s sequel, the difference in quality is night and day. I cannot blame Schrader entirely for this effort’s failure, since he didn’t write it; however, any romantic aspirations he has for this genre he needs to relegate to mere fantasy; this just isn't his forte. I would go as far as to say that this film is blatantly unatmospheric. The production comes across as sleak and clean. It takes more than sepia tones to recreate the mood of the first film. No grit. Bad photography. Bad locations. Little creativity in general. Even if the characterizations were somehow, oh, say, AURALLY RELEVANT to the first film, Schrader probably would have still screwed up their execution.

Anyway, just because Hollywood frowned on this production doesn't necessarily make it GREAT. Both versions are pretty lousy. Sorry to burst your bubbles.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

It's great if you perhaps have a very limited point of reference for the word "great"... this is not a great film. It's incredibly flawed -- it's even worse than Heretio, which I never thought possible.

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[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

Saying Legion is flawed is like punting a baby across your front yard. Sure, it would be easy, but morally, it's wrong. Legion was butchered on the same terms that Dominion was, only LEGION'S source material shows glimmers of true greatness in terms of DIALOG, ACTING, and SUSPENSE. Legion's exorcism sequence was tacked on in much the same way that Harlin's stuff was tacked onto EXORCIST: The Beginning.

The flaws? I mentioned them. The camera work is very poor, but in terms of story telling, you'll find complaints all over this board, such as the implied clash between the Africans and the British guard. One instant, they imply *beep* about to hit the fan, and then the next day everyone's skipping around holding hands. Sorry lady, no dice.

Legion has very few continuity errors, actually, despite how it had been hacked to bits by the studio. Dourif and Scott turn in rousing performances. What do you have this film? The-The-Theoretically? I guess that's the extent of the script's character development. In terms of a film with a pontiff for a protagonist, they manage to scoop up every LAME movie romance CLICHE in the world. PROSAIC. PEDESTRIAN. POORLY WRITTEN. That's the film's main problem. BAD WRITING. Legion's script IS BRILLIANT. Even POST HACK JOB on the film, some of the writing is on par with the work of Neil Simon, which makes it even MORE fascinating, because they manage to breathe depth and emotion into the characters in a very short time frame.

DOMINION is even inferior to THE HERETIC, and that's saying a great deal. I'm just shocked the dude who did MISHIMA was involved with this. It's much too clean, and the photography isn't compelling in any way. Visually, a dud, and in terms of writing, it's a crashing bore.

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[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

Hey Corey, I just wanted to thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to this conversation.

I'm being facetious by the way.

Go on. I'll give you some time to look up "facetious."

fiy, www.dictionary.com

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[–] WTFCinema 19 years ago

this movie is awesome. This movie was a hell of alot more entertaining that the beginning. Everyone knew what would happen in Harlin's version. However, with Cheche becoming "perfection" is something new and refreshing to see. It showed evil for what it really is; powerful and deceitful. It seemed more powerful in this one than in the beginning.

[–] TylerDurden0730 19 years ago

Honestly when I bought this film today I was expecting it to be amazing considering it was coming from Paul Schraeder and only had the feat of overcoming Renny Harlin's version, who when I read a long time ago that he was taking over the director's chair I knew that the film was going to crap. Surprisingly after watching this movie tonight I realized that both films are pretty bad. Merrin wasn't developed in either one of them, I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd rather watch The Beginning than Dominion because at least it gets pop out scary at some points. I'm not a fan of that type of horror but in Schraeder's I wasn't scared in one part of the movie. I was completely disappointed, especially by the lighting in the movie. It didn't have any kind of eerie or dark feeling to it like the original did. Out of the whole series I would have to say the first is the best and only good one. I'm completely disappointed with all sequels and the prequels, which for a while I was quite looking forward to until I saw them.

