MovieChat Forums > Odd Girl Out (2005) Discussion > Just really angry!!

Just really angry!!

posted 15 years ago by KellyeB123
42 replies | jump to latest

I get entirely angry at bullying, and I have NO tolerance for it whatsoever and nobody else ever should. Pardon my French, but it honest to God pisses me hell off when people intentionally try to hurt others just to get pleasure. People love to entertain themselves at another person's expense. I find that highly selfish.

Vanessa Snyder seriously did NOT have to take as much bullcrap as she did in that movie. She seriously should have blocked the screennames that sent her those god-awful, hateful and nasty messages. And why did she keep going back to Stacey? My God, Stacey practically backstabbed Vanessa right in front of her face, let alone the mean things she said about her behind her back. Stacey is a dirty, relentless, lying, evil, little you-know-the-word. She wasn't just faking, she truly WANTED to hurt Vanessa every chance she got. If she was going to be pissed off at Vanessa, she NEVER should have acted fake. She never should have faked being Vanessa's friends while being behind all the mean things that were done to her. If Stacey were a true friend, she and Vanessa would have talked and worked things out.

That adoringly sweet guy named Tony liked Vanessa, instead of Stacey. I know Tony not liking Stacey must have really hurt Stacey and broke her heart a little bit, but you can't force somebody to like you. But I also knew that it must have hurt more when the guy you had a crush on liked your best friend instead. Stacey should have just gotten over it and moved on; there are plenty of fish out there in the sea. Even after the situation with Tony, the girls took their bullyiing to Vanessa WAY too far and it became even MORE serious. Heck, it wasn't even about that boy anymore. It was nothing more than just true jealousy.

But you want to know who I really couldn't stand during this whole movie? Vanessa Snyder's mom. She kept pushing Vanessa's relationship with Stacey even after Stacey kept hurting her. Why?? She said it was so that Vanessa would be popular and never get bullied!! It was quite obvious that as a child, Barbara had very low self-esteem too and never learned to stand up for herself. If I were that girl's mother, I wouldn't allow her to go anywhere near Stacey and her crew. Anybody would be absolutely forbidden to go near my child if they were completely harassing her at such a dangerous point. Why the heck did Vanessa not want her mom to get involved? The problem sure wouldn't go anywhere and would ultimately get much worse. I'd damn sure have my parent get involved. If I were her mom, I'd print out all those instant messages in a heartbeat and send them not only to the principal, but to the school board and police. Then those girls would probably have gotten arrested and have their asses taken to court. That would have totally scared those bitches straight. Please forgive me for using those words.

You'd think things would get better in the end, but it only just got more annoying. Stacey was not Vanessa's freaking friend at all. Stacey told Vanessa that she couldn't have someone be mad at her at her party. So then you go and set Vanessa up like that?? Man, I'd swear I would never have let Vanessa go to that party. I would NEVER have risked my daughter getting hurt again. Are you kidding me?? Vanessa's mom said it herself when she told Denise that Stacey and Nikki were bullying Vanessa. What on earth did she mean she didn't want to bother Denise with that?? Also, that stupid principal really got on my nerves. Bullying is a type of harassment, whether or not there be physical violence, and in most cases, it is taken very seriously.

Now, if those girls were at my high school, they would never have been allowed to do that crap. At my school, bullying is taken real seriously. It might even go on your criminal record. And I'm quite sure Stacey and Nikki would have gotten their asses kicked. They would NEVER be able to run my school like they did theirs. I didn't like how Vanessa never stood up for herself except in the end. I guess it was because she was never ever ready for that type of bullying; she was completely unprepared for it, and didn't know what to do when it happened. I'd completely ignore Nikki and Tiffany as soon as I came back to school rather than tell them Hi like Vanessa did. Vanessa really has very low self-esteem. Even after the girl almost killed herself, those kids were still were at it with her! Some stupid, immature, awful son of a bitch filmed Vanessa being dragged out of her house on a gurney. And those kids at school teased her about it and made jokes. They were still at it with her. God, those awful teenagers were nothing but evil, cruel and relentless!! The truth about youth is NOT cute, and don't ever make it sound that way.

