MovieChat Forums > Paradise Now (2005) Discussion > This movie is dishonest and misleading

This movie is dishonest and misleading


The scene where the suicide bomber gets on the bus filled with Israeli soldiers will probably lead many people to believe that suicide bombers target only soldiers, which they say is OK because they are fighting back against the so-called "occupation"

This is bullsh*t. MOST suicide bombers target malls, pizzerias, supermarkets, any place filled with innocent civilians- including women and children. Their GOAL is to kill as many innocent people as possible. This is the Palestinian death cult that they refuse to end.

And by the way, suicide bombings that kill only Israeli soldiers are also despicable. These soldiers are trying to protect Israel from terrorist murderers and would be nowhere near the Palestinians if the terrorist murderers didn't exist in the first place!

Don't forget that they also protect hundreds of thousands of Israeli Arabs- these are Arabs who didn't leave Israel after the War of Independece to become everlasting Palestinian refugees. They stayed in Israel, became Israeli citizens, and are now some of the best educated, most successful Arabs in the WHOLE MIDDLE EAST! Poll after poll shows that given the chance, they would stay in Israel and not move to any other country in the Middle East.

Palestinians: Stop trying to murder Israelis and the army would be more than happy to leave you alone!

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You wrote:

This is bullsh*t. MOST suicide bombers target malls, pizzerias, supermarkets, any place filled with innocent civilians- including women and children. Their GOAL is to kill as many innocent people as possible. This is the Palestinian death cult that they refuse to end.

The movie wasn't a documentary, it was a story of individuals. Two friends presented with their own situations and striving for their own solutions.

Dispite the indoctination they receive I'm sure that some of these sad young men and woman have second thoughts.

In the movie the character chooses to target soldiers despite his handlers instructions, having decided not to harm a bus full of civilians.

Is he typical?

I can't answer that. But in the context of the movie his actions made sense.

One thing that struck me about the movie was how removed Israel seemed to be. It would have been so easly to paint the IDF as vicious villians, instead the Terrorist cell which drafts the two main characters seems much more sinister.

From the moment the Handler appears one gets the impression that the two friends are sheep being guided to the abattior. When the mission goes avry, the undignified scrabble to cover their tracks spoke volumes.


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You're just sensitive to this stuff. He attacked a bus if you did not notice. The camera showed the faces of all the people through the bus and there HAPPENED to be two soldiers next to him. You're uber sensitive to anything anti Israeli.

Israel: Stop butchering Palestinians and you might get something out of it.

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"Israel: Stop butchering Palestinians and you might get something out of it."

That's hysterically funny. The Palestinians are the ones who commit acts of terror, and you tell ISRAEL to stop "butchering" them. That's funny. If the Palestinians would stop terrorism today, there would be no more conflict. The Palestinians know this but don't give a sh*t about their own people. They know that it is always the terrorists, never Israel, that starts these battles.

In fact, Israel usually underresponds. Thousands of Kassams have been shot from Gaza into Israel SINCE ISRAEL WITHDREW FROM GAZA. I think the IDF should retaliate harshly after every rocket until the terrorists stop or until Gaza is reduced to rubble. But instead, Israel holds back. Stupid of them.

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You're either completely stupid or completely brainwashed. Either way, you believe a load of utter crap and verbal jousting with you would be a total waste of my time.

Just one thing- how was Israel's founding illegitimate and immoral? The UN divided the land between Arabs and Jews- but the Arabs couldn't have this, couldn't share the land with JEWS- and so the entire Arab world tried to push the Jews into the sea, but couldn't do it.

Most of those Palestinians (and there were actually only a fraction of the ridiculous number you pulled out of a hat) left on their own- all the Arab states told them to leave so that they could kill all the Jews there- and then the Arabs would be free to go back. In fact, they threatened to hang as collaborators any Arabs who stayed.

Problem- the Arab nations were defeated, but they never kept their promises to take care of the Arabs (now Palestinians) who left. Don't believe me?

On 6 September 1949, the Beirut Telegraph carried an interview with Mr. Emile Ghoury, Secretary of the Palestine Higher Committee, in which he said: "The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab States in opposing partition and the Jewish State."

