MovieChat Forums > Zodiac (2007) Discussion > Arthur Leigh Allen did it.

Arthur Leigh Allen did it.

posted 9 years ago by DoctorinPA73
28 replies | jump to latest

From the silence of the lambs:
From Silence of the Lambs

Hannibal Lecter: First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?

Clarice Starling: He kills women...

Hannibal Lecter: No. That is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does? What needs does he serve by killing?

Clarice Starling: Anger, um, social acceptance, and, huh, sexual frustrations, sir...

Hannibal Lecter: No! He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer now.

Clarice Starling: No. We just...

Hannibal Lecter: No. We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?

I know its a movie but it makes alot of sense.

Arthur Leigh Allen lived right near Darlenes job. He probably saw her all the time and became obsessed with her. She was his first. Its simple. Arthur Leigh Allen did it. The other evidence - or lack of - doesnt matter . The rest of the evidence against him DOES.He was smart enough to keep not leave clue behind. He cleaned out his place of evidence. Allen might ahve been a sick pedophile- but he wasnt STUPID. Its over. Zodiac is dead and rotting in hell.

Ive seen alot of people who want to believe believe he got away with it( unsub this- unsub that)- but he didnt. he died long ago and was about to be indicted by Mageaus ID.

Merry Xmas to all ( and to hell with everyone else who doesn't believe)

[–] jamesstyslinger 9 years ago

You saw the movie too! Good for you and your inability to really research the case!

BTW, you lost all credibility when you said Darlene Ferrin was the Zodiacs first victim.

But regardless of that, I still want you to explain to me a few things...

Why didn't Allen's handwriting from BOTH hands never matched Z's handwriting?

Why didn't Allen's DNA match the Zodiacs DNA that was obtained from one of his letters?

Why didn't Allen's palm print match the Zodiacs palm print obtained from one of his letters?

Why wasn't Allen's fingerprints match the Zodiacs?

Why doesn't Allen look like the Zodiac composite drawing? Disguise on or not, Allen still had a round, chubby face where as the Zodiac composite showed a man with an arian looking face.

How could Allen have passed two polygraph tests?

Why would Officer Don Cheney (the officer who saw the Zodiac the night of Paul Stine's murder) say that Allen was not the Zodiac? He also said Allen outweighed the Zodiac by at least a 100 lbs. Why would he say that if Allen WAS the Zodiac killer? Was it a cover up or an elaborate conspiracy?

The point is -- you formed your conclusion on what you saw in a Hollywood movie and nothing else...and that's as simple as you can go.

[–] jamesstyslinger 9 years ago

I wish I could go back and edit a few grammar mistakes but I can't figure out how to do it on my phone. Sorry guys.

[–] BlimeyCharlie 9 years ago

I don't think you should waste your time, James - I'm tempted to think the OP was just trying to make a fool of himself.

[–] jamesstyslinger 9 years ago

You're right but I'm embarrassed by the mistakes I made in my initial response. For one thing I meant to say Officer Don Foukes, not Cheney lol

[–] BlimeyCharlie 9 years ago

Damn, I didn't even notice that the first time! XD

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

OMG, what atrocious grammar mistakes you made in your post. How dare you? I simply cannot believe in this day and age that someone would make such noticeable mistakes on a public board. You should be sorry, Buddy!!!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. When I saw how much it bugged you that a couple of things were awry, I just had to do it. LOL.

Doing nothing is hard. You never know when you're done.

[–] DoctorinPA73 9 years ago

According to police statements, within days of receiving the watch, Allen is alleged to have made these claims to his friend, Don Cheney:
(Allen used the premise of writing a novel to communicate this fantasy. Cheney estimates the conversation took place on Jan. 1, 1969.)

He would like to kill couples at random.
He would taunt the police with letters detailing his crimes.
He would sign the letters with the cross-circle symbol from his watch.
He would call himself "Zodiac."
He would wear make-up to change his appearance.
He would attach a flashlight to the barrel of his gun in order to shoot at night.
He would fool women into stopping their cars in rural areas by claiming they had problems with their tires, then loosen their lug nuts and eventually take them captive.

Plus one of his victims Id'ed him.

Its over. I know many people on here need Zodiac to be unidentified in order to have meaning their pathetic lives( especially with all the grammar nazis., but its OVER. Being a "rebel researcher" doesn't change the facts in this case.

If it was anyone else, you would be roasting Allen in effigy all this time. But you rebels need Zodiac unfound to make your lives meaningful. Its sad.

Its Arthur Leigh Allen. Deal with it.

Merry Xmas to all ( and to hell with everyone else who doesn't believe)

[–] Gabe1972 9 years ago

Wow. And to think that the police have been so stupid for all of these years. If they just had you working for them they would have the case closed.

I guess the term hearsay is nothing you've heard before. You might want to look up the definition.

What a joker.

What's next for you, a career as an FBI profiler? NOT.

Why aren't cookies called bakies?

[–] taran-rod 8 years ago

What a pretencious prick you are... Change your abysmal attitude.

