UFC 208 for women's new 145 title, but no Cyborg - The Ultimate Fighter (2005) Discussion

[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

Apparently Cyborg has issues making 145! She needs a "full camp" which is minimum 10 weeks or she won't fight. Supposedly the UFC asked her 2 times to fight, but it was under the "full camp" 10 weeks so she said, "no".

I know she will walk through other women fighters at 145, but she isn't the "super star" other fighters are. She needs to sell a bit and play the game.

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[–] TitoVicandJoey 8 years ago

Just more BS really. Im about done with all the build up crap. I wana see fights, all this bs can be for the newbies and sometimes fight fans.

"Hi, excuse me. Can you use your karate to open up this pickle jar?"

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[–] Leveticus 8 years ago

They had a documentary of her trying to make weight. Its very hard to do and dangerous since it risks potential brain, heart and kidney issues, also low blood pressure and abnormally fast heart rate due to severe dehydration.

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[–] My_Pot_Drank_My_Granny 8 years ago

Cyborg has been full of sh't from the jump. Hopefully more people will see that now that she's finally gotten what she was supposedly fighting for and STILL can't make weight in a reasonable amount of time.

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Sex with animals? There's no time, man!

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[–] AnotherCleverName 8 years ago

She needs to finish a cycle first.

~I know that I know nothing.~

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[–] tcob44 8 years ago

Oh look, a Hate-on-Cyborg-thread, how cool, I've heard it's trendy to hate on her these days... Regardless, I think it's obvious if she needs 12 weeks [Edit] to get to 145, Cyborg-haters should realize she's never going to make 135 (just like Conor could never make 135, and he walks around at the same size Cyborg does). Not to mention, she's still suffering from health issues from making the 140 catchweight she just fought at. I know it's cool to hate on Brazilian fighters and everything, but give her a break already...

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

I'm not hating on her...

It's a fact she said she must have a 12 week camp to make 145. 145...not 135. I think and this isn't hate, that she's even too big for 145 now.

My guess it is a combination of age and the fact that she's wrecked her body through what ever she took earlier in he career.

Again, this isn't hate, but she isn't in a position to make demands as much as many other fighters. She is...well...not popular to the general audience. Sadly, for much of WMMA still revolves around looks, personality before it comes to skills...she really doesn't have either.

She'll get the title and she'll keep it with out issue. Plus, I think this thread was about hate, but wondering why there was a 145 women's title and she isn't included.

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[–] tcob44 8 years ago

It's a fact she said she must have a 12 week camp to make 145. 145...not 135. I think and this isn't hate, that she's even too big for 145 now.

How could she be too big for 145 when that's the weight she fights at, and the weight she currently has the Invicta belt at?

My guess it is a combination of age and the fact that she's wrecked her body through what ever she took earlier in he career.

So you'd rather fabricate an uninformed opinion (aka wild guess) than accept her own statement on the matter? BTW- I like how you worked in that "what ever she took earlier in her career" comment, as if 90% of MMA fighters haven't used PED's...

Again, this isn't hate, but she isn't in a position to make demands as much as many other fighters.

Yeah, one of the top three WMMA fighters (arguably the number one) isn't in a position to make demands. Seriously?

She is...well...not popular to the general audience.

What you mean to say is the UFC didn't want to promote her since she would most likely destroy their Golden Goose (aka Ronda).

She'll get the title and she'll keep it with out issue. Plys, I think this thread was about hate, but wondering why there was a 145 women's title and she isn't included.

It's okay to admit you are a Cyborg-hater, like I said, it's trendy and cool right now...

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

How could she be too big for 145 when that's the weight she fights at, and the weight she currently has the belt at?

People grow over time. This is not a bad thing. She's muscular and as you get older dropping weight quickly and easily gets harder. She said making 140 made her actually cry and hurt in pain. So she struggles to make 145...Conor struggled to make 145 and he had the belt. Not saying she can't do it...i am just saying it is hard.

My guess it is a combination of age and the fact that she's wrecked her body through what ever she took earlier in he career.

Yeah, that"s my opinion...so what?!

Look because people may not be a fan (I am neither a fan nor do I dislike her) doe not mean hate. Look, regardless of what ever with Rousey the fact is Cyborg isn't selling to the "average Joe". Just because she is the best WMMA fighter doesn't give her the numbers. I think that looking at Mighty Mouse we see that. Jesus the guy is great to watch, but people...very often like the HWs and the LHWs and say crap about the smaller guys being midgets etc. I am not saying I agree...I just see why she isn't in the fight. PLUS...she apparently turned down 2 fights at 145...say no too often and you know DW is not going to keep asking...

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[–] tcob44 8 years ago

People grow over time. This is not a bad thing. She's muscular and as you get older dropping weight quickly and easily gets harder. She said making 140 made her actually cry and hurt in pain. So she struggles to make 145...Conor struggled to make 145 and he had the belt. Not saying she can't do it...i am just saying it is hard.