"We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down." -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, as quoted by Nimr el Hawari (the former Commander of the Palestine Arab Youth Organization) in his book 'Sir Am Nakbah' ("The Secret Behind the Disaster"), 1952 (Nazareth)

One refugee quoted in the Jordan newspaper, Ad Difaa (September 6, 1954), said:
The Arab government told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.

"This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country." -- Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League Office in London), as quoted in 'The Arabs', p. 183 (London 1955)

Abu Mazen wrote in an article entitled "Madha `Alamna wa-Madha Yajib An Na`mal" [What We Have Learned and What We Should Do], published in "Falastineth-Thawra" [Revolutionary Palestine], the official journal of the PLO, Beirut, March 1976, "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland...The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people."

Khaled al-`Azm, who served as Prime Minister of Syria in 1948 and 1949, wrote in his memoirs (published in Beirut, 1973), that among the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948 was "the call by the Arab Governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and to leave for the bordering Arab countries, after having sown terror among them...Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave...We have brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees, by calling upon them and pleading with them to leave their land, their homes, their work and business..." (Part 1, pp. 386-387).

And even King Hussein of Jordan wrote in his memoirs in 1960:
"Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestine problem in an irresponsible manner.... they have used the Palestine people for selfish political purposes. This is ridiculous and, I could say, even criminal."

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Wow, you sure told me! Just a minute, I'm crying too hard at your insults to type. Sheesh.

I see you ignored everything I wrote. The Arab nations, the Palestinian Commission at the time, the various Arab higher-ups - they all agree that THEY are to blame for telling the Palestinians to leave the land so that they could kill all the Jews- and then when they were done killing Jews, the Palestinians could come back. They all agree that they did this, causing the Palestinians to be refugees because in the end they did NOT complete their plan and kill all the Jews in the land. And after that, they turned their back on the Palestinians instead of doing the right thing and VERY EASILY settling them into the various Arab countries.

You simply ignored this admission of guilt because it didn't fit into what you want to believe. You are so desperate to continue with the Palestinians: GOOD and Jews: BAD that you won't look at some actual FACTS and say "Hmmm, maybe I'm wrong."

Benny Morris has long realized that he made a mistake and is now singing a totally different tune. He made a small but critical error in reporting what David Ben Gurion said- Ben Gurion actually said that the Jews DID NOT need to expel the Palestinians from the land. Morris mistakenly thought he said that the Jews DID need to expel them. He made a mistake, admits it freely, and today sees the error of his ways.

Speaking of Deir Yassin, I just read a 1980 interview with the commander of that operation. The Arab and Jew-hating world has been perpetrating a lie regarding what happenened there for so many years. There was no massacre- the Jews went in, fought rough door-to-door combat until they were able to raise the flag in the middle of the village. They took the remaining villagers and trucked them to another Arab city and dropped them off. That was it. I'm sure you won't believe this, why am I even bothering with the truth- maybe someone out there who isn't prejudiced will be interested in knowing the truth.

I hate to break it to you, but the Jewish people aren't the type to go in for massacres. The Palestinian terrorists you seem to side with do it so much better. I'm not saying that the Israelis didn't force out some of the Palestinians. After all, they attacked the Israelis and were an enemy population who were willing to kill any Jew they could find. Did you know that during the War of Independence, the Arabs would often raise the white flag of surrender- the Israelis would approach, and the Arabs would drop the flag and start shooting them? Did you know that just before the Deir Yassin NON-MASSACRE, those lovely Palestinians massacred over 50 Israeli doctors and nurses?

So yes, some Palestinians were forced out. There was a war on, after all- started, remember, by the Arabs, not the Jews. But the number is such a small percentage of the Pals who left of their own accord. Read this, if you aren't afraid of some actual facts by a non-interested party:

Harry C. Stebbens, who was in an official position in the British Mandatory Government in Palestine in 1947-48, wrote in the London Evening Standard (Friday, 10 January, 1969):

"Long before the end of the British mandate, between January and April, 1948, practically all my Arab Palestinian staff of some 200 men and women and all of the 1800 labor force had left Haifa in spite of every possible effort to assure them of their safety if they stayed.

"They all left for one or more of the following reasons:

1. The Arab terrorism engendered by the November, 1947, U.N. partition resolution frightened them to death of their imaginative souls and they feared Jewish retaliation.

2. Propagandists promised a blood bath as soon as the mandate ended in which the street of all the cities would run with blood.

