MovieChat Forums > The Illusionist (2006) Discussion > Two Plot Holes (SPOILERS)

Two Plot Holes (SPOILERS)


First, Sophie's "death" - to pull it off would have required the cooperation of at least her family (not likely), as her death would have required a funeral and burial.

Second, the evidence Uhl found in the stable. Enough time passed between the murder and the search that the stable would have been cleaned out - especially in a "royal" stable, and especially the straw.

"Well, there it is."

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Yeah, I was wondering about these things too. Especially about the locket. What, they don't clean the stables or something? And that was where a supposed murder took place.

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The first one isn't a plot hole because her family is never even a factor in the movie. She also could have been independent of them seeing as how she was living with the Crown Prince. For the second, you have to take into account that the stable wasn't a "crime scene" per se because no one was ever found dead there. People witnessed her being carried off to an unknown location on a horse...so how could the stable be the scene of a crime? The crime scene is where the body actually is, if anything it would have been the creek where Sophie was found.

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Yeah, the stable thing threw me off, too. It was supposed to be weeks if not months after the incident that the detective investigated the crime scene. And the spot hadn't been cleaned since!?!

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Last movie watched: The Illusionist (8/10)

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Her family is very much a part of the movie. Her family tracks her down as a teenager, intervening in her relationship with Eisenheim. Second, if you listen carefully, the Crown Prince's marriage to Sophie is crucial to his plot - her family has major influence in Hungary.

And the stable was indirectly part of the crime scene - Sophie rode off on a horse from there, and suspicions first raised when the horse returned riderless and bloodied. And crime scene or no, you'd expect it should have been cleaned.

"Well, there it is."

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Also, the man in the house heard her yell out and say no as the Prince was "attacking her" with the sword just before the horse rode off with her.

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I have no doubt that if Eisenheim could pull off all of the amazing tricks that he did, and he was a co-conspirator with the doctor/mortician, that he could have easily created a story by which her family would have to wait for the body. The Doctor could have easily said that the Royal family was going to makie all of the arrangements, while telling the Royal family that the family would do so. This is my simplistic mind and not that of the Illusionist's. He could have simply made her body disappear - which he did in the end.
Dawn

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I believe its hard to get around the funeral situation. . . your theory is satisfactory. . . but I still take issue with the entire situation. . .

I would think that her death and funeral would be very public. . . but that's just me.

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the only thing I can think of regarding Sophie's family is maybe her parents had died, so while her extended family had influence in Hungary and may have wanted a funeral, they didn't have direct control over her so she could avoid the actual funeral and could go away with the magician. that's the only other explanation I have as to why a 29 year old noble woman wouldn't already be married.

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And the chances of finding a tiny, discarded Gem stone in among all that hay (not to mention spotting it the moment he walked in there), are pretty slim, even if they were smelly enough to noy muck out the horses.

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Agreed. I could accept the scene where the impostor coroner gives the gem to the Inspector, but I found it nonsensical that the Inspector happened to catch the glimpse of something in the stable stall and then be able to find another gem with the actual locket at a far later time.

Come to think of it, no... I can't accept the scene of the first gem being valid evidence. How would the first gem become stuck in the folds of the Duchess's dress in the first place and had not shaken loose during the trotting while upon the horse and then not wash away from in the lake? You would think the Inspector would have gave this some crucial thought as it would surely been a strange occurrence.

If the impostor coroner had said that he found the little gem in her corset or something to that effect, that would have made some sense.

As far as the Duchess's family, the Duchess could have pre-planned her fake death with her family. The only trouble is that I don't buy that because royal families expect far too much from their offspring and the Duchess's family would certainly not have allowed her to run off with a lowly magician. The fake funeral would certainly be a plot hole in itself. How would the impostor coroner finish the task of having a body delivered to Hungary? Maybe the coroner was real, but paid off. Although, I highly doubt that Eisenheim would risk trying to pay off a coroner that would entail being jailed or worse. Being a paid impostor coroner, how did everyone accept that the old fellow was the official town's coroner and the real coroner missed the high priority call to examine the body of a Duchess?

