THE STAG - The Queen (2006) Discussion

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mhansen2 16 years ago

REF: They need to accomodate themselves to what their people are expecting or they'll be done away with.

ANS: I agree, but, they sure didn't that Sunday morning of Diana's death.

From Tina Brown, “The Diana Chronicles,” pp.469-470.

Every TV set in the country was tuned to the Royal Family's appearance at the 11 A.M. service at Craithie Church, near Balmoral. There was first bafflement, then resentment that the royal response to the death of the most beloved member of their family was, in a word, nothing. The tableau before the cameras as The Firm disembarked en masse for Sunday-morning worship was devoid of any discernible emotion. When you look at the pictures today, with the scared faces of the boys in the back seat of the black Daimler, it is clear they are all numb, frozen in a tragedy so awful that the only thing standing between them and a howl of agony is habitual routine. But that's not how it came across.

The young princes were heartbreaking in their grown-up jackets and black ties, but Charles and Philip were wearing, for God's sake, kilts. Worse, as far as the public was concerned, Craithie Parish Church must have been the only house of .worship in the country where there was no reference to Diana in the morning's prayers. Nor had there been since the day she lost her HRH, an excision, said Diana's friend Oonagh Stanley-Toffolo in 1998, that the Princess minded bitterly. "She thought it was so hurtful to William and Harry." Even more discordantly, the sermon, by visiting preacher Adrian Varwell, a Church of Scotland minister, was about the unsettling experience of moving house, illustrated by jokes drawn from the ribald Scottish comedian Billy Connolly. (The regular minister at Craithie, Robert Sloan, later defended the sermon by saying, "Everybody in the world knew what had happened. Our business was to conduct a normal service of worship"-an explanation about as welcome to the British public, in Billy Connolly parlance, as a fart in a spacesuit.)

Perhaps it was the surreal public avoidance of the family's loss that provoked Prince Harry to ask his father, "Is it true that Mummy is dead?" With so few tangible acknowledgments that Diana was gone, no wonder her younger son had his heart set on going to "bring Mummy home."

I also agree with your ID: "Kate, Dammit Run." Ms. Middleton should run away from the Windsors as fast as she can. Diana should have; but, then we wouldn't have Princes William and Harry.

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[–] missus_curious 14 years ago

She writes that everyone watched the royal family attend church on TV to see their reaction to Diana's death. How would those people feel if someone in their family died and people came around just to gawk at them? I mean maybe the ex- in -laws didn't care about Diana but her sons do.
How would they like some one telling them how they should act if their mother was killed in an accident? They can act anyway they want. They don't have to act the way some stranger would like them to.
And she calls Diana the most beloved member of the royal family. Probably the most beloved by the citizens but obviously not by her ex- in- laws. If the ex-in-laws had cried the people would have just said "what hypocrites they never liked her when she was alive".

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[–] mhansen2 14 years ago

You brought up some good points, but perhaps, there was the emotion of shock displayed by the Royal Family.

Tina Brown:

The tableau before the cameras as The Firm disembarked en masse for Sunday-morning worship was devoid of any discernible emotion. When you look at the pictures today, with the scared faces of the boys in the back seat of the black Daimler, it is clear they are all numb, frozen in a tragedy so awful that the only thing standing between them and a howl of agony is habitual routine.

I've never seen these photos and can only rely on the views of others.

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[–] shaguniitb 10 years ago

The movie explains why the sermon was like that though

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[–] ladyblack888 17 years ago

I always assumed the stag was a symbol to her lack of power in face of tradition.
Keep in mind that a greater part of the movie deals with everybody trying to decide whether or not the Queen should adress the nation regarding Diana. No one ever asked her what she wanted, but what she found proper.
Sure, she's the Queen, she's mesmerized by the stag so she could easily order that no one should hunt it (and for a moment I thought she was going to do that, when someone mentions they're going to hunt it, she falters for a second, but puts back her façade). But if she did that, she'd be considered weak and mocked by her more direct subjects. Hunting that stag is part of the tradition, it's what's proper and there's not a single thing she can do about it.
That's why she tries to scare it away: it's her very pathetic attempt to save it, had it run away from the estate for itself. Her power is only hypothetic because a monarch is not supposed to have any want above anything else.

... And now I'm a bit confused to see all this different theories, because it seemed pretty obvious to me. And to everyone I've discussed it with.

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[–] DiamondLove 17 years ago

The stag represented Diana, IMO.

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[–] ghz123-1 17 years ago

the stag represents the queen , imo , whats interesting is that the owner of the neighboring estate told the queen that they had to follow it for several miles b/4 it died(analogous the to the length the monarchy has been inthe UK). Like the queen she was strong and resiliant , but there are those who are out to kill you (here replace the monarchy) if your not careful.

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[–] Potatoes9000 17 years ago

Folks, a symbol can stand for two things. It is possible.