3. The promised invasion by the foreign Arab armies (which started on May 14, 1948, with the Arab Legion massacre of some 200 Jewish settlers at Kfar Etzion) was preceded by extensive broadcasts from Cairo, Damascus, Amman, and Beirut to the effect that any Arabs who stayed would be hanged as collaborators with the Jews.

"The Palestinian Arabs were the victims then, as in 1967, of their own propaganda, and having on the average no stomach for violence they ran. I have met many of my Palestinian Arab friends since in Beirut, Damascus, Amman, and in the Persian Gulf states, and they have all without exception gladly told me that they had wished they had listened to me and stayed - as did some 200,000 who became and still are the most economically advanced Arabs in the Middle East.

-DID YOU READ THAT LAST LINE? THEY WISH THEY HAD STAYED. They would have become Israeli Arabs, with Israeli citizenship, living in some of the best conditions in the entire Middle East (Not including oil sheiks- I'm talking about regular people).

Have you ever met an Israeli Arab? I have- quite a few. Many from Haifa, actually. They are doctors, lawyers, professors- and not one of them would move to any Arab country. Not one.

By the way, the city that man was talking about, Haifa- had many Jews and Arabs before the war. It still does, in fact. The Jews begged the Arabs to stay- passed out leaflets, begged on Arabic radio- but the Arabs left anyway, for the reasons mentioned above. The ones who stayed are lucky. They avoided becoming lifelong refugees.

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A cycle of violence is only a cycle if it goes both ways. Both sides have proven to be murderers here. Sue, you're a hypocrite if you condemn Palestinian terorrism yet fail to even recognize Israel's gross violation of Palestinian's rights.

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<i>A cycle of violence is only a cycle if it goes both ways. Both sides have proven to be murderers here. Sue, you're a hypocrite if you condemn Palestinian terorrism yet fail to even recognize Israel's gross violation of Palestinian's rights.</i>

Certainly it does, but as the example of South Africa proves both parties have to want to come to the table.

Historicaly Israel has come to the party a number of times with concrete offers and concrete concessions.

Each and every time those concessions have either rebuffed or abused.

As a result and because Israel is a democracy moderates have been replaced by Hardliners.

There needs to be a fundemental mindshift in Palestinian Leadership. The Israelis are there, they're dug in, and they're not moving. For 60 years the Arab world has failed to move them either through conventional warfare or through terrorism.

If the average Palistinian wants what they claim, safety, security, health and economic opportunity then they must consider that Israel can deliver that to them as they have with their own citizens.

A 2 state solution is worthless, that's real apartheid.

What Palestinians need is full Israeli citizenship, an the opportunity to share in a growing economic pie, and to participate in a proven political model.

At the same time rich Arab nations should contribute toward former palestinian economic development. That coupled with US and UN aid as a sort of Marshall plan could rapidly redress poverty and resource issues.

Palestinans could address issues of Land restitution as Israeli citizens, protected by Israeli law. (There again International aid could rapidly aid compense for legitimate claims).

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Well then frankly it's time erase the palestian settlements once and for all. Drive them into the desert and let their Arab brothers take care of them.

That works for me too.

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You are one messsed up individual.

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How is she messed up? I can't find one incorrect statement in anything she said.

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She's talking about vanquishing a whole people, for a mess her own government has started. I know you're just as much of a Zionist as she, I don't need to hear what you have to say.

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Actually if palistinians had simply become part of Israel in the beginning instead of fleeing at the instructions of the invading armies this situation would be completely different.

If Arafat had negotiated in good faith twenty years ago things would have been different.

If the Richard Nixon hadn't persuaded the Israelis not to to use nukes in the the six day war the whole middle east might look very different.

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"Vanquishing a whole people"????? Please show me where she said that. I looked at her post again and it did mention getting rid of Palestinian TERRORISTS. And that if after the TERRORISTS were gone the rest of the Palestinians wanted to leave, that was fine. She never suggested vanquishing a whole people.

Movie 261 makes some excellent points- if the Pals had just accepted the UN Partition Plan, they would have had their own, big state for almost 60 years now. What they are supposedly fighting for now is much much less than they would have gotten way back then.

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Israel needs to go back to pre-1967 borders, dismantle ALL settlements, and accept an independent Palestinian State with East Jerusalem as its capital. Anything less than this is completely unacceptable.

