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The Doctor Falls / No More - What did you think? (River Song's catchphrase)

posted 7 years ago by [deleted]
26 replies | jump to latest

-----------------SPOILERS!-------------------

Since spoiler tags don't close properly at the moment consider everything from this point forward a spoiler. Don't say you were not warned.

[spoiler]Would you like a Jelly Baby?[/spoiler]

I really enjoyed the episode, the biggest weakness for me was the whole Nardole (Now with added backstory!) is upstairs waiting for the already very well developed Cybermen to evolve at a much faster pace again and come back and wipe out those kiddie winkles and his love interest within the week. Sure The Doctor could always fly back in his Tardis and save them but that particular story wasn't wrapped up by the end credits and would detract from the Christmas special. A computer virus timebomb which meant the ending still went the way it did but would eradicate the Cybermen an hour or two later would have resolved that.

Now, onto the good stuff!

The Missy/Master storyline was very nicely done. Not only did neither Simms or Gomez not back down or steal the other's limelight but both presented someone who normally, with any other character in a scene, would be the domineering force that The Master/Missy is - a great pairing done with graceful acting. Great jokes thrown across the gender divide by both and I finally got a bit of Bill and Ted logic thrown in with the macguffin for their Tardis to be repaired. Enough room to work around that beautiful suicide/backstab for a future writer to have (If need be) but also works elegantly as is. I could have done with more of them but I know that's down to my gluttony rather than appreciate of the finesse presented.

PART 2 below!

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Bill's resurrection threw me completely. I had forgotten about Puddle Girl but again so subtly done and beyond The Doctor's ability to help her beyond his having hope. The tears/hope lines really were brought to life by Mackie. I was doubting the whole Girl Who Waited / Asylum of the Daleks motifs could be explored again respectfully and was happy to see my worries held no weight. The two women off to explore the universe thing was better done, by a mile, than with Clara and Me. A nice end to Bill's time with The Doctor and her way of saying she really liked/loved him was perfectly delightful. Well done Pearl!

Onto The Doctor himself. Capaldi does a long death justice, just achy enough to know it is happening but angry enough that you hope he gets through it. Moffat held off on focussing on The Doctor in the first third to let The Missy/Master stuff get to shine, the middle third to let Bill's hopelessness dim to dark and the last to showcase The Doctor's demise into giving up and then coming back by not letting go. His meeting "THEE original Doctor" was an existentialist crisis not before presented by the show. I hope it chugs along the identity/self path and resolves itself only when presented with Chibnail's first joie de vivre for his Doctor. As swan songs go this Da Capo of Moffat's is sounding strong and be it cheers or sadness or happiness when his position as showrunner is over one thing is for certain; it will be thunderous.

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

I have to admit I got a bit choked up during the episode - especially the part with [spoiler]Bill leaving with "Puddle Girl." And I didn't expect The Master and Missy killing one another (with Missy being permanent - if you can actually believe that, considering the history of The Master returning). And I knew David Bradley would be playing the first Doctor, but I was expecting that in the Xmas episode, not this one![/spoiler]

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I got chocked up a tiny bit a couple of times MrWitticism, I even had those man-tears which somehow are just tear ducts producing more excretion and so your eyes pass the excess off onto the sides closer to one's ears as it wasn't a bubbly emotion wrought sentimental sledgehammer being swung about but rather a thing of beauty which most of us can't express on an emotional level which is understood to others. That alienating mantrap which many men don't worry or fuss over but can empathise with on some core note. A note which, if you look at the length of my first sentence replying to you shows out archaic it is to try and describe.

As for Missy/The Master returning I thought it was dealt with superbly. I didn't want to expand to much upon it with my first thoughts but it works as a single story, a great conclusion to the character. That said, there is room for a return and it is already established how during Moffat's run.

