I saw Exorcist: The Beginning, and I liked it despite what people say. It was good, nuff said. I knew about the original version, and I thought "maybe something was a miss..." or something.
So let me ask this;
Exorcist: The Beginning and Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist.
Please list the pros/cons of each film, and which is better and which is worth getting?
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Cool, glad to hear someone not freak out over someone liking the beginning. I liked it. When I first heard they were prequeling the exorcist I was excited and worried that it would suck donkey ballz but was pleased with "The Beginning" shocking more than scary or creepy, aside from the CGI Jackals I loved it. Same story that got me interested in "The Beginning" talked all about the two film versions and hinted at a possibility of releasing them both on DVD together. Glad it didn't happen that way, there are enough questions to answer without having to first ask "which version did you get?" I've been wanting to see the Schrader version ever since I read that article. I've heard nothing but good things about it.
I just wish I could lay my hands on a copy of the original cut of EXORCIST III: LEGION.
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I liked the beginning of Exorcist: the beginning. It was suitably creepy. Then everything else went to hell in handbasket. Too much gore, not enough emphasis on story. I don't believe that audiences have to be slammed in the head to get a point. Just rented Dominion and although I like it better than The beginning, it's still pretty tepid stuff. But still.... Oh I liked the little nod to "the matyrdom of St. Stephen" scene wtih Father Francis, that was just too darn pretty.
shareDominion's better, but not by as much as you'd think.
Exorcist: The Beginning (5.5/10)
Pros:
Stellan Skarsgard
Izabella Scorupco
Production Design
Cinematography
Cons:
Clichéd secondary characters
Illogical "twist" ending
Terrible visual effects
Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist (6.5/10)
Pros:
Stellan Skarsgard
Gabriel Mann
Billy Crawford
Slow-burn horror
Interesting plot
Well-developed characters
Cons:
CLARA BELLAR (she's horrid!)
Terrible visual effects
Lack of focus (who's the main character here? It seems to be Merrin, but he spends most of the movie just standing around sulking until he finally confronts Pazuzu)
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When he says she's horrid, was he talking about her looks or about her acting Wesside II?
shareDOMINION IS BETTER.
I have to agree that while I liked Dominion a lot, Clara Bellar was poorly cast.
She has the wrong voice, attitude; and does a bad job making us buy already iffy lines. Skarsgaard and the others manage wonderfully; but she just doesn't. Lovely though, I must add.
A user comment on Dominion, which lists at the end three cons to the film nails it right on; I would suggest reading it, a very good comment.
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i thought dominion was better than the begining, but its still not a particularly good film, drags on and the ending confrontation was more amusing than scary due to a very silly voice on the demon. give them both a miss, you'll be none the worse off for it and save yourself over 3 hours of your life to do something much more interesting.
sharei watched exorcist the beginning at the cinema and it didnt scare me at all,it was
wooden and i made the decsision not to bother buying it,i rented dominion today and it jangled most of the nerves The Exorcist did.IMHO dominion is a far and away
a better film,and i will be adding this to my dvd collection,as i now regard this the true prequel as it pressed all the right buttons for me
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There is also a very dated 'sky' effect during the exterior shots toward the end of the film. Didn't seem at all necessary.
shareYou know what? Wierdly enough the "sky effect" which Shrader used in Dominion's end (I hope you're referring to the greenish glow that takes over the upper half of the screen) was interesting. It grew on me, and I decided I really like it. It gave the film a wierd, 70s tinge which was effective. Watch again with an open mind.
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Beginning gave me more than I expected from a movie made by Harlin and Dominion gave me less than I expected from a movie made by Schrader (and after all the hype). All in all I wasn't pleased with both of them and I can't say which of them I prefer.
shareDominion was never really finished so in that respect it is a far better film (in its rough cut as exists) by a far better director
Dominion only needed a few reshoots and a bit of trimming. Clara Bellar wasn't THAT bad......a far more realistic concentration camp survivor than scorupco who was just ridiculous in the role
just think of all the jillion of hours harlin must have spent polishing his turd!!