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You know if the palistinians actually negotiated in good faith a solution might arise.

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What about the 100,000,000 Christian innocents who were exterminated by Anti-Christian Jewish Red Commissars in Russia under the orders of Trotsky?

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The Palestinians are the ones who commit acts of terror, and you tell ISRAEL to stop "butchering" them.


You need to take a look at the palestinian/israli body count ratio, Sue. That speaks for itself.

Not that I think the palestinians are totally innocent in what's happening down there....

If the Palestinians would stop terrorism today, there would be no more conflict

If Dalai Lama and his clique would stop yapping, there would be no more conflict.

If Viet Minh had stopped their terrorism, then "Indochina" would still have been french.

etc etc etc...

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and you murder our children with cold blood

suicide attacks are only reactions to what the zionists did and are still doing since they occupied Palestine

we Lebanese taught you the lesson . other arabs also will .

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Bolivia would prosper if they were given the 3 billion per year that we give Israel.

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Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia all have higher GDP rankings than Israel. Their economies thrive on oil whereas Israel's thrives on an expanding occupation. It's surprising how much good a 6,000 mile leash can do--military support, an abundance of aid, and the opportunity to expand and build indefinitely.

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I don't recall refuting your per capita fact. I simply added another. So I'll turn around the "learn to read" remark, tap it on the behind, and send it right back your way. Conflict always comes down to the simple notion of sides. You have yours, and I have mine. Just because I refuse to roll over to the command of the AIPAC doesn't make me nuts. To me, Alan Dershowitz and like-minded folks are nuts.

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Now I'm giggling. You make it sound like per capita is the only GDP statistic there is. I responded with another. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem too difficult to comprehend? But then again, me and 115 of the world's countries are the one's who are wrong. Mmmkay.

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Waa waa waa. Brainwashed kids...

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My air is clean and my hands are clean. I bet you wish you could say the same, huh?

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What's your infatuation with air? That and baseless facts seem to be your only defense.

"Denver has no air and I'm better than everyone else!"

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It surprises me that no one has brought up you mention of hundreds of thousands of "Christian innocents" murdered by "Jewish-controlled communists." Sounds like the old blood libel to me. Are you outright Christian Identity, or do you hide behind a phony pro-Arab facade like so many other crypto-Nazis?

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I'm glad the Christians you know in Israel are allowed to pray in peace, but the fact is that the Christian poplulation of Israel is steadily decreasing as more and more Christians emigrate due to persection from Arab Muslims. Not Jews, but Muslims. It's especially bad in the Gaza Strip, where lately Hamas has taken to burning Christian bookshops and meeting places.

I won't even bother arguing your theories of how evil Israel is. Would be a waste of time. You're not interested in the truth, you'd rather just continue your Jew-hatred. Does it feel good to have so much in common with Palestinian terrorists?

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Well said seattle sue!


"A real man would rather bow down to a strong woman than dominate a weak one"

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Well, as far as I remember, Christians were allowed to pray, go to church and hang their crosses in muslim countries like say Egypt.

The movie doesn't support suicide bombings in fact the leaders of the suicide bombers in the movies are portrayed as antagonists. This movie supports neither side, it's against the occupation but it is also against suicide bombers.

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Thanks for that, but I was actually asking the question to Adam Denver Co.

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It wasn't worth my time responding to. How baseless of a canard to refer to me as a "crypto-nazi" for simply pointing out that Stalin was just as ruthless as Hitler. Conflicting views on religion and government doesn't grant you the right to verbally assault someone.

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But you weren't talking about Stalin. You were talking about "Jewish Bolsheviks." When those two words are usually put together, it implies anti-semitic undertones. So what's this really all about: anti-communism, or something else?

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Are you refuting the fact that most of the top Bolshevik officials in communist Russia from 1917-onward were Jewish by race/ethnicity? It's merely a fact and not an excuse for you to profile me as anti-semitic. I'm guessing the sarcastic portion of my original post is whats nagging you. By pointing out the hundreds of millions of Christians destroyed by Jewish Bolsheviks, I was demonstrating Aliza's ability to twist fact and fiction to achieve a severely biased ideology. "This" isn't about anti-communism--I have great respect for it and it's prerogative in political history.

