MovieChat Forums > Paradise Now (2005) Discussion > Jewish/Israeli POVs?

Jewish/Israeli POVs?

posted 17 years ago by drmalama
15 replies | jump to latest

Just to start out, I am a Jewish-American, and I've been to Israel, where I met and still keep in touch with some people my age who are Israeli soldiers. My views on the conflict are still in flux, even though it was nearly impossible not to feel a bond with Israelis when I was there. Two years later, this movie was shown in one of my classes. I'm wondering what Jewish people and/or Israelis think about this movie. Do you all denounce it as Anti-Semitism or glorifying suicide bombers? Or is there more variation in opinion?

Here's my reaction:
It was unsettling. The idea that Palestinians have to live in such squalor was so disturbing to me that it is tempting to write it off as anti-Israeli propaganda, but when reports from the BBC, Reuters and now even the New York Times corroborate this outlook, I think immediately writing off reports of Palestinian suffering as propaganda is bordering on the paranoid.

Furthermore, I don't think this movie is glorifying suicide bombers; it paints the picture as an all-round tragedy for both sides. If anything, the movie takes the side of the Moroccan girl, Suha, saying that Palestinian citizens and politicians should use non-violent campaigning methods to get their message across.

That being said, it was chilling to see Said preparing to carry out the bombing in Tel Aviv. I had walked those streets, I had swam at that beach, and I had went into those shops. It very well could have been me, and those soldiers on the bus very well could have been the ones I had met. I cannot help but grieve when Israelis are killed by terrorists, and when those killers escape with impunity. But I also think that grieving for a loss of life and miscarriages of justice should not be limited to one's own people.

I am eager to hear what you think.

[–] Screen-7 17 years ago

I'm not Jewish, so please excuse my jumping in here.

I thought one of the more memorable aspects of the movie was when one of the future bombers (I forget his name) made it over the fence and got on the bus.

As I saw the scene, the protagonist first saw the people as "just Jews" but quickly they began to humanize before his eyes.

This -- again as I saw it -- was a statement that the wall in as much as it separated the two peoples, it also dehumanizes them.

And that's why I jumped in.

Do many Israelis worry that the wall will backfire because it will duhmanize the Jews to the Palestinians? Obviously, it's emotional easier to bomb "non humans."

[–] torential 17 years ago

I suppose I could be classified as a Gentile, too. I'm writing to say that I agree with Screen7's assessment of the movie--that the wall dehumanizes both Israelis and Palestinians. Before watching, I had concerns about anti-Israel propaganda, but the director dispelled those notions in the first scene. I got a bad feeling when the lone Palestinian woman walked up to the ominous looking border guard that she was going to encounter trouble. When she didn't, I thought that the director was going to make a movie that would not demonize Israel. In fact, in one respect it may have been worse. Israel was represented by its soldiers, this monolithic police presence. Except when Said observes the family waiting for the bus, the Israelis were utilized more as background scenery rather than individual characters. I suspect that is how the Palestinian characters in the film viewed Israelis, as they hardly ever interacted with them on a regular basis (I don't know if this is accurate, but it's my inference). The Israeli family reminded Said of their universal humanity, and their interactions compelled Said to abort his mission at the bus stop.

IMO, it's a powerful film, pro-Palestine but not necessarily anti-Israel.

[–] adina_darko 17 years ago

I'm a Jewish American too, and have also been to Israel. I love Israel and am planning to move there after I graduate if I can. That being said, I am not a Zionist, I try to look at the conflict from both the Jewish/Israeli side and the Palestinian side. I do not think this movie was glorifying suicide bombing in anyway, I think the stance the director took on the issue was the opposite. don't agree with how Palestinians are treated here, they are obviously treated as if they are second class citizens. If you watch the news then you know that many Palestinians are placed into refugee camps and basically live like those under apartheid in South Africa. If you can please watch the movie Promises, it is a documentary about young children, both Israeli and Palestinians, that end up meeting each other in the end, after being segregated for so long.