For those of you who think the movie was over exaggerating and unrealistic, you are COMPLETELY wrong. This movie was very much realistic. Take it from someone who had to deal with it first hand, and I'm sure there are a lot of other people who have been bulled at school, too. Everybody has been bullied at least some time in their lives. People CAN be THAT mean. And why in God's name would Vanessa call Stacey her best friend, even after all the crap that Stacey had done to her? All of this crap did NOT even have to be if Vanessa completely avoided those girls when they were harassing her the first time, and she seriously could have blocked those instant messages and all the other mean crap.

I don't mean to make it look like I'm yelling, but I'm being honest. I am NOT going to hide the truth. I tell things like they are, whether anyone likes it or not.

[–] Camden003 15 years ago

That is exactly how I felt when I watched the movie...I felt very enraged, especially since I was the victim of bullying in middle school and part of high school. Bullying has become worse in the past 13 years since I was in middle school. I am 26 now and all grown up but I still have residual emotional scars from being bullied in middle and high school.

Those losers who bully others probably have self esteem issues and putting others down due to their own flaws makes them feel better about themselves. If I ever personally see anyone being bullied first hand I will be sure to punch the bully in the face and give him/her a piece of my mind. The world would be a lot better off without these sociopaths who make other lives miserable!

[–] KellyeB123 15 years ago

I really appreciate you and your complete understanding. I've been bullied pratically all my life, mainly during middle school which was pretty much the peak of how bad it really was. I even got bullied in high school, through all my four years. The thing was, I always tried to be a sweetheart, who was quiet and kept to myself, and I guess that's what made me the target. I thought not doing anything to hurt anybody would keep you from getting bullied, but I sure as hell was wrong about that. People do target the quiet ones after all. The thing that made people bully me was that I didn't do a thing about it, mainly because I couldn't fight back or stand up for myself, because then I'd get in big trouble. I guess I was kind of a pushover as you might say. I'd get picked on by all kinds of people. It was mainly people's words that hurt me as if they knew exactly what to say to make me upset, and I am a very emotionally sensitive person. People would even treat me like I was such a horrible person based on how others treated me when I wasn't even near that bad. I was never evil, I tried to be sweet. I always tried to be sweet and give everybody a chance and treat everyone as though they were all equal. But I now know that NOT everyone deserves that. I also then realized that the world is just FULL of MEAN people, and sadly there is just nothing we can do to get rid of them. People COMPLETELY made me feel very unworthy and unloved, especially compared to those who were popular and had nothing wrong with their lives it seemed. It seriously made me question God. Are there really abandoned and rejected children by him? Because there were plenty of people who would get hurt just like me.

And as I say this to everybody: Even if I did bring it upon myself to get bullied, I never did it on purpose. Heck, I didn't even realize I was doing it. Everybody makes god-awful mistakes. This may sound too much like a personal opinion, but most kids, especially teenagers are completely stupid and immature. They only follow the crowd and go for what's popular rather than seeing things for themselves. I've only just graduated high school, and aren't I glad to be out of that hell hole. But looking back now, I realized that all the crap I went through didn't even have to be. I even got bullied by people I thought were my friends. And like Vanessa, I chose the wrong friends, people who were fake and just started drama or just those who had insecure lives like me and didn't know how to handle their problems properly and just took them out on others. That's why right now, I'm incredibly picky about the friends I choose and hang out with and who I meet anywhere.

I bet you were a complete sweetheart, who didn't do anything to get hurt like you did and I still have emotional scars too from when people hurt me really bad. I know it might be hard, even for me, but you got to learn to put the past behind you. For all you know, while you're out there having a wonderful life, those that picked on you might have miserable ones. They damn sure deserve that. I'm pretty sure you stood up for yourself and defended your rights against those mean kids. I would have said something nastier and more meaninful, but this is a message board after all. Only you know yourself. Never let anybody else other than you characterize who you really are. You're a great person Camden003, I'll bet.

He's there, sneaking up on me.

[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

Kelly, your views on Vanessa's mom and whether Vanessa brought it on herself or not are just your views, not facts. Chill.

[–] KellyeB123 15 years ago

I never really said Vanessa brought it upon herself. I never blamed the entire thing on her. Besides, why is that little bit of the entire post I wrote so important to you? And I just really hated how the mom acted in the situation sometimes, not telling her daughter to stay away from Stacey and her friends when Vanessa kept wanting to go back to Stacey even after Stacey just kept hurting her. That's really not my view, it kind of is a fact. I was stating the obvious.

[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

Because that one part was very inaccurate to me. The mom went by what Vanessa said, trusting her judgement, and was plenty protective when she discovered the truth.