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The past doesnt matter anymore really. It's not that we can ask all Jews to leave Israel now. Neither can we ask the Arabs to leave. The propaganda both sides spread and recieve are both frightening. The army of Israel are as much terrorists as any of the militant Palestinian factions, they gladly bomb 50 civilians if they can kill one Hamas soldier in there. Both sides need to stop throwing blame at eachother and start educating people about the conflict instead of spreading propaganda of their own perspective. Bomb the enemy and you get a missile or a tank blowing up your neighbors house. Or worse. A circle of violence cannot be stopped with more violence.

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Very well stated.

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Are you refuting the fact that most of the top Bolshevik officials in communist Russia from 1917-onward were Jewish by race/ethnicity?

Yes. I'm calling you on this one. Where are you getting your facts from?

Trotsky was Jewish by descent (atheist by belief), none of the other main Bolshevik leaders was. Sounds like old-fashioned pogromist anti-semitism talking, to me.



I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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Google.com.

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Out of Lenin's fifteen Peoples' Commissars in 1919, six were Jewish (Trotsky, Uritsky, Isaac Steinberg, I. A. Teodorovich, Semyon Dimanstein and Sokolnikov).

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Definitely not "most", in other words. And of the top 5 - Lenin, Stalin, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trotsky, only Trotsky was of Jewish descent. And he never expressed any interest in his Jewish heritage.

So it still looks to me like the usual pathetic update of the "blood libel".



I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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Fwiw, Kamenev's father was Jewish and Zinoviev was born to Jewish parents.

Mea culpa. But the main reason I didn't know that is that it wasn't important - those guys identified as communists, not as Jews. And of course both of them, plus Trotsky, were murdered by the distinctly gentile Stalin, under whose rule the majority of the USSR's purges and massacres took place.



I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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To respond to the original post, all you saw was a bunch of people on a bus and a few soldiers in the last scene.

Also, there was a scene when they first crossed over and Said could have jumped into the bus with the baby but he held back.

I think it's a well made movie and gives you a very realistic view of the frustration felt by the palestinians. Plus, I thought the girl was really cute and she had the right idea, violence is hardly a solution :)

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i dont have time to make you realize that your argument is one sided. I will comment on ly on your last sentence.."Palestinians: Stop trying to murder Israelis and the army would be more than happy to leave you alone!"

Palestinians have never been left alone.. you have it backwards lady. I lived there for many years, ( AS A NON PALESTINIAN).. I worked and taught there. I saw the most PEACEFUL, Palestinian citizens be imprisoned, murdered, beat, tortured, and humiliated, on a daily basis, just going and coming to work, or school.. Never did they initiate anything. You just spew lies. Leave the West Bank, your racist settlements, your elitist attitude back where you came from.
Oh and I was discriminated against, as a Christian, having soldiers tear my Cross off my necklace and harass me.. You are living in a delusion.

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As an Indian - non Jew - non Muslim - non Christian - i feel the movie is not completely misleading. It can be an eye opener to both sides to reconcile.

As far as i know - The Israelis just HAVE to continue the occupation forever, because if they give back the land, it will be used by Arabs to lauch missiles within 10 minutes flying time from Tel Aviv. As Khaled argues with Suha - ' would Israel sit in peace if we were not suicide bombers? ' the same argument can be used by Israel 'Would Arabs sit in peace if we gave the land back?' The world has to remember - the main fault Israel has is that IT IS IN THE WAY. It is only absorbing the blows meant for Europe and USA.

However - Isreal has a big fault and a big lie - the settlers and the brutality of the occupation. Sure - Israel should police the land - but settlements should be stopped - even removed. Because that land belongs to the Palestinians. And the world must interfere to see that the land which Israel polices for its own security is treated with dignity - and that Palestinians are given the right to live with the neccesities , comforts and even luxeries that we take for granted.

Such good movies should not be wasted on a 2 character storyline. They must also pass on a message and crate public opinion. This movie should have made mention of the Arabs and Persians. They are the primary culprits who are making pawns of the Palestinians for personal gain and vendetta.

On the lighter side - suha was real hot - not for her face and figure - but for the way she sits and talks. The scene where she welcomes Said to her house - and shes so bloody cute - it got me thinking about - why couldnt my wife be like this ?

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