At least you'll never be a vegetable - even artichokes have hearts!

[–] Screen-7 17 years ago

I admire your fairness. I sometimes like I'm the only guy left in the world who has not taken up sides in this conflict. I see victims on both sides and victimizers, too.

I think one of the movies about the Palestians that affected me the most is "Waiting"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472710/

I saw it at the Dubai Film festival and it doesn't seem like it got any distribution. Too bad. I thought it did a fantastic job of showing what it is like to be "stuck" for generations in those camps.

It didn't have the suicide bombers or violence so typical of movies about that conflict. It even was funny at points!

[–] malcolmbforme 17 years ago

I am jewish, and I too have been to Israel. I loved it there and am thinking about moving there after college. I felt pretty strongly that this was pro-palestinian. It was definately not pro-suicide bombing, but definately pro-palestine. It seemed like the film was giving all responsibilty to Israel for poor Palestinan conditions. I will adimit that Israel does take a lot of fault for this, but Hamas does nothing for Palestine except reak havoc on Israel, only furthering the weak living conditions in Palestine. The director, in my mind, brought up the theme, "desperate times call for desperate measures." And though he may not have been glorifying suicide bombing, he made it clear that because of the Israelies, Palestinians must resort to horrendous measures. This film was definately one-sided in my mind. If you notice, at the beginning of the film when the girl is having her bag checked, the colors of the clothing in her bag are the colors of the Palestinian flag.

Overall, this film negatively portrays Israel as the cause for ridiculous actions such as suicide bombing. This film was not fair at all. That said, it definately provides a very very interesting look at what it is like to live in such pain and hardship. I was especially haunted during the scenes where they get ready to become suicide bombers.

Did anyone else find this film to be Pro-Palestine and Anti-Israel?

[–] MinoloBlanc 17 years ago

I know you asked for a Jewish perspective, but being that I am Palestinian I feel as though i'm obliged to reply to this thread. What most people(especially Americans) don't understand is the terrible conditions the Palestinian people live under in the occupied areas; & I'm saying American only because the American government funds Israel 11 billion dollars a year, and is their strongest ally, which will obviously distort the Palestinian voice in the mass media. I chose sides, & not because who my family is or where i'm from, but because of the research i've done, and things i've seen. The Palestinian people are living as second class citizens in their own homes; A Jewish man from Poland whose never seen Palestine in his life has a right to move there with no problems, while my father may never see his land again because he became a refugee in 1948. & as for the issue of suicide bombing, I am completely against violence unless it's in the terms of self-defense; now an extremist who bombs a pizza parlor filled with kids obviously doesn't represent the struggle, because of his misinterpretation of Islam and rebellion. Many of the men who commit these acts aren't considered true Muslim, by a majority of the Islamic population because their disregarding a human life, and just like in the Bible and the Torah "thou shalt not kill". You must understand these people don't wake up one morning and decide "hey todays a good day to blow myself up". It is a continuous cycle of oppression that they receive to the point where they feel it's for the better of their people to fight back any way possible. Israel has the second strongest army in the world, Palestine doesn't have one at all. & what's the difference between and Israeli soldier shooting a child (which has been done on numerous occasions) than when a Palestinian commits an act of suicide bombing and attempts to fight against his oppressors. The whole struggle has been skewed and distorted to make the Palestinians look like terrorists, when in reality they are just fighting against colonialism. Israeli's claims to the land aren't even solid, what country in the world should be able to have a nation based on religion, in my opinion that is somewhat racist; and even their religious claims are faulty, they weren't suppose to obtain Israel until their Messiah returned, where is he? Many Orthodox Jews are at a lot of protests I attend shouting free Palestine and waving a Palestinian flag, because they know the Apartheid in Palestine is unjust and cruel. There's my 2 cents.

One of the most eye opening movies i've seen about the conflict is Occupation 101, which is definitely pro-Palestinian.

[–] freetheketchup 17 years ago

Interesting topic. And civil.

I will definitely have to check out Occupation 101.