I feel that the stag, in the first scene with it, wasn't a symbol as much as a plot device. Liz was, as somebody said earlier, able to ponder things for the first time. We've all had moments like this, where we're just having a think, and we're suddenly confronted with something amazing or beautiful. It doesn't matter at that point what it symbolizes, it's just there. And it sets loose whatever is inside that you have been bottling up. This scene serves mostly to have us empathize with the queen more. We've been empathizing, but we've had to try, and now we get to see her act significantly more human.

Later, when the stag dies, yes, it becomes a symbol. But not for Diana or The Queen, but both. She sees how all three of them were noble, but vulnerable and hunted, and in the end 2/3 of them were killed. Liz the 2 isn't likely to die via paparazzi, but her life is still under scrutiny, and one does as best as one can, and she will be dead one day, even if she isn't killed.

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[–] monroe83 16 years ago

If we’re going to argue for what the stag symbolizes, shouldn’t we first wonder what it symbolizes for the queen in that scene rather than for ourselves as viewers? Assuming the queen sees the stag as meaning something seems like a good assumption, since the moment she first sees the stag causes the end of her tears and an awestruck exclamation of its sheer beauty. I think she was crying for the whole situation, Diana’s death, for her grandchildren’s grief/her own bewilderment and frustration, before the stag appears as she is waiting for a ride home.
When she sees the stag watching her cry, it is like England is seeing her pain, the pain they need to see so they can heal as well. The stag represents how she needs to show her grief to the country. When it is killed, with its head cut off, I think she might think of the body politic, the monarch as the head of state. Think of Charles I whose head was cut off when the public went against him. She had waited too long to show her grief, and the stag shows the possible death that could occur for herself both as a human (her own mortality is clearly something she must consider as an older woman) and as a strong monarch. Obviously she would never be executed like past monarchs but she is causing her own figurative death as she fails to show her true self to the public.
For people that link Diana to the stag because of Diana the huntress from Roman mythology: Diana is not the hunted! She is the one, in the famous story, who changes a young man into a stag for walking into her private bath. Diana, the mythical figure, is vicious and vindictive. If anything, the queen most likely reads Diana as that huntress whom so many people read as the victim rather than the victimizer. Indeed, Diana the princess is as much a mythology as Diana the huntress. The queen felt as victimized by Diana as Diana felt by the queen. I think she sees herself as the stag, which is simultaneously the head of state, which is all the while connected to the nation. That’s the very point of it: the queen always sees herself as England. When she hurts England, she is hurting herself.

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[–] whitespirit26 14 years ago

Monroe, I think you're going waaay too far by comparing Diana to the vicious huntress as well; I doubt the queen thought anywhere near that far. And this remark "Diana the princess is as much a mythology as Diana the huntress" is ridiculously inaccurate to me; Diana's private life was different from her public one, but that doesn't mean her charity works and love were fake. I do agree with the rest of your post though and think it's wonderfully well-said, and no longer think the stag represented either Diana or the queen explicitly; such dramatic anology is too extreme for the film. It did, however, have a strong resemblance to them as hunted beings.

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[–] siiri-rebane 8 years ago

For people that link Diana to the stag because of Diana the huntress from Roman mythology: Diana is not the hunted! She is the one, in the famous story, who changes a young man into a stag for walking into her private bath.

monroe83, darling, you are the only one this far who almost spotted the obvious. i really feel i almost love you for that. no one got that, not even writer - who maybe knows what he really wrote (but denies it, because why not; he wrote the script, let others interpret it), but maybe not.

for me kinda obv. from first sighting of the movie was, that the stag is there for diana's boyfriend. dodi whatsisname. (after all, it's stag, not doe. so it's not diana nor queen. do they btw hunt does at all?)

and (this is now interpretation after learning about conspiracies) the queen's reaction to his (stag's) appearance and later death was to say in filming language: "i did not want him (dodi) die (or them), i did not know about or order assassination, if in my power i'd've rather spare his life (and her), but i accept post factum that his death was kinda... well, maybe inev., maybe not, but in some sense... for good?)"

and here is very enlightening point, inspired by monroe83 - _diana_ caused him been hunted. almost as goddess Diana/Artenis did to that young man. (Acteon?) no one would've cared a straw (at least not to that extent) about dodi sole, he was hunted by paparazzi _because_ of diana, as she was the one they were after. (not that it (dodi's death) is her fault, of course, reason or cause is not to be mixed with fault or guilt.)

this is my real interpretation, rejecting conspiracys. strongly believe in 'cock-up before conspiracy' a.k.a. Hanlon's razor. but in the movie it might be really as above, as nod to conspiracy-believers.

birgitta

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[–] rrb 16 years ago

Don't you mean "hart"?