[–] Feeroper 19 years ago

I was sooo looking forward to this version. I felt completely let down after seeing it. While the Harlin version is stupid as all hell, this version (IMO) was actually worse. If only because the acting in Harlins was better and the look was better. I found this film boring to look at (Im not talking about the gore, I mean the lighting in general), and some of the acting (particularily the character of Rachel) were so flat! I wanted to like this movie so much, but I couldnt. The poor CG didnt bother me, it just was not presented well. Surprising for me because I generally like most of Scraeders work. The premise (for both films) was there, but neither executed well at all. I found Harlins version to be more atmospheric, but too ridden with tierd horror cliches, plus an incredibly bad ending. Schraeders rid itself of the cliches, but lacked any dimmension or atmosphere. The only thing I enjoyed of Schraeders over Harlins was the inclusion of the full Nazi Sequence at the beginning of the film as opposed to dispersed throughout. However, even this scene was poorly done. I liked the inclusion of the deformed boy, something I think Harlin should have kept, instead of his OH LOOK, A TWIST! ending. However the follow through with Scraeders was terrible, the ending sequence was poorly done and the exorcism sequence (which had alot of potential) just totally fell apart. I guess its my own fault for getting hyped up for this version. However, this is just my opinion.

[–] mad_andy-1 19 years ago

DOMINION is even inferior to THE HERETIC

I'm sorry but that's just BS. Dominion may not be great for you but it's no way worse that that mess called exorcist 2: the heretic.

[–] Lightman42 19 years ago

No, Exorcist 2 is underrated. Both Shrader's and Harlin's films are awful, and the worst in the series. I would say Shrader's is a little worse. There both the same movie in so many ways. Exorcist 4 needed to move the story forward; Heretic did the back story already, and did it better, utilizing a younger Max Von Sydow who is Merrin. They needed to move the story into the future, not necessarily into space, but even that would have been more interesting. Exorcist is over, and what a crappy note to end on, two terrible movies about the same thing! I wish they'd make an alternate Robocop 3.

[–] ubertwisted 19 years ago

Ugh. The quicker Exorcist II is excised from canon (which both Dominion and The Beginning do a pretty good job of making happen), the better.

[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

I don't know, Iceman, I think the third one really should be re-examined. It's been years since many people have seen it, and I think the dialog, characters, and overall atmosphere of the film are really worth revisiting. I think it succeeds on its own, which makes me really curious about what Blatty's version is like.

[–] nrhowley 19 years ago

the only reason why "let them eat lead" doesn't think these movies are scary, is because he is a "skeptic" ok. Exorcist The Beggining wasn't scary at all. But it did provide a lot of information. If you arent very scared of films like this, then dont brag about a great directors movie that didnt scare you ok. some people were terrified of this film, and so was I, but dont try to tell people that this WONT actually happen to somebody, because it can. I've seen it happen. Its not pretty.

But it does have some good gore though right? at least give it that.

[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

Contrary to what you might think, Exorcist III induced a strong sense of dread in me, and there were a few sequences that made me JUMP. I think that's a genuinely eerie film. The original Exorcist is creepy as hell, too. The Spiderwalk sequence grabs me everytime I see it. There's NOTHING remotely unnerving about the new films.

[–] Lightman42 19 years ago

If you compare the two part fours to the previous three films, it's immediately apparent that the edginess is absent. Let them eat lead; I like what you said about 'the sense of dread'. That is a good way to describe the feel of the exorcist films, and whether you want to accept it or not, Heretic had it to, it was just very stylized. John Boorman is a great filmmaker. He brought something very nice to the story line, and again, I think the film is underrated. It's become like a popculture fact that Exorcist 2 is one of the worst film sequals in history, and it's just not true. I would watch Heretic a thousand times over before ever setting my eyes on the two sad attempts at the prequel that ended any possibility for future Exorcist films... until McG directs the remake of the original that is. I can't wait for that. I want a matrix shot of that puke coming out. Just watch.

[–] poofta1970 19 years ago

Both prequels are poor rip-offs of Manns 'The Keep' and neither are even upto the standard of Boorman's 'The Heretic' (which at least looked good)

Someone should wrestle the rights off Morgon Creek and give them back to Blatty. And while they are at it pay him to restore 'Legion' so we have at least one decent sequel.