"Clara Bellar wasn't THAT bad......a far more realistic concentration camp survivor than scorupco"
My thoughts exactly. For someone who has been in a KZ till five years ago she sure is in harmony with her feelings (is that the right term?).
Bellar's performance is the worst major character role in the series. Scorupco out-acts her step for step.
share
Bellar's performance is the worst major character role in the series. Scorupco out-acts her step for step.
Scorupco gets naked in the shower you mean :)
I think the Exorcist, the beginning was a much better movie. How can people deny this. Bellar's performance doesn't compare to scorupco. Looks aside, I mean she was flat out terrible. Stellan's performance was good in both films, but the Dominion was not as scary, maybe a bit more realistic, but in cinema, especially on a topic like Exorcism, realism is not essential, exaggeration helps. There was far less gore in dominion, and the film was not as scary as beginning. I say Beginning takes the cake.
"Behind every fortune there is a crime" -Mario Puzo. "Only the dead see the end of war" - PLato
they're very different from each other. i saw 'Beginning' in the theater, and while it made me jump a few times, it was more of a 'boo' scare type of film, and the conclusion was laugh-out-loud ridiculous.
'Dominion,' on the other hand, is not really a horror movie so much as a psychological thriller, more faithful to the theme of the original, and especially to the source novel, which, despite being very scary, is more about the priest Damien Karras' crisis of faith than about conventional frights or 'fighting the devil'.
scorupco is obviously a lot more fun to look at than bellar, and she seems to have more of a reason for being in the film, whereas the bellar character in 'dominion' doesn't seem to belong for any other reason than to provide a 'love interest' and a fellow holocaust survivor for merrin to identify with.
i thought 'beginning' was a little more 'fun' to watch, whereas 'dominion' is more thought-provoking. realism is not essential to a horror film, but part of what makes the original 'exorcist' so scary is that it's presented in a very realistic way, tapping into fairly universal fears about possession and the possible influence of some invisible spiritual evil over human events. 'dominion' tries to take this a step further by presenting a meditation on the way we view the influence of evil personified--Satan, Hitler, etc.--in contrast to the reality that evil is part of human nature (the clear allusions in 'Dominion' between the Nazis and the English soldiers are meant to highlight this conflict).
i much preferred 'dominion,' because it was easier to take seriously. 'The Beginning' was just too over-the-top--not necessarily a bad thing, but a disservice to the original 'Exorcist,' one of the few examples of a horror film that is genuinely terrifying without relying on a lot of gore, special effects, or in-your-face fun-house scares.
'The Beginning' was just too over-the-top--not necessarily a bad thing, but a disservice to the original 'Exorcist,'
Speaking of the original, How could any movie be more over the top that the original? There is no possible way a persons head can spin around 360. Essentially the devil will snap it's victims neck every time. IT CANT BE DONE! and how about the two foot long tongue? Dont get me wrong I love the original. It is the scariest movie ever. That being said, The Beginning is more true to the original theme than Dominion. I saw the beginning in the theater, I scared the sh*t out of me. If you can accept a spinning head ,then CGI hyenas are acceptable as well. And as far as the twist ending, Harlin had to put a twist on. How satisfying would it have been if the little boy was the one who was possessed? It would have been too obvious and a cheap rip off of the original.
Schrader's Dominion was well made and thoughtfull, but it's climax lacked punch. the devil was too easy to conquer, and wasnt all that terrifing. He seamed to be just a supernatural badguy. This is a Disney Excorcist. Excorcist is HORROR. It doesnt have to be more thought provoking, the concept alone is pure horror.
I think Morgan Creek got it right when they pulled the plug on this installment, This film would not have satisfied anyone going into a theater with excorcist expectations.
