MovieChat Forums > Zodiac (2007) Discussion > What proof Zodiac did Lake Berryessa?

What proof Zodiac did Lake Berryessa?


I've been thinking, how do we know 100% Zodiac killed at the lake?

The 1st and 2nd murders u know it was done by the same person because he gives details about both crimes.

The cab murder scene he sends a letter with the shirt.

At the lake he does give the dates of the crimes in vallejo writing it on the car but by then it was already in the newspaper and the symbol was already shown. It could have been some guy read about people dying, used the symbol in his costume and did the stabbing.

Zodiac never mentions once any reference to the lake killing in his letters.

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Some "facts" show that it was the Zodiac Killer.

-The phone call after the murder. I'm not sure but I think the papers/police never made it public that the Zodiac called the police after the crimes. Again, I'm not sure but if that is true then the copycat could not have known he had also to call after the crime.

-His posture matched (for the most part) with the man at the Paul Stine murder

-Handwriting matched as far as I know. If it was a copycat I guess he needed more time to imitate the handwriting correctly, but the handwriting on the car showed it was done pretty fast.

This are some facts, but it can still be a copycat. For example, his costume.

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It is true that the killer did call the police but I'm not sure if it was public knowledge at the time if the killer of the July 4th crime called the police or not. Someone can verify that.

I don't know if it was said the writing was the same on the car or not.

As for the voice and build, a lot of people can have that description. Average males in their late 30s tend to be overweight and many people have similar sounding voices.

I just think a gruesome attack at the lake, Zodiac would have bragged about it. But he never mentions it once.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here. But imagine all these years this wasn't even a zodiac crime.

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Yes I know it is true that the killer called afterwards, but I'm not sure if it was made public after the 4th july murder.

The remarkable things are indeed he didn't send a letter days later after the murder, and his costume. Why did he wear that? If he knew he was gonna kill them.

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But I've seen 1969 footages where someone like Captain Marty Lee does say that this killer calls police and brags about it after he commits an act. So for sure it's public knowledge after the September 27th attack but still not sure after the July 4th attack.


Actually, Zodiac did say that it was a negro male who saw him at the phone booth. When he called police on July 4th he hung up the telephone and then the phone started ringing. This is why at the Lake Berryessa attack the caller just put the phone down ans not hang up.

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Yes, that's well stated, sgtpowers. Why would a "copycat" don an elaborate costume, attack in broad daylight on a relatively open, grassy lake-shore, then switch from gun to knife to commit his crime if he were indeed a copycat? People may offer further speculations, but I believe those will not stand up to Occam's razor*, i.e., the least amount of assumptions points to the Zodiac as the Lake Berryessa responsible. He was intensifying/expanding his M.O. This is common behavior for serial killers.**

The fact that Bryan Hartnell survived and related the events to law enforcement and the media did work in Zodiac's favor. Why would Zodiac need to follow up with the newspapers?

Furthermore, people often overlook the fact that just two weeks following the Lake Berryessa attack, the Zodiac carried out the Paul Stine cabbie murder (Oct.11, 1969), involving planning, preparation, and the mailing of a letter of responsibility immediately after committing the crime. Four weeks after that, Zodiac devised, completed, and sent the 340 cipher (Nov.8, 1969). No matter what anyone believes the cipher may or may not say – look at it – that thing wasn't put together overnight! If the zodiac worked at least part-time (probable), then he obviously had a lot more on his plate during these months—his most active period—than to concern himself with seeking redundant credit for Lake Berryessa.

NOTE: Members of one or more of the amateur community Zodiac research sites have identified the significance of the "candy cane"-style lowercase "f", 3-stroke "k", and low-cross "t" found on the VW Karmann Ghia car door and in canonical (acknowledged) Zodiac communications. [Specific observations made by community member, Bently, a.k.a., Wrench.]

Other researchers have also pointed out the parallel of the "by knife" from the car door and the hand-printed "By KNiFE" on the back of the Halloween card, which Zodiac mailed Oct.27, 1970 (exactly 13 months later).

* "Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

**The MO is what the offender must do in order to commit the crime. For example, the killer must have a means to control his victims at the crime scene such as tying them up. Significantly, the MO is a learned behavior that is subject to change.

A serial killer will alter and refine his MO to accommodate new circumstances or to incorporate new skills and information.
For example, instead of using rope to tie up a victim, the offender may learn that it is easier and more effective to bring handcuffs to the crime scene.


— Scott A. Bonn Ph.D.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201506/serial-killers-modus-operandi-signature-staging-posing

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Yep, they're wasn't just one 'Zodiac Killer'. A lot of the 'Zodiac Killings' and the 'Zodiac Kilier' is not unlike the mythology of Jack the Ripper.

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I'm not saying different people killed in every single attack. But I wouldn't be shocked if some tried to do their own attack to make it look like Zodiac we just don't hear about it. But maybe this one is the only one that people believe it was.

It's the only attack that was by knife
It was odd he wore a costume if he was gonna kill them anyways.
There is a sketch of a strange man (we see a glimpse of it at the end when Dave flips through the files) looks nothing like the popular SF sketch (which I hate they never showed in the movie)

I think the Lake Herman Road, Blue Rock Springs and Washington/Cherry killings were done by the same person and writer. I just wouldn't be shocked if Lake Berryessa attack was some copycat considering that it was the most gruesome attack yet Zodiac never makes a mention of it.

He says he killed 5 after the Paul Stine murder because he already acknowledged Mike Meagau survived. Maybe he was counting Cecelia and assumed Bryan died too.

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From what I remember the only real evidence it was the same guy was the writing on the car door matched how Zodiac wrote his letters.

http://www.youtube.com/oneinchvag

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That's what I read after. And I get the writing was done too fast to be manipulated. But I don't get how writing on a car can match the writing on a paper. A lot of people's writing on a chalk board is different then writing on paper in school.

I'm no conspiracy theorist. But I just find it weird Zodiac never bragged about his costume, the way he stabbed the girl or any reference or confirmation he did that crime. In the Vallejo crimes Zodiac said what the victims where wearing, where they were sitting and what kind of bullet and fun he used.

Thats why it's hard to believe its the same guy.

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It was the same guy, though.

http://www.youtube.com/oneinchvag

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That's not much of a debate. It probably is the same guy. I just never read anything where Zodiac said anything about the lake.

He made up a story about escaping from prison to the victims. He could have sad "I'm the guy who killed people up north". All it was some writing on a car door with the dates that have already been published to the newspaper woth the symbol.

They say the writing matches on the car but the SF claims the riverside writing were the same as Zodiac but Riverside says no.

Unless Zodiac taped paper to a wall and wrote the letters to disguise his writing it's hard to understand how writing on a door is the same as writing on a table.

Even to the conspiracy theorist who claim there was more then one killer. If for whatever reason it was true, the writer took credit still for 3 crimes with proof but nothing mentioned about the lake.

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