Oh, my... I'm really digging way too deep, aren't I?

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There are a few occasions like this. It is called "suspending disbelief." As long as they don't push it too far. You just have to kind of overlook it.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

No. Suspending disbelief has to do with accepting the universe the film is set in. I accept the magic in Lord of the Rings as common to that universe. I suspend disbelief that Peter Parker could make webshooters because there's a sci-fi aspect to Spiderman.

Plot holes are not cause for suspending disbelief. Plot holes are cause for issues in the story. To go back to Spiderman, if his webshooters were distroyed, but then he uses one again a little later when he obviously didn't have time to rebuild it, then its a plot hole.

Someone not cleaning that stable is not consistent with the movie universe. It is a plot hole.

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okay, here's another plot hole:

before the twist ending, when they find sophie dead in the river, eisenheim rushes into the water and shows great distress over her death. then they show her in the carriage car (hearse, basically) and the inspector looks over her dead body. he handles her fingers and hand, etc.

later, as the a-ha moment is being played out with the inspector thinking it through, they show this scene again, but eisenheim gives her the wake-up-from-the-dead potion in the river and sophie is seen "returning to life" right there. so then was she back to life in the hearse? the inspector would have noticed a pulse, a warm body, movements, etc. as he looked over her if it had happened that way. so it could not have.

to be more succinct, the movie should have shown eisenheim waking her with the potion after she travelled away in the hearse instead of in the river. but as the inspector put everything together, it does not work.

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I also found the idea of having evidence lying around in a stable for many days (It appeared to me as if weeks had passed, with Eisenheim faking grief etc) without being discovered or at least cleaned out, preposterous, but I was willing to overlook that.
What annoyed me a whole lot more are the gemstones.

1. Eisenheim supposedly took them during his little sword trick at the Hofburg - this means he was either trying to rob the crown prince, or was already at that moment planning on framing him - far before he has valid reason to think that Sophie is still in love with him.
of course he MIGHT have somehow gotten his hands on those stones afterwards, or Sophie might have removed them from the sword right at the scene in the stables (But this would make the flashback of the sword-trick pretty superfluous).

2. How is it that killing someone with a jewel studded sword by stabbing them in the neck is likely to make jewels fall from their sockets AT THE LOWER PART near the hilt of the sword?! Did he ram the entire thing into her from head to toe? This was probably just overlooked, since it would have been just as easy to use the jewels at the other end of the sword, but it made me cringe nonetheless.

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[deleted]

If you listen to the commentary, the whole sequence at the end with the Inspector realizing what had happened was all in the Inspector's mind, so it doesn't have to make sense since that's only the way he thought things had went. We actually don't know what really happened, she might have actually been killed.
The whole thing with finding the gems was part of a set-up, Eisenheim most likely took the gems when he handled the sword on the stage and then planted them in her dress and in the hay.


I DIED IN EPISODE 81!!!

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I think joolztoolz best explained it:

"This is another cool part. The inspector doesn't check her pulse. He holds her hand and visually inspects her wound. Eisenheim had something in a vial he packed into a suitcase for her that must have put her in a state that feined death and he had an antidote. Since she was found in the water, that would have lowered her body temperature somewhat. All the inspector did was to possibly see if rigor mortis had set it in to determine the time of death perhaps.

Eisenheim planned everything from the start. He was one step ahead of everybody. Remember at the beginning when she asks him to make them both disappear? He tells her when they're teenagers that there's a guy in China that can make anything disappear. He eventually goes there.

It seems he did have mystical talents. The sword trick was cool. He already knew he was going to frame the Prince before he ever showed up at the castle.

I liked the movie--Eisenheim was way ahead of everybody."



"Son of a submariner!" - Kefka Palazzo

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Not sure if this is relevant to this thread per se, but here is my outlying thought:

When the Inspector confronts the Prince, the Prince goes to get a gun to kill the Inspector. They keep talking and we see that the Prince eventually kills himself (how noble). I do find it odd that he doesn't kill the Inspector first, then kill himself next (murder/suicide). Certainly we are led to believe that he has killed before (threw another woman off the balcony) and drugged/thought to have killed Sophia.