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Illusion? Then I guess the gallons of vomit were illusions as well. If it were all an illusion then she should have picked her own head up by the hair, ripped it off her neck and shoved it in her crotch. No I believe it was an over the top effect.
Thats all.
I'm not talking about Gore and CGI. I'm talking about the visuals that stick in your mind long after the movie is done, Why because Its all about demonic possesion. Whats more terrifing that that? If Linda Blair just got prettier while she was tied to her bed, as Cheche did, the movie would have sucked. Its the whole point. Taking an innocent lovely child and slowly destroy her inside and out, Its cruel and evil. Thats why it scares the hell out of people. So I guess some gore is nessesary for an excorcist movie.
Thats it I guess, I'll admit The beginning has plenty of plot holes but I think it makes sense.
I have to step in here ans ask... where on earth do they get the idea that its an illusion? There is NOTHING in the original exorcist to imply that it is an illusion, and I have never once heard that. And yes, they is the "two foot tongue" as well. I am sorry, but I have to agree the the beginning was not more over the top than the original exorcist, WITH the sole exception of the woman climbing along the wall.
sharewell, for one thing, schrader's version mirrored the pacing of the original. i think part of what makes the original 'exorcist' really terrifying is that there's a slow, creepy build-up with a lot of patient characterization (particularly of damien karras and chris mcneil), so that by the time the really shocking stuff starts to happen, you've been drawn in and have begun to see the story as realistic. you also care about the characters and understand their dilemmas. we can understand exactly how karras feels when the demon takes on the voice and appearance of his mother, because we have seen how he struggles with guilt over what has happened to her.
i don't think the original is over-the-top at all, when compared to any other horror film of the day. the gore in 'exorcist' is much less gratuitous than 'the beginning.' i was less bothered by how fake the CGI hyenas looked than by the fact that their appearance ripping the little boy limb from limb didn't really add to the story and sort of spoiled the build-up to the big confrontation. and yes, you can get more over-the-top than the head spinning--having a demon-possessed woman crawling around on the ceiling like spider-man, humping the priest, and then running down the hallway in a bath of light like maria von trapp on crack.
all that said, i DO agree that schrader's version did not come close to living up to the original, i found 'the beginning' more entertaining (in a crude way), and i also totally understand why morgan creek didn't release schrader's version.
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Schraeder's film dissapointed me.
I mean, I expected Harlin's film to be awful, and that's what I got.
At least it TRIED to be a movie that connected to the EXORCIST.
The argument that Schraeder was not trying to make a horror movie is weak. That's like making a coming of age comedy about a young misunderstood boy and calling it a prequel to Halloween.
I think, however, that there was a lot of potential in the movie, and if Paul Schraeder would have just been more focused, it could have been very good. Hell, if the guy who came on to edit the movie had been a little more cut happy, and the music had been a bit creepier, it would have been a tighter, more entertaining movie.
I was suprised to see a movie that lacked any real direction, or any real mood.
While I do prefer the storyline in DOMINION, I'm suprised that I find the execution of BEGINING more coherent, with clear ideas of what the director was trying to accomplish.
I know it's cool to rag on Renny cause he's "popcorn" and to praise Schraeder because he's "intellectual", but that's exactly why I think BEGINING is the better of the two.
Harlin succeeds at "popcorn". He makes a stupid, sometimes fun, bad horror film, which was obviously his goal.
Schraeder has a loftier goal, but doesn't come anywhere near achieving it, mostly because he doesn't seem to know what his goal is. And you know what?
That to me is the very definition of pretentious:
The desire to be intellectual without a clear thought.
your mum ate my dog
Scorupco gets naked in the shower you mean :)
Yeah, that was nice...
Anyway, ahem. In terms of actual character and acting ability, Scorupco was just much, much better.
Mr Schrader has taken alot of stick for this film when most of it was John Frankenheimers vision
Schrader was hired as a jobbing director to replace him due to ill health at the last minute
Blatty likes Schraders film and abhors Harlins That has to be the final word on the matter in anyones universe!!