In The Day of the Doctor Matt Smith's Doctor starts to recall his adventures with his prior selves whilst in the National Gallery looking at the broken Gallifreyan/Zygon art with the words "Oh no not now, not now I'm busy! No, this is different, I remember this, well, sort of remember. Of course. This is where I come in!". When Missy threatens The Master enough for him to remember to always carry the thingamabob in his future, to fix their Tardis, and she is carrying it on his behalf shows that there was enough of the crossed time streams for her to recall being him and how it must play out. It's possible that she recalls shooting herself in the back and takes precautions to prevent it from being effective.

Still, I liked that it could be a denouement for The Master or at least make them different in the future.

That all said, "Leave It to Nardole" left me scratching my chin.

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

I got choked up... but in a manly way

[–] keithmovies (627) 7 years ago

I'm thinking Nardole will find another shuttle craft, because one would think the designers of the colony ship would have thought about the possibility of problems on different decks and the need to evacuate the ship itself from various points on the exterior hull.

The Doctor has met his former selves before and the First Doctor has in turn experienced the reality of further life in other forms. No doubt if there is any counselling to occur he will be able to convey to the Doctor's latest self there is life beyond and he can prosper rather than it being a punishment or a burden. He too is an older man who knows about the anxiety of death in a way experienced by humans who typically or frequently know of only one life and one personality experience, unique to that regeneration compared to the awareness of subsequent regenerations of the Doctor (though the change has never been without trepidation for them either).

Interesting to compare the situation to Bill who was given a chance to regenerate by "Puddle Girl" and continue as a living entity in a positive affirming way rather than as a slave to the Cybermen. She was freed from a type of prison and she or they have helped the Doctor onto a path to freedom for his soul but as a material entity and as a Time Lord. He can't "rest in peace" but maybe he can be at peace.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'd just like the Nardole story to have been wrapped up enough that it's not kids being wiped out or saved in a spin-off audio book or comic. It wouldn't have taken much to have brought that to resolve and let Capaldo, Gomez and Moffat focus on their exit.

Besides that I agree with you, the Bill situation and the original Doctor - it's all very exciting.

Only 5 months and a few weeks to go now :)

[–] keithmovies (627) 7 years ago

Looking forward to it. :)

[–] peter_t_2k3 (1050) 7 years ago

Like you I think the ending was better than Clara's but it was also too similar. It worked in a way because it used something from earlier but it also shows a recurring issue I have with Moffat - the fact he can't let go. He always tries to "kill" characters of but never actually goes fully though with it. People say clara is dead but she could travel for 100s if not thousands of years before choosing to die. I don't want the show to turn into game of thrones and just start killing people off for the sake of it but I feel the show at the moment has no consequences.

[–] Martoto (5024) 7 years ago

I kind of got the feeling that Missy knew the master would not allow her to stand with the doctor. She remains true to herself But also with a clean conscience for having wanted to try.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

That could be the case. I have another theory, a fairly far flung one but one which would forgive The Doctor's fairly rude behaviour at one point.

The Doctor knows that The Master will regenerate into Missy at some point in his future and that Missy will go and do the Clara/3W Institute/Confession Dial/Vault/etc. mischief in The Doctor's past. When addressing The Master whilst trying to prevent Missy and The Master from leaving The Doctor speaks directly to The Master, almost ignoring Missy as he does so, and gives him a speech which The Master claims to have heard none of. For Missy this is the second time she's heard that speech, her experiences from then until her present point in time have given her time to reflect on that speech and that reflection is exactly what The Doctor was planning/hoping on achieving thus bringing her to his side and to stand with him.

This doesn't negate Missy's own authority over her decision but rather show The Doctor, the hero of the story, is trying so hard to help her that he will tolerate anything just to bring his old friend back and to work together for friendship through kindness rather than just continue to destroy lives for attention in an unreasonable manner.

Throw into this mix all that touching of hands and semi-telepathy, and other powers, The Doctor occasionally has and it could be an even richer relationship that our mere human minds can muster to try and comprehend.