Also, this is one element of Eisenheims plot which could have been a true disaster- the killing of the Inspector.

I guess this is where we chalk it up to just enjoying the movie rather than analyzing every detail. ;-)

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She rode away on the horse from that stable. There is no indication the horse was ever returned - the stable is still empty when the inspector visits. So why would it be cleaned?

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In the winter in Germany many people wouldn't clean the stables because it would help keep the horses warm. If the locket was small enough not to be picked up by a pitchfork then the stall could have been cleaned without necessarily finding it (unlikely but possible). The place wasn't a crime scene because it was property of the prince and the police had no jurisdiction there. The fact that the stones aren't realistic evidence doesn't really matter. He left them there so that the inspector would associate the wound with the Prince's sword, whether it would stand up as factual evidence is irrelevant.

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In the winter in Germany


Last time I checked Vienna was still the capital of Austria. As for cleaning the stables, you could think that the Emperor and his family were rich enough to be able to warm their stables in a different way than piling the sh*t inside.

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"She rode away on the horse from that stable. There is no indication the horse was ever returned - the stable is still empty when the inspector visits. So why would it be cleaned?"

We see the horse walk back by itself and the camera pans around it and we see blood on it.

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I figured Eisenheim made arrangements with the family. For many reasons they would want her with him and not the Prince. I won't go into great detail but I think it's obvious how he treated women, and her, no doubt. For Eisenheim that would be the least of his "cons." He had lots of money to give them, if necessary. He could promise her family that she would be much more happy.
The stable got me. Tonight when I watched again I realized that the horse wasn't in the stable long enough to mess it up. Who's going to clean a clean stable? Especially after seeing Sophie ride out hanging over the horse? There was something really bad happening and you'd stay far away from where you heard or saw a horrible fight take place and then saw her hanging (I don't know if any of the men could see blood.) This is true even if there was a bit to clean up. It's a crime scene, right? Someone innocent got picked up for her murder, it could have occurred to a stable guy that this happened all of the time and he needed to stay away from what could be the crime scene.
Dawn

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Unfortunately, those aren't only plot holes. The film is full of them and for me it ruined the enjoyment of it.

The first BIG one is why go on with the entire charade? Everyone thought Sophie was dead, police arrested a suspect and Eisenheim could have just gone from Vienna, pair up with Sophie somewhere and live happily ever after. No one would look for them. Sophie wouldn't be able to use her real name anyway. So, why did he do it? Nothing in his character implied that he cared for the country. He even said when they made love that it was practically only his love for her that brought him back (the one big mystery he couldn't solve).

It is unlikely that he went with the scheme just to be safe from the crown prince. Since everyone thought Sophie was dead and a scapegoat was in jail, no one would look for them. Sure, there is one in a million chance that somewhere someone would recognize here but it is million times less risky than taking on the crown prince and the entire police. There is really no logic in what he did.

Compared to that, all other plot holes are minor - stables that are not cleaned ever, what happened with the body and the burial, how did inspector figured it all out (he couldn't have known all the details), the fact that chief inspector was laughing when he found out that he was responsible for crown princes death because of a crime crown prince didn't commit (yes, he was a scumbag but chief inspector knew that before),

Very amateurish, with the big plot twist at the end to confuse us and hopefully divert our attention from the big plot holes.

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I thought that a large part of the scheme was to get rid of the Crown Prince as well. So while some nobody was arrested, the scheme wasn't done with yet, was it? The rest of the plan is to get the Crown Prince framed...which is why they didn't leave. PLUS, in the movie, it said that the Inspector was watching Eisenheim during those weeks/months after her death. While the Inspector knew that the nobody they arrested wasn't guilty, he also knew that Eisenheim wouldn't be satisfied, which is why they kept a close watch on him. If he randomly disappeared...what would that say?
And he's an illusionists; the tricks have to be big. Simply having a random person charged for the Duchess's 'murder' and then running away wouldn't be that big would it? He would want more from this trick...more grandeur.