[–] kmags84 8 years ago

Almost every ounce of Info points to him... But it doesn't matter and that's the point. It's like 'Chinatown' in that sense. People speak of the "Round Face", so many factors can come into play there. Smiling, weight loss, weight gain, shadows etc. I do think there were Copy Cats in the Zodiac case, which obviously results in another string of factors. Beauracy plays it's part, obsession plays it's part. PARANOIA plays it's part... So while I'm with your line of thinking, especially in regards to Websites that thrive off of Conspiracy Bull *beep* I also think that while there's a pile of CIRCUMSTANTIAL Evidence, the fact remains, it ends at that.

[–] Citation_Needed 8 years ago

Why didn't Allen's handwriting from BOTH hands never matched Z's handwriting?

Did they ever test his opposite hand?

Why didn't Allen's DNA match the Zodiacs DNA that was obtained from one of his letters?

Can you prove that particular letter was from the Zodiac and not some kook or someone trying to pin it on someone else, or even just someone trying to finger Allen?

Why wasn't Allen's fingerprints match the Zodiacs?

A lone unidentified fingerprint at a crime scene don't not automatically mean it belongs to the killer.

Why doesn't Allen look like the Zodiac composite drawing?

Shytty composite artist. Look at the unibombers drawing. Photo identifications are much more reliable than using drawings to make an ID.

How could Allen have passed two polygraph tests?

He learned how to do it by reading those books stolen from the library.

[–] The-Demon 8 years ago

Are u being sarcastic or are you serious with these answers?

While I liked this movie it's clearly not accurate. The only accurate thing was that Graysmith was so obsessed with it being someone that he'd make up anything to prove its him.

It seems like Fincher noticed that too so he made a movie with the point of view of Graysmith that the poor readers of his first book assumed its true.

Check out zodiackillerfacts.com there is an article called Fact vs Fincher about this movie.

The real Graysmith is an idiot in real life. Even watching his interviews you can tell he's a moron. One documentary he tries to quote a Zodiac cipher and says something like "and off the top of my head 'I like killing.... Killing is so much fun.... Cause man is the most dangerous game'". Like seriously, you've been obsessed with the Zodiac case since 1969 and wrote 2 books about it so off the top of your head you can't even quote the real cipher for an A&E Cold Case Files episode?

I get that in movies you need to have creative license to tell a story in a different way for a movie. I've seen movies or tv episodes where they had to eliminate certain characters to let the screenplay flow. Sometimes even what one character said in the book is said by a different character in a movie for dramatic purpose.

So while some Zodiac experts don't like that Graysmith and Avery are friends in the movie when in reality they never once spoke at The Chronicle, I'm fine with that. It to,d a better story that didn't alter the real Zodiac investigation.

But claiming Allen wore wing walker boots at his first interview was trying to force the audience to accept Allen is the man. In real life Chenney did complain that Allen tried to touch one of his daughters and Allen's brother and sister in law while they cooperated never thought he could be Zodiac.

[–] DaveBowman2001 (517) 7 years ago

I just saw Zodiac last night. Never really interested me, nor do most serial killer movies (ironically, I randomly watched "From Hell" again the previous night, which I saw upon release).

I have never researched Zodiac in real life, but it occurred to me while watching this that Jake Gyllenhal also played a somewhat similar character in Nightcrawler who manipulates crimes for his own gain and sells stories/film footage to the press. Just sayin. Is it possible that He, Allen or a third party with inside information to the murders was writing the letters/code to make a false connection and gain notoriety, instill fear, profit.etc..etc. Allen even mentions "the business" end of the whole thing. The murders were all done in different style, different weapons, handwriting didn't match, etc, plus the killings were sporatic, promises not kept. Just putting that out there from an outside perspective. I liked the nod to Dirty Harry in the movie. In the age of fake news, makes you wonder. Lots of photos of Nixon on the walls, which was the end of the Hippie era and happened in SF no less. Nixon administration was full of lies and deception (Vietnam, moon landings, drug war/ban, riots, protests, cointel pro, watergate, etc etc).

Possible Psychological operation too if you want to stretch it further...even if the murders were real, the "serial killer" aspect could have been fabricated. Again, I might be spewing BS, because I never looked into it.

Look into Laurel Canyon, Lookout Mountain and you start seeing connections of military intelligence infiltration, psyops, assasinations, etc.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] satch_vincent 9 years ago

A favorite adage, 'When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras'. The answer is almost always the most obvious thing.

I guess you can't know anything for sure, but its damn hard to think anything else but Arthur Leigh Allen did it. When I saw this movie and looked up some of the facts, I realized it wasn't the big mystery it has sometimes been made out to be.

It's really just that from a legal point of view, no one can be definitively linked. OJ never killed Nicole so I guess that's a big mystery too, eh ;)

[–] InjunNose 9 years ago

Except that there's not a shred of evidence connecting Allen to any of the murders.

[–] satch_vincent 9 years ago

I must have been really bored I don't know why I commented here, I actually haven't seen the movie in a LONG time, or looked into the subject much since then.

I just remember it seemed obvious to me, but there's no physical evidence. Which happens.

