Razzies
Possible razzie nominee?
sharerazzie? have you seen it? the movie rules... better than training day, narc and cuba's best in along time...
share[deleted]
Not the only one who thinks it's superior to Training Day -- Variety said it was better than Training Day, better than Crash, and I agree.
shareWhat does Variety know? This joint's going straight to DVD for a reason. I LOVE corrupt cop movies, and I'm very open to flawed or junky scripts. But this one was a trainwreck...The end had potential though it was all too muddled to have the impact it could've. Cuba and Clifton had taken responsibility for killing the innocent old guy. When the captain was being interviewed by IA he said so, though he didnt specify which one. But if Clifton really had shot the old guy, than why would Cuba take the blame? Not to mention that Clifton shot him with his official police firearm, a little something called ballistics people...?
I won't go into all my other beefs with the movie, but something's seriously wrong when the plot's big payoff twist is completely absurd....and in one of the threads someone said it was more realalistic than Training Day with none of the "John Woo" ending. Training Day hardly had them flying in slow-mo with twin pistols blazing, and Dirty ended with a cop getting shot in the police parking lot....in broad daylight. Which of the two endings do we think is more probable?
couldn't disagree more... first of all, it didn't go straight to DVD, i saw it in the theatres in los angeles. second, the dialogue and 'world' created was far more realistic to the los angeles gang world than traiing day. third, cuba and clifton NEVER took responsibility for the old guy, that was the point of the movie... and keith david's character was only telling IA that they shot the old man because he had already put a hit on them and wasn't worried about their testimony coming back onto him as well as putting a smoke screen over the hit. fourth, clifton was struggling with his memory and his responsiblity the entire film, that was his redemption, that was the meaning of his tattoo on his chest at the beginning 'remembrance is redemption' (which was backwards on his chest for him to read) and that he was responsible and thus has to pay the ultimate price. fifth, clifton did NOT shoot him with his police firearm as they were planting guns and drugs on the dead gangsters at the time and he shot him with one of the 'plant guns'... it is a complex movie and it is a complex story, but don't hate what you don't understand. and the ending with gangsters shooting a cop in broad daylight -- unfortunately, welcome to the world we live in, maybe you remember terrorists flying planes into the world trade center in the middle of the day?
shareFair enough. It's quite possible that I have a bad memory, but as there's no way for me to go back and watch it again, we'll have to agree to disagree....
I could have sworn that when the captain was being interviewed by IA (the "my men are soldiers" scene) he said that his officers killed the gang memebers, and then shot the old man as he was "drunk and confrontational" and they thought he was reaching for a gun. Clifton was torn apart by the truth, which was that his partner was the confrontational one who killed the old man without just reason...until the end when we see it was Clifton himelf (which if I remembered the IA scene right, doesn't make any sense at all.)
Maybe the captain was dumping the blame on them and I missed it. But the whole point of the scene was that he was defending thier violent actions, not coming clean about two dirty officers.
Overall my feelings for the movie have warmed up some this morning. I still think it was deeply flawed, but i'd give it another chance once it's on DVD.....And I know it got something of a release, but opening in a few cities in February, getting panned by critics, and then releasing to DVD in April...might as well have been straight to video in the first place...
[deleted]
it was only in los angeles theatres for a couple weeks and it was not advertised at all... the los angeles reviews LA Weekly, Variety, LA Times were pretty good and ebert loved it on ebert/roeper so it may have had a stronger push and better buzz here than elsewhere... and i probably won't go watch it again either right away (i did order the dvd)... but the captain did tell IA that his men were soldiers and that they shot the old man in self-defense, but the REASON he did this was that he thought the 'hit' he put on them would be successful so that the illegal shooting of the old man would end with his testimony... basically, he was laying the blame on them knowing they could not them open up 'the can of worms' so to speak on the whole division because they'd be dead by the end of the day -- the 'today is the day' motif... so, i guess i saw that scene as the captain being clever enough to not defile the two officers (so not to make him look like a suspect in the hit), but at the same time firmly placing the blame on them... i may be wrong, but that's how i read it
share^^^ yeah, that would make sense, but what's not clear to me was whether Clifton and Cuba shooting the old guy was news to IA, or if Cuba and Clifton had taken responsibility for the old guy and Clifton was going to come clean about how it was an unjustified shooting. In which case I again bring up the fact that Cuba couldnt have taken the fall as Clifton used his service weapon. They were planting guns on the dead guys, but had used their own guns to kill the gangsters (the planted weapons justifying the kills) and I would have assumed that Cuba or Clifton would have still been holding their gun and used it to shoot the old guy.....If this was the case, your explanation of the captain scene could still make sense, but the grey area of which one actually shot the old guy doesnt....
Honestly, I'm confusing myself now and niether of us can prove anything off of our memories of one viewing.