[–] banjopants 13 years ago

Definitely. I am opposed to the suppression of any race, religion or cree
d.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] closeupman 11 years ago

lol, what about the American media? They don't distort facts? Or the Israeli media? Only the Palestinian media distorts facts huh?

How do you explain this video by a JEW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMnVBaSCs-Q

Watch that, then tell me who you think are the terrorists?

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] PeterMarkoff 11 years ago

There are over 400 million Muslims living in the Middle East. None of them are living in democracies. Each and every one of Israel's neighbors is ruled by juntas or by royal dynasties, who have no qualms about butchering their own citizens.

Isn't Lebanon neighbor of Izrael? Now I am not really that familiar with Middle East but reading about their government and demographics/religion it doesn't seem exactly fitting image you are painting. Saw plenty of photos from lebanese parties and somehow I can't see any difference compared to Izrael, it doesn't seem very Muslim country to me. It's only other interesting country next to Izrael I see myself visiting in Middle East (is Iran still ME?).

Peter Markoff
The best - Fight Club, American Beauty & Falling Down.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] PeterMarkoff 11 years ago

Yeah, but in previous comment you said "none" of them is living in democratic country, you said "each and every neighbor of Izrael", now you say there are exceptions which is different. I am saying you should not generalize especially if we know about exceptions, I agree with you about majority of countries you mentioned. Although I ain't so familiar with Jordan as well but I was under impression that people living there have good life and it's safe country, not democracy but who cares, what's important is how is the life of ordinary people and their rights. As for Iran I'd be really curious what would become out of it if they had fair/unmanipulated elections so progress could start and it could become Turkey nr.2 (hopefully with even better outcome), since it doesn't really seem to be radically religious country except some older and uneducated people. Actually by my experience with Indonesia the biggest Muslim country in world I didn't noticed this and would never realize that this is supposed to be biggest Muslim country in world when you can see women everywhere not covered at all, people drinking alcohol and in general having fun not taking religion so serious at all, which will be again probably case of uneducated/villagers.

I thought all Izraelis can have second passport few generations back so nothing stopping you really to travel into any Muslim country except your own prejudice, I'd say Malaysia is perfectly safe, Indonesia and Turkey as well (although the last one should be strictly secular so I think Izraelis can travel there even with Izraeli passport, can't they?).

As for Lebanon being riviera, I don't see why it would be different now from photos I saw from nowadays I can still see women wearing almost nothing and young people having fun and if I saw photos of Tel Aviv and Lebanon I'd probably have hard time distinguish which is what (ignoring letters).

Peter Markoff
The best - Fight Club, American Beauty & Falling Down.

[–] LindysRuffians 8 years ago

If you are truly looking for another perspective on it, here's my take. I don't dismiss the film as pure propaganda but it definitely presents a very simplistic and one-sided picture for the viewer. In Paradise Now, the idea that all Palestinians are suffering terribly and the fault lies completely with Israel is not examined or challenged. When the truth is, there are Palestinians living in squalor, and there are also very wealthy Palestinians. On the Israeli side there are many Jews living in poverty too.

It also doesn't mention how aside for the hardships they endure from Israel, Palestinians have been suffering at the hands of their own government. The choices of the Palestinian leadership and the neighboring Arab states have been just as responsible for their current situation as Israel has.

In the movie, "collaborators" are discussed as people worthy of execution, and that Israel tricks Palestinians into collaborating in order to demean an entire people. When in truth, Palestinians who warn Israelis of impending attacks on civilians are heroes who are working for a peaceful future.

The movie depicted the Palestinians' targets as soldiers and only soldiers, with a few unavoidable civilian bystanders on the bus. That is a deliberate skewing of the facts: Palestinian bombers have targeted civilian populations extensively - malls, cafes, markets, bus stops, discos, etc. They have pursued a deliberate strategy of murdering innocent men women and children.

Overall, I'm glad to have seen this film as it gives me insight into a side of the conflict that I'm not usually exposed to, but that window into their perspective has thoroughly depressed me.