That's wonderful. Obviously you want to ignore Cyborg's own stated reasons for missing the 145-pound division debut and make up your own. But unfortunately, I don't care to "argue" with someone who lives in their own personal fantasy land. Sorry.

Look because people may not be a fan (I am neither a fan nor do I dislike her) doe not mean hate. Look, regardless of what ever with Rousey the fact is Cyborg isn't selling to the "average Joe". Just because she is the best WMMA fighter doesn't give her the numbers. I think that looking at Mighty Mouse we see that. Jesus the guy is great to watch, but people...very often like the HWs and the LHWs and say crap about the smaller guys being midgets etc. I am not saying I agree...I just see why she isn't in the fight. PLUS...she apparently turned down 2 fights at 145...say no too often and you know DW is not going to keep asking...

It isn't like Cyborg can't be promoted. You would just take a different approach, opposite the Ronda/Paige cutesy approach. Just have her stare into the camera like in a staredown while a voice-over talks about her skills, jump-cut to some clips of her training and destroying fighters, and that's a wrap. She doesn't need to be hot or speak English well, despite what the UFC seems to think. And seriously, why would you prefer to believe the UFC's version of events, especially when they've been protecting Ronda from Cyborg for her entire career?

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[–] dlancer 8 years ago

Well, since I was the OP, it's technically my thread, and nowhere did I hate on Cyborg.

Yeah, I thought she could make 135, but I was talking six months to a year to allow her bulked-to-the-gills female muscles atrophy to the size of ordinary female athlete-sized muscles which is indeed doable in less than a year as long as she stays off the juice.

None of that applies to Conor because he's a guy that isn't all that muscular compared to other male fighters. His frame is just too big for 145 unless he goes full-on lanky like Cole Miller does. Cyborg's frame is pretty much identical to Holm's. It's her muscle mass that prevents her from making 135, and women have a much more difficult time keeping that mass compared to men.

But anyway, I digress. This thread wasn't about 135 or Conor. She's struggling to make 145 because of her muscle mass, and that's all there is to it. It's the same issue she's had for eight years, so we're used to it. She'll make the weight when she's ready to make the weight. There's no need for all the drama.

If you can read this then you are trying too hard.

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[–] BettOnThat 8 years ago

Since it was brought up, Cyborg is one of the few draws UFC has at the moment, she's no Conor or Ronda of course, but her numbers have been better than most UFC on Fox/FX/FS1 cards. So yeah, she is a draw to Joe Casual

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[–] tcob44 8 years ago

Since it was brought up, Cyborg is one of the few draws UFC has at the moment, she's no Conor or Ronda of course, but her numbers have been better than most UFC on Fox/FX/FS1 cards. So yeah, she is a draw to Joe Casual

I completely agree. And the other numbskulls agree too, but unfortunately they are Cyborg-haters, hence, the reason why they are making absurd and asinine "arguments" to the contrary...

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

You're right, she sold that fight night...but under the idea that she was 1 fight from 135 and fighting for the championship which would lead to a fight with Rousey.

The issue is that Cyborg is a big fish in a small pond. It doesn't matter the organisation she's already going to be too big for it. This is literally and talent wise.

The UFC moved past promoting "MMA" and moved to promoting itself. They can't spin Cyborg. She has no competition, Rousey won't move up (she's about to retire) and if any other 135 moves up it is a lose/lose for Cyborg. Cyborg doesn't play the verbal game like Conor or others...she doesn't need to. She knows the truth. She's pretty stoic and when it sounds like she's smack talking she's actually just telling the truth.

She'll fight for the 145 pound women's title and if Holly wins the sell will say something like,"She posses all the tools to beat Cyborg." Former champ at 135 and boxing..." "Tons of combat sport experience..." then what?

It isn't Cyborg's fault she is unsellable...it is the fact she will always be a big fish in a small pond. Each fight will be wolf tickets and smoke to say "how this will be her hardest fight ever". It is not hate it is the fact that she doesn't have showmanship and she has no competition.

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[–] BettOnThat 8 years ago

Cyborg brings similar traits that Lesnar brought to the table minus the built in pro wrestling fan-base. Gigantic, by normal standards, with little talent but enough strength to cave somebody's skull in. Cyborg actually has some skill but you still get the feeling she's just going to destroy whomever she fights and that is a draw, much like it was for Ronda.

She wont need to talk up a fight to be a draw as she's not there to be a top five draw, she's there to be the face of her division and she can do that better than Cruz, Johnson, Cormier, Woodley, Joanna or Nunez just by being the dominant force she has been up to this point.

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[–] TitoVicandJoey 8 years ago

Good point. Numbers wise DM cant do it. Vruz has to talk it up and so does Cormier. I get your point.

"Hi, excuse me. Can you use your karate to open up this pickle jar?"

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

Cyborg brings similar traits that Lesnar brought to the table minus the built in pro wrestling fan-base. Gigantic, by normal standards, with little talent but enough strength to cave somebody's skull in. Cyborg actually has some skill but you still get the feeling she's just going to destroy whomever she fights and that is a draw, much like it was for Ronda.