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[–] jdgirl22 16 years ago

In the DVD audio commentary with Peter Morgan and Stephen Frears, Morgan says that the stag was meant to represent something that had survived, that had lived beyond its expected lifetime. Early in the film when the royal family is watching TV, Phillip notes that the stag he saw that day had 14 pts and the Queen Mother is pleasantly surprised, noting it had been years since the estate had seen a stag that big, meaning it is unusual for a stag to survive that long. I think the stag and the Queen share a bond in that they both have survived. The Queen had survived with her traditional, even old-fashioned moral guidelines and standards, and I think she feels somewhat overmatched with Tony Blair's "modern" goals and ideals. So in the scene where the Queen gets a good look at the stag she feels somewhat of a connection between her and the stag: they have both managed to survive. This is just my interpretation, and other people have some other very good ones.

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[–] RussellDunn 16 years ago

The death of the stag is symbolic in that it showed The Queen how much royalty in the UK has declined since the middle ages in terms of wealth and influence. I say this because it was killed in an estate next to Balmoral where the hereditary owner rented it out for vacationing stock brokers who are rich on order to pay the bills and hold onto the family estate. It wasn't a prince, viscount, earle or baron that killed the stag but a new moneyed individual on a deer hunting vacation. The Queen saw this for herself and realized that unless she bows to public opinion(or in this case grief) her family would suffer the same fate: Having to sell themselves and cater to those who possessed the money but had no hereditary title.

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[–] Bruce7 13 years ago

Good interpretation.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious,and don't call me Shirley

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[–] mvfever 16 years ago

The stag of course symbolized the Monarch. The Queen never cried for Diana( which is understandable to me), she was crying for her own struggle, and she was almost 'forced'(humiliated as she said ) into giving tributes to Diana publically (the stag beheaded ).

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[–] mhansen2 16 years ago

REF: she was crying for her own struggle . . .

ANS: Her grandsons had just lost their mother and the Queen is crying "for her own struggle?" Sounds a bit selfish, doesn't it?

REF: . . . and she was almost 'forced'(humiliated as she said ) into giving tributes to Diana publically . . .

ANS: Yes, pity the Queen to offer tributes to the person who gave her grand children. You seem to paint the Queen in dark colors, perhaps, darker than she deserves.

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[–] JoanHolloway1979 16 years ago

The stag of course symbolized the Monarch. The Queen never cried for Diana( which is understandable to me), she was crying for her own struggle, and she was almost 'forced'(humiliated as she said ) into giving tributes to Diana publically (the stag beheaded ).

I dont think anyone could make the Queen do something she didnt want to.

Although she has lived a life of "duty", had Diana still been a Royal Family member she perhaps would have been bound to pay a public tribute, but given that Diana was not a member of the Royal Family, the Queen would have done it becuase she wanted to

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[–] mhansen2 16 years ago

REF: ...but given that Diana was not a member of the Royal Family...

ANS: Even though Diana's HRH was confiscated and she was divorced from the Prince of Wales, she was still mother to a future king. Technically, wasn't she still a member of the Royal Family?

I've heard differing opinions on this.

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[–] JoanHolloway1979 16 years ago

In my opinion (and its my opinion only) she was not.

Sure she was the future Kings mother, but she had no HRH status

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[–] David_Blue 15 years ago

The stag brought something beautiful and healing into the queen's life when she badly needed it. When it was killed, she had to go see it.

It turned out it had been killed ineptly and thus cruelly. But socially she had to convey her congratulations to the killer anyway, even though that was the opposite of what she felt.

That steadied her. Then she did what she had to do socially about Dianna, saying a lot of things that were again the opposite of what she really felt. That ended the crisis.

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[–] PopcornIsGreat 16 years ago

Frears was asked if the stag in the movie was a symbol for the Royal Family? Frears responded, "The truth is that in Scotland they cull the deer, they keep the numbers down, because otherwise they destroy the vegetation. The deer they try to kill are the old ones. If you have 14 [points], that means that it's very old. That means it should have been killed. That means it's sort of passed the date that it should have expired, which I guess is a metaphor for …." His trailing silence prompted laughter.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Roheryn2003 16 years ago

I believe the stag is an analogy to Diana the Hunted (as alluded to by her brother). (And by the way stags are not "bred" on the estate. They occur perfectly naturally).It was hunted , as Diana herself was hunted but when it strayed off the estate, as Diana did in her private life after her divorce, it was shot by a "commercial gentleman" - meaning the Fayeds (who own Harrods department store), who, while not directly responsible for her death, were nevertheless negligent of her safety (lack of seatballs, drunken chauffeur)Diana would have been safer if she had stayed on her own territory - after all the stag had reached a good age without yet having been shot.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] mhansen2 16 years ago

Your post was very moving. This may a bit off-topic, but, why do you feel the Queen and Prince Philip don't have a happy marriage?

I heard about a rumored affair of his in the 1960s (I think) but that is old news.

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