[–] Indra_1000_Eyes 19 years ago

Well, I waited about a year to see "Dominion" and, although my opinion isn't terribly relevant, feel somewhat compelled to join this discussion.

A couple of points:

1. I have to agree with emxk about the superiority of "Dominion" over "The Beginning." There was nothing in Harlin's version that could even vaguely make it kin to Friedkin's original. This in itself would be fine...breaking with the original is preferable to slavish mimicking of it. But there was nothing new or interesting said or done in "The Beginning." Twists in movies are fine, but I prefer them left out of films that at least claim to deal with a man's redemption.
I just expected something a bit more compelling.

2. Which isn't to say "Dominion" isn't seriously, seriously flawed. I felt there were plenty of missed opportunities in "Dominion." On the commentary, Schrader tries to excuse the lack of horror in the film to its basic premise: that an innocent was not in danger, but was rather convalescing through his possession.

I disagree. I actually found the premise of Cheche's possesion far more disturbing than Raegan's in the original. Who could possibly be more vulnerable than a retarded adolescent? There's just something revolting about the idea of a demon taking advantage of a complete and utter innocent.

And of course Cheche was in danger. He may not have been cut up like Raegan, but his soul and mind were in danger...his innocence was at stake.

3. So, I truly enjoyed the premise of Dominion, felt it far superior. But Schrader missed some fantastic opportunities. I felt he spent far too much time focusing on the violent atmosphere of the dig site and the conflict between the British and the Africans. This would have served as a fantastic backdrop, creating an atmosphere of disharmony, much as Raegan's troubled family created a tense atmosphere for her story. It could have been used to echo a more detailed, and prolonged struggle between Cheche/Satan and Merrin. But the setting overwhelmed what I felt should have been the central conflict.

4. Had Schraeder spent more time developing the central story line, the possession of Cheche could have occurred more gradually, as could his physical transformation. We see sparks of philosophy in Cheche's malevolance, and it would have made a fascinating contrast to the vulgarity of Reagan's demon if that spark had been allowed to shine. It also would have allowed for a more prolonged exoricsm, as well as a more gradual transformation of Merrin himself. Although this is supposed to be his story, we see very little of his struggle or redemption. It happens almost as suddenly as in Harlin's film.

5. The exoricm was very anticlimactic. I found it quite disappointing. One of the compelling things about exorcism is the ritual involved...the struggle has a mythological context. This was lacking.

6. Yeah, the CGI sucked it hard in Dominion, just as it did in Harlin's film. They could well have done without the hyenas in both films and the cattle in Dominion. The cows and hyenas add almost nothing that wild dogs (remember the first film?) could have lent. And, really, let's be honest. Hyenas look pretty fake anyway. They used shots of real hyenas in Dominion...and they look like cheap stuffed animals.

7. All in all, that's about what I thought.

[–] BoogiewithStu 19 years ago

"I maintain that there are very DEEP anti-Semitic overtones throughout both films, which no one seems to have picked up on"

Please explain. Yes, there are Nazi's are in them both, Jews are killed in both, but nowhere is this portrayed as a good thing. If anything, these scenes show extreme human evil. The rest is Christian imagery. How are these movies anti-Semitic/anti-Jew?

[–] max_dropout 19 years ago

I think the finale of Harlin's The Beginning, where they convert a dying Jew to a Christian to save her soul from eternal damnation is obvious and pretty audacious.

[–] djhowls 19 years ago

Dominion takes a more old testament view of Lucifer (the angel) so in that respect it is pro-semitic in taking the predominantly Jewish text as its starting point

The beginning is all christian fantasy ......the devil as we know today did not take shape until the christians incorporated the pagan god pan into their mythology and assumed his form to be their devil

I applaud Dominion for taking its source material (and the audience) more seriously. Its a shame the film was never finished

Is "Harlin" Finnish for "Hack" ?

[–] BoogiewithStu 19 years ago

They baptize her as part of the ritual and because she really has no faith. She's a Jew in name only, which is only added so that Merrin would sympathize with her. I sense no ill will towards Jews. They could have made her character any other religion and they would have Baptized her. The person needs to participate in the Exorcism and truly believe that it would work.

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