"Contempt loves the silence, it thrives in the dark" -Merchant

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Quote:Everyone thought Sophie was dead, police arrested a suspect and Eisenheim could have just gone from Vienna, pair up with Sophie somewhere and live happily ever after.

Because they didn't want an innocent executed to preserve their own lives? Killing a member of the aristocracy was a capital offense and unlikely to end with the sentence commuted. I don't think they were trying to get Rudolf to commit suicide, just to lay enough seeds of doubt to make certain their happiness was not built on another's death.

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Because they didn't want an innocent executed to preserve their own lives? Killing a member of the aristocracy was a capital offense and unlikely to end with the sentence commuted.


So OK, Leopold blown his own head into pieces with a bullet, and so what? The innocent is still in jail, waiting for the execution, because The Imperial Family won't never ever admit that tle late Crown Prince was a murderer. No frickin' way.

I don't think they were trying to get Rudolf


Leopold, if you please. Do not confuse the idiot from the movie with the real Crown Prince.

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They had to get rid of the Crown Prince somehow. I don't think they banked on him killing himself, but they framed him well enough that the Inspector would have been able to arrest him, royalty or not. You saw how the Austrians felt about the possibility that he had done it. I think that's why he shot himself, because he was sure that they could get him on Sophie's murder. He was frustrated that everyone believed Eisenhiem's trick. He didn't shoot himself over the guilt that he might have killed Sophie, after all. He didn't love her, and he clearly didn't believe that he was the murderer.

But they did have to eliminate Neopold somehow. You heard Sophie, he would look for her, and he had enough resources that he would find her. I have no doubt that Eisenhiem would have been able to keep the Prince at bay with his tricks, but wouldn't it be simpler and easier to just get rid of him altogether? Again, I don't think Neopold even believed she was dead. He seemed pretty convinced that Eisenhiem was just tricking everyone, and even if he hadn't, he didn't think that he had killed her. He knew that Eisenhiem wouldn't really kill Sophie because he knew how they felt about each other. And even if, against all the odds, Neopold believed Sophie was dead and wouldn't look for her, he was set on destroying Eisenhiem. He would have followed Eisenhiem, and even if Eisenhiem stopped playing shows and stayed under the radar, everyone knew who he was. You saw that at the end, where the little boy was asked who gave him the envelope and he responded "Herr Eisenhiem!" even though he had been wearing a disguise.

Tl;dr Yes, they had to get rid of the Prince or else he would have ruined them.

Also, in regard to getting the stones...it's also possible that Eisenhiem took the stones from the sword the same way he took the locket from the Inspector's pocket. (:

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Plot hole arguments should get saved for street crime movies, political melodramas etc. This was fantasy and romance.

Besides, the "guy at the castle", the arch-Butler, was obviously in on it, planted stable stuff etc.

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Exactly! Wouldn't it have become evident at some point that there was no BODY?

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All they needed to do was send a different body to her family for burial. It would have taken several days to get there anyway. No one would have bothered to check it was her body. he family could have been easily fooled with a fake body.

The stable thing was a big set up. When her apperation says that her locket is missing that was a cue given to the police guy to search the stable. Someone was working with the countess from the inside. Helped plant the locket or steal the gem and plant it in the stable.

The entire plan was hatched on the day they had their romantic encounter. Hence her unusual boldness in confronting the crown prince. She provoked him but also ensured that he was very drunk too drunk to remember. There was probably someone at the stable waiting for them, or she did the whole thing herself. He probably never stabbed her. He may have passed out and then she removed the gems form the sword sprayed her self and horse with stored blood.

The directors wanted the illusions to be convincing enough to enthrall a movie audience so CGI is permitted.

This is one of the best movies I have seen.

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Yes. These were not plot holes.

1. Body was cold and pulse subdued with drugs (which they show)...prearranged body/coffin switch to closed-casket burial= no family problem.

2. The locket was NOT there the whole time; rather they knew the inspector would look for it after the 'ghost' mentioned it, so they waited and planted it at that moment to insure it would be found.

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Could also be that the stable place was was left empty and unused after the murder. So no one would have cleaned it and the locket and the gem stone would still be there even weeks afterwards.

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