This has your theory working 100% and still allows for a clearer conscience Missy/Master to exist at some point in the future (For a while at least).

Certainly good writing on Moffat's part for exploring their relationship and given some weight to it beyond pantomime villainy (She's behind you!).

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

And once again, another great speech from The Doctor!

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

[spoiler]speech to The Master and Missy:

"Winning? Is that what you think it's about? I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I wanna beat someone, or 'cause I hate someone, or because I wanna to blame someone. It's not because it's fun. God knows it's not because it's easy. It's not even because it works because it hardly ever does. I do what I do because it's right! Because it's decent! And, above all, it's kind! It's just that. Just kind. If I run away today, good people wll die. If I stand and fight, some of them might live, maybe not many, maybe not for long. Hey, you know, maybe there's no point in any of this at all, but it's the best I can do so I'm gonna do it. And I will stand here doing it until it kills me. (pointing at The Master) You're going to die, too (pointing silently at Missy)... someday. When will that be? Have you thought about that? What would you die for? Who I am, it's where I stand. Where I stand, it's where I fall. (to Missy) Stand with me. These people are terrified. Maybe we could help... a little. Why not? Just till the end. Just be good."[/spoiler]

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Thanks for that MrWitticism, it's good to read it again. I still can't do it justice in my internal Capaldo voice when comparing it to the man himself. Beautiful scene :)

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

You're welcome. While trying to get all of the lines so I could write them down, watching that scene again and again, I thought that if I were in an acting class, that'd be a great scene to use as a character monologue.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

It's certainly a set of lines which takes gravitas to pull off in the way Peter did. I'm not sure if he could have done it as effectively on his first day as The Doctor (I'm sure it would still have been awesome though) and so personal experience with his audience (Where would The Doctor be without his audience 😉 ) helps build that relationship to the degree where it holds more weight.

In an acting class your audience would mostly be other actors and might be belittled for being too good :)

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

He goes from frustrated, to anger, to emotional, to gravely serious. What a wonderful range he has during that speech!

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'd even say there's an appealing playfulness to it to, all very serious but attractive as an option - that's the selling point and whilst I do think Gomez looked like she overcut it in the edit (A tiny bit of continuity is the thread that my mind pulled on to get there from whoever edited it) I think the ambiguity of her character's morality was brought across in that scene regardless.

It really was three great actors in a scene together and nobody, bar the hero (As it has to be at that point) taking too much of the limelight and yet still knocking it out of the park with what they have.

At least we have less than six months to savour this episode before it's bed time for Moffat and he has to peak through the rack in the ajar door to see what's going on in Doctor Who :)

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

At one point it looked like even The Master was affected by his speech. We know Missy was.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'm not sure how this will go but I've a feeling the way that The Doctor looks at Clara back in The Magician's Apprentice will somehow tie into this, that and Missy asking him if he's OK at the end of Empress of Mars. Just a couple of scenes which stand out as being part of another story, but Moffat's done things like this before and dropped it later and so maybe I'm just looking for something that's not there.

The Master certainly made some looks of contemplation during the speech, but he can be a right cruel sod immediately after (Particularly in Missy form) and so I'm not sure he's to be trusted 😄

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

I hope Capaldi gets an Emmy nomination for the episode because of that speech. And I think Moffat deserves one for writing it.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Do we get Emmy's as Brits?

I've no idea, I only watch and leave the back patting up to others.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread,thanks guys.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

What a needlessly nice thing to say apropos of nothing Dazed! 🙂

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

Better than saying needlessly nasty things, which is too often the case on Doctor Who boards

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Exactly MrWitticism, I was bowled over by the sentiment.

[–] mrwitticism (160) 7 years ago

Have you seen the new Doctor has finally been announced??? A WOMAN!!! LET THE HATE BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!

PS: All that speculation about the next Doctor on the other thread - Kris Marshall, etc - TOTALLY WRONG! (just like I said might be the case. No one figured it be Capaldi, or Matt Smith, or David Tennant, either)