I was initially put-off by Cuba's perfomance, the ghosts, and some hazy plot details, but stylistically it was on point. I love the LA cop/gang movies, even the crappier ones like "A Man Apart," and I feel like a repeat viewing of "Dirty," focusing on the atmosphere rather than plot, could be rewarding....Wyclef was ill, Wood Harris was G-ed up as always (dude only plays one role- "Paid In Full," "The Wire," "Dirty"....) the Canadian drug dealers were funny, the beach skateboarders, Russian Roulette scene...there were mos definitely scenes to be appreciated...
tbonejesus3000, I hate to be the one to bust your bubble but TRAINING DAY was as real as they come for those like you who haven't a clue. Training day was based on true events that happened in Oakland, Calif.(Riders Lawsuit) & L.A (Rampart Divison in LAPD). It blew my mind when I first seen Training Day but I guess b/c it was taken from two of the biggest cases w/ in "two seperate" rogue police dept. in "two major cities", they didn't bother to mention it was based on true events. Real events in a movie usually stem from one true story or situation. I grew up in the streets of Oakland & use to live in Compton. I've seen things the average American citizen wouldn't imagine in his wildest nightmares would happen in our police dept's. Most of us that kept up on corruption & the fall of Cali's worst rogue officers & dept's. when they made the head lines recognized these events immediately in Training day. I was glad for the exposure b/c some people don't realize how bad it is dealing w/ rogue officers & being victimized till they see it w/ their own eyes. I dug up some links & will enclose them. A small group of officers in Oakland considered themselves a gang w/ in the dept & called themselves The Riders. One of them skipped bail & considered to be hiding out in Mexico. It was a young Caucasian rookie, who refused to let them intimadate him, that exposed the them. His dream was to become a cop((( http://www.garone.com/writing/riders.html )))link. In L.A many cops got away w/ murder & abuse & thise caught in the Rampart Division were just a drop in the bucket ((( http://www.garone.com/writing/riders.html )))What u read in these links is what u seen in Training Day which was made less then a year after. Deceptive thugs & people w/ deep rooted issues slip thru the cracks everywhere & luck up on a badge, not just in major cities. They just don't get caught.
shareum, well, i couldn't agree with you more... TRAINING DAY, DIRTY, and DARK BLUE were all based on the Rampart Scandal, and to a lesser degree, the Oakland Riders scandal... actually, i know from one of clifton collins jr. interviews that his cousin, a former Oakland cop who was heavily involved with the Oakland Riders was not only the on-set consultant, but also a script consultant for DIRTY... btw, i'm a huge clifton collins jr fan and know he's also from the 'streets of los angeles' and brought alot of credibility and heart to DIRTY...
let me say this also, i sort of liked TRAINING DAY, what i didn't like was that the filmmakers felt that had to have the cliched 'good white cop' to make the story accessible to the masses (ethan hawke's character) -- there was NO REASON for denzel to bring him into the fold, it was just totally unbelievable... and i like how DIRTY represented had two minority leads, both of whom had their own connections to their respective gang(s) as well as their division -- some people might think it's promoting stereotypes, but go to east la or compton and you will definitely NOT see a bunch of white gangstas
if you want to know more about the REAL PEOPLE that cuba and clifton play go to google and type in "rafael peres" or "david mack" or "rampart scandal"...
peace
I hate to burst your bubble but films like Training Day and Dirty are exaggerations of events and some theatre thrown in for entertainment. You can bat around words like Rampart, Perez, CRASH but that doesn't mean that the overwhelming officers that work Gang units are these rogue officers people seem to want to believe they are.
If people believe that, then I guess we must also view the movie as based upon real events and that all of the people living in those neighborhoods are drug dealing murderers. Yep, every neighborhood they rolled through, those were all gang bangers looking to sell some rock or go out and shoot someone. Don't be absurd just because you dislike the police.
i understood DIRTY as a cautionary tale about the worst of the worst, which is what the rampart scandal was, which is who rafael perez and david mack were... i did not read the film as an attack on police officers in general, or even the lapd in general... i think it was a smart, intense, and at times scary, tale about two (2) rogue cops... i think it is partially based on true events, mostly a fiction... i liked the film and i don't dislike police... i believe it is important for art to address serious issues of social importance and police corruption, and corruption of our institutions in general, is serious to me -- so speak for yourself.
shareThe above comment by me was not in response to what you had written but rather from another post. It appears as if both comments were made as replies to an earlier comment.
There is no doubt that issues like police corruption needs to be talked about, however I also believe that when doing so people need to speak from knowledge and not ignorance. It is easy to say, "oh look at this film, it is based on the Rampart scandal...dirty cops..." Remember that with the all the push the name Rafael Perez gets, it only lead to three convictions, which were all over turned within the same year. Three other officers though did plead to guilty to lesser charges. Hardly an onslought of corruption for a force of over 9000.
dirty is an ok movie,but in now way is it even close to being even in the same class of training day.
training day was in my opinion a master piece,
dirty is just another corrupt cop flick,largely thanks to cuba gooding washington. i mean jnr
Like I said in another board, the WORST movie of the year so far (And I've seen Underword 2, FD3, Date Movie and When a Stranger Calls). Clifton Collins Jr. was fine but Cuba's character was underdeveloped and Wyclef should have a special Razzie reserverd for him.
"Did you drink-and-dial?"
i thought it was not one of the best, but the worst? i mean, c'mon, stop the haterade... THE SHIELD, TRAINING DAY, DARK BLUE and DIRTY are all based on the same LAPD scandal, but like someone else said, they are all very different and all totally fictional...
shareIts on DVD already. I bought it, watched it last night, and have no regrets. Salim Adel was evil to himself, his partner, and the community, and a fool. Armando Sancho(assonance?) was the conscience of the team. Ironically, I did not read the tattoo on the first viewing so missed the thread of the movie, but it all makes sense. 'Redemption doesn't come that easy, homes.'
Oh, I live in Miami and a cop was killed half a block from the outreach station in Liberty City (yes, the one that GTA:VC is based on), which is in the middle of the Scott projects. We had our own problems with police corruption in South Florida, similar to Rampart; that is, cops stealing money and reselling confiscated drugs.
the cause of my ambivalence is the effect of your own--me