She wont need to talk up a fight to be a draw as she's not there to be a top five draw, she's there to be the face of her division and she can do that better than Cruz, Johnson, Cormier, Woodley, Joanna or Nunez just by being the dominant force she has been up to this point.

What? She has TONS of talent. Lesner could TALK tons of smack. He fought in an established division. She is nothing like Lesner. Lesner was fighting established names? Lesner TALKED mad. I guess you don't remember his whole deal with Mir or his Coors light comments.

Lesner came from a place with a MASSIVE established fan base.

If they wanted her to be the face of her division and thought she could be they would have waited for her and given her the first title fight. They gave the fight to a Holly...a cute, popular wholesome girl next door.

Again...Cyborg is always going to be a big fish in a small pond. She's Jon Jones'talent with GSP personality, but she has no division!! The 145 pound women's champ will lose to her and she'll beat a 135er for her championship and she will be the ONLY true 145 pound women fighter in the UFC.

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[–] BettOnThat 8 years ago

Cyborg isn't that great skill wise, she's talented don't get me wrong, but she's been picked apart outside of MMA in kickboxing and grappling and has always relied on plowing through anything she faces in MMA.

Brock is not a good talker, it's funny in MMA he's Mr. Personality but in pro wrestling he's always been kept away from microphones. Maybe I just have higher standards from years of watching wrestling. Yes Lesnar came in with a massive fanbase, and you're undercutting Cyborg's fanbase as it's actually quite large for the sport that's still viewed as being a niche market, compared to Holly Holm, she's huge, Cyborg is the bigger star! women's featherweight exist because of Cyborg. Dana has no interest in the division if Cyborg doesn't compete in it. 208 is a crap card and the UFC needed something to convince their paying customers to support it just like 206 had an unexpected interim title fight added tact on top a #1 contenders bout.

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

Um, she's got great MMA skills. I don't try to compare an MMA fighter who competes against someone in grappling or a striking sport who concentrates on just that sport.

Plus, she's placed well at the ADCCs.

Again...is she the face of the division? If so the UFC would have made sure she was the first champ. It would have been her fight. No one else. Cyborg was brought in on the idea she'd make 135 and fight for that title. It didn't happen. Now what? She's the best female 145 fighter in an organisation that doesn't have her weight class. The UFC can't let her go...but they let her go to say Bellator. She is not unknown, but she isn't a star...again. If the UFC wanted she'd be fighting for that title...I bet enough green could have shortened that camp...but the UFC didn't want it or her bad enough.

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[–] dlancer 8 years ago

I kinda see where the UFC is going. It does no good to have Cyborg elitexc'ing every fight where the UFC finds some 135er who will take the loss and give Cyborg a fight. If they want to cash in on Cyborg, they need an actual division first.

The problem is UFC kinda missed their chance. When Rousey was tearing up 135, that could've prompted several fighters to go up to 145. There was even talk of a 125 division with people on here saying Miesha should go down, but that all ended when Rousey lost. Now everyone wants a crack at the 135 title against Nunes, including Rousey, and Rousey's tenure looks to be limited win or lose. Even if Rousey stays for awhile, her invincibility aura has been cracked. Who would want to give up their run at 135 gold to fight in the 145 division they don't belong in against a monster who still looks invincible? Not many, I presume. Sure, the UFC could throw an extra check at them to do it, but that's EliteXC again.

If you can read this then you are trying too hard.

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[–] tcob44 8 years ago

Well, since I was the OP, it's technically my thread, and nowhere did I hate on Cyborg.

LMFAO! So now you're going to pretend you aren't a Cyborg-hater just because you didn't hate on her in this thread! Hilarious! Thanks for the laughs!

Yeah, I thought she could make 135, but I was talking six months to a year to allow her bulked-to-the-gills female muscles atrophy to the size of ordinary female athlete-sized muscles which is indeed doable in less than a year as long as she stays off the juice.

None of that applies to Conor because [blah-blah-blah]

STFU, you don't know what you are talking about. Again.

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[–] dlancer 8 years ago

Seriously, you need help.

If you can read this then you are trying too hard.

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[–] My_Pot_Drank_My_Granny 8 years ago

Cyborg flagged for potential USADA violation. Probably just USADA being haters again!!!

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Sex with animals? There's no time, man!

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[–] chuckaroe2 8 years ago

Her reps are already saying that she has a prescription...they say the drug is Spironolactone. It is a steroid and other things. But it is used also for kidney failure etc. which they say happened because she couldn't make 140.

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[–] BettOnThat 8 years ago

Kidney failure is one of the signs of weight cutting. I think it's also a sign of steroid abuse, but I wouldn't know.

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[–] legendkillinpeopleschamp 8 years ago

I really don't think this should headline a ppv, maybe a Fox fight night. The card seems pretty weak too.

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