[–] ElphieDefyingGravity 8 years ago

The evidence in the case is all circumstantial, but I live in Vallejo and its generally accepted that ALA was the Zodiac. A friend of mine was Napa Chief of Police and he said that the one time he interviewed ALA, it was the most chilling experience of his career (and he also said that virtually every cop involved believed ALA guilty).

Its a bit strange, but no one here wants to discuss the case (I've only lived here for 3 years). It still seems to be very real to my neighbors, who lost people they knew and cared about. My next door neighbor told me that she and her friends used to go to the golf course at Lake Herman Road to stay with their buddy from school, who had a job as night watchman at the course. The thought of sitting in the dark with the Zodiac loose nearby is pretty terrifying.

I recently drove over to the house on Fresno St. where ALA lived with his mother, and it was about 8 blocks away from my house.

Oh what a falling off was there.

[–] The-Demon 8 years ago

I was in San Francisco, Benicia, Vallejo and Napa 3 weeks ago. I was in SF for 4 days and went to the Paul Stine murder scene in Presidio Heights at Washington/Cherry. It was the weirdest yet coolest experience.for someone who knew about the case since 2002 and in Canada it was a place I always wanted to see.

People have been shot anywhere but the idea a serial killer may have travelled to that specific spot to kill someone in a residential area was chilling. I went during the day and there were people casually working as if it's just a normal place. But to me I made an effort to get there while on a family trip.

I was with my 2 brothers and only 1 knew of Zodiac from me while the other didn't and he seemed interested. We walked the presumed escape route around the block and went to Maple and Cherry where Zodiac originally wanted to kill the cab driver. I believe that area isn't residential.

In Vallejo I wanted to see Fresno but that part of my trip wasn't vacation as it was 3 day wedding event with little down time. Napa was for wine tour we passed Lake Berryessa but didn't go to it.

You mentioned Lake Herman as the golf course but isn't Blue Rock Springs the golf course?

[–] ElphieDefyingGravity 8 years ago

There is a trail behind the dog park on Ascot and Coumbus Parkway. I walk my dogs there and on the trail is a sign saying Lake Herman Road with an arrow. When you walk up that trail the golf course is below, and a little further is the area where the Lake Herman Road trail meets Columbus Parkway, which I think is the site of the murders.

I'm glad you got to visit...I agree that its very eerie and interesting to see the places were these crimes occurred, and its amazing that people seem to have no clue that they are literally standing on or near the crime scenes of the Zodiac.

At the end of the film Jake Gyllenhals character tells the detective about the IHOP where one of the victims worked only a block from the Fresno St. house. The IHOP is now a Mexican restaurant (but was obviously once an IHOP...distinctive building design) and it really IS right around the corner! The Fresno St. house is a nice little bungalow that sold a few years ago for under $300,000. I owner about the people who purchased it...did they know? Is living there creepy? (it would be for me!!).

Oh what a falling off was there.

[–] The-Demon 8 years ago

Have you checked out zodiackillerfacts.com? I highly recommend it. While I enjoyed this movie when you check the site out you'll see what's Fact and what's Fincher. Gyllenhalls character Graysmith wasnt always 100% truthful. He even claims that Allen's friend told him he was interested in a waitress at a pancake restaurant.

Since you know SF/California do you know what's on Washington and Maple? I posted a thread on it.

[–] ElphieDefyingGravity 8 years ago

I signed up for the Zodiac Killers site and got an email, but I'm having issues confirming my account. Sent an email to the guyhguyh for help.

I've only lived in N.Ca for 3 years (born and raised in LA/Long Beach). What's on Washington and Maple?

Oh what a falling off was there.

[–] The-Demon 8 years ago

There is a difference between zodiackiller.com and zodiackillerfacts.com. The 2 guys used to be friends but had a falling out.

I used to be a Tom Voight supporter who runs zodiackiller.com but it seems like he's turning into Graysmith himself. Bending the truth or excluding information to make his favorite suspect appear to be Zodiac.

Michael Butterfield seems very unbiased and points out the pros and cons on everything. I spent an entire weekend reading his website.

Butterfield even pointed out something I remember about Voight about why SFPD doesn't take him seriously. Years ago Voight made a cafepress.com account selling Zodiac merchandise to help with the cost of running his website (understandable) but he would put pictires of victims like Paul Stine on beer mugs which is so disrespectable.

Anyways, Washington and Maple is the original destination for the Paul Stine crime scene. When I walked that area last month it didn't look like a residential place. Something scared off Zodiac at that particular spot that he had Paul Stine drive him a block down to Washington and Cherry.

[–] taran-rod 8 years ago

"OJ never killed Nicole so I guess that's a big mystery too, eh ;) "

Actually, I'm part of the few people who still doumpt that he did it.

[–] kmags84 8 years ago

That's because you're a Moron.

[–] Icecutter (363) 4 years ago

Lmao. Yup, conclusive.

[–] Icecutter (363) 4 years ago

It was him.
Or him alongside an accomplice, which is almost the same thing.

The only other explanation is he was framed by an incredibly psychopathic but clever police officer. Which is just too far out to be plausible.

[–] Icecutter (363) 4 years ago

Actually I've changed my mind! Lawrence Kane now probably is my top suspect! Was Kane even explored in the film?