Dude, don't forget Blatty made the just okay Excorcist 3. He's not the final word, at least when it comes to filmmaking.
I personally thought Schrader's was too meandering and the story was sort of ill conceived, like the experimental first draft of a better movie. Many ideas were underdeveloped and too much of the film seemed sort of thrown together and dispassionate, like those involved didn’t really give a damn about much except getting their paycheck.
Harlin’s was just plain god awful, no pun intended. The acting was bad, the story was over the top and cheesy, the characters were poorly developed, and basically it’s hard to find something positive about it.
Do I look like someone who cares what god thinks?
"just okay Exorcist 3"??????????????????????????????????????????????????, ???????????????????, ????????????????????(still not getting what you just said) i shouldn't be so surprised because I see it all the time but i'm getting very frustrated with this love for all the new crap out of hollywood and it will continue as long as people continue to support it which is a metaphor for everything going wrong in the world.
Legion= best horror movie, best exorcist movie, I would almost go so far to say it's the best movie of all time for shear originality and professionalism.
I've noticed this in all the friends I try to show Legion to, or nearly all. I will say a line from the movie a few minutes after it was said and they will be like, "what, that was just in the movie". It shows how all too often people are not watching movies as intellectuals, they are watching as morons.
"the whole world is a homicide victim father, would a god who is good invent something like death?"
-Legion
that one liner is better than any of the other exorcist movies, better than any horror movie really.
what came first the movie or the trailer?
Exorcist 3: Legion was a pretty good flick, combining intellectual seriousness with strong rising tension and several good spooky scare moments. The ending was a little corny, but I read that Blatty was pressured into providing a bloodier, more shocking finale by the studio jerks, and that they wrote in the father morning character in post-production because they figured you have to have an exorcist in the movie in order to get away with calling it 'The Exorcist III.'
legion still stands on its own, though--it definitely gave me the creeps, and i like any movie where patrick ewing has a cameo as the angel of death.
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"I thought the devil was too easy to beat, but that is resolved by showing that he wasn't really beaten, but rather is waiting to do future battle with Father Merrin."
Except that in the original exorcist, it is commented that the exorcism nearly killed him... I am currently going to rewatch the films.
The Beginning
Pros
- gore
- great fight between Turkana and soldiers
- good shots
- good acting
Cons
- no tension
- bad script
- bad directing
- no link with The Exorcist 1973
7/10
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Dominion
Pros
- good script
- psychological thriller
- better match with The Exorcist 1973
- better acting
- not just a movie about an exorcism, but also a movie about cultural differences
- longer Kamerling sequence
Cons
- bad CGI
- bad make-up
- shots weren't that good in terms of composition
8/10
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Beginning have the worst plot and worst acting i ever seen!!
While Dominion is watchable and look more professional!
While Dominion is watchable and look more professional!
I disagree, I found Dominion look more like a B-roll sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it was FAR better that Dominion but sometimes the shots weren't good in terms of composition.
Beginning looked more like a big budget movie, instead of Dominion, but still I believe Dominion is far better by the acting and script.
Exorcist 4:
Pros:
Good Pacing (well at least better than Dominion)
Cons:
The Rest of the movie
Dominion:
Pros:
Makeup
Cons:
The rest of the movie.
My Choice: Exorcist 4 (By a very miniscule margin!)
Peace,
BuggieBlade
Exorcist: the Beginning - way over the top, great photography, fast and effectively paced, atmospheric, NOT believable, an okay performance from Stallan, under developed characters (except for the female lead), too derivative of other horrors, too gory, cheesy but enjoyable. 6/10
Dominion: fairly believable, stronger character development, a stronger performance from Stallan, visually flat, very poorly paced, droll, lacking suspence, but at the same time, a more mature film... 5/10
in the end, entertainment vaulue wins out for me.