[–] KellyeB123 15 years ago

Okay?? And?? It was just a small part out of the entire post I wrote. The thing is, even after Vanessa's mom Barbara took action, even when she went to Principal Jessup and printed out those hateful, nasty messages and showed them to Jessup, when Stacey invited Vanessa to some graduation party towards the end, Barbara didn't stop Vanessa from going to that party. She knew what would probably happen, that Vanessa would have gotten picked on again, and she even said she didn't want Vanessa to get hurt. If my kids were getting picked on, and if I knew about it, I'd take action regardless of their 'judgement.' I don't care how they would want me or them to handle the situation; I'd get to the bottom of it, and I would try and stop it.

[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

Incredibly annoying?? That's rather funny, coming from you; so much for your own idea that starting small arguments over nothing is a bad idea.

"You sometimes annoy people and bug the crap out of them, bringing out the worst in them maybe"

Really? And just how long have you been following my posts? Yes, I do get annoyed by dopey people (the people making fun of Vanessa were thoughtless and the person telling someone else to "make" their daughter talk to them was acting like a very BAD counselor) and I do annoy them in turn when pointing out their thoughtlessness sometimes. You make a long rant on this board, claim it's the truth and you love telling the truth whether other people like it or not? Quite a loaded post. Well, guess what: I tell the truth too, whether people like it or not. Most people, however, don't annoy me unless they say something very stupid or mean and I generally get along just dandy with other people. I disagreed strongly with your words, and you're now taking it so personally that you're insulting my entire way of speaking to others, not to mention making humongous presumptions about my motives and how every person I speak to reacts. I've looked over my posts, and a total of three of my recent ones have an exasperated tone, which I think is justified. From those three posts, you think you're qualified to tell me what my general relationship with people is like? Where do you get off doing that?

As for the film, what was Vanessa's mom supposed to do, chain her to the stairs? Nessa said she was going with Stacy, her mom said not to, Nessa said she couldn't hurt her anymore. And she was right: she later snapped in anger and told off the bullies once and for all. It was a long time in coming and had to happen.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

"I'm sure people didn't mean to annoy you"

Actually, adults should know better than to say offensive things and some say them quite deliberately. If someone makes a bullying thing small, I think I have reason to be harsh with them. That makes perfect sense to me, and plenty others. It's RUDE when they call a bullied girl a big baby or suggest that a scared little boy has no balls and is therefore useless as a male, like some have on Orphan; THAT is cruel and gets rudeness from me in turn. It angers me when people don't THINK.

You said this in your bio: "It's like going up to a random person, a stranger whom you don't even know at all, and hitting them in the face unprovoked when they didn't do a thing to you"

Depends on what they say. If I heard a stranger call women *beep* or say something hateful about blacks, if I had the guts, I WOULD smack them, whether they "meant to offend" or not.

"just how is making your own child talk to you bad?"

Because forced confidence is not confidence at all.

"I seriously thought you were some nice person"

Thank you. I do have a hard time understanding you, though; you seem mad one minute and like you're trying the smooth things out the next. That doesn't make sense to me. Some of the things on your biography make it sound like you try almost too hard to be aggressive and scare mean people away, like you've never recovered from the bullying and are still on the defensive. The idea that you only give love to people who are nice to you isn't really Christ-like. I'm no angel either to people I think are mean, but I certainly don't care to be their worst enemy or make their lives miserable. Deliberately refraining from forgiving someone doesn't hurt them, just you.

"I don't mean to make humonguous presumptions about you or tell how you are in your relationship with others, I'm just telling you how I feel"

That's fine. I hope you realize your personal comments about me were in fact opinions. I never even intended to argue with you, I just thought you words were exaggerated.

"Yes, let's not keep arguing over things that are small"

Okay. And nope, not following you; I don't even remember you on Orphan. For the record, I liked most of your post.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] whitespirit26 15 years ago

"There are just some people who state opinions but don't mean to offend others or piss them off, though"

I know, it's just that the thoughtless ones usually don't care. Thank you for the apology, I appreciate it. And I didn't intend to misrepresent you either.

When you said you could become someone's worst nightmare, it just seemed like you meant you'd take a lot of time and energy to make someone else unhappy. I'm glad you're not like that, I just hope you're not holding on to a lot of anger.

"You got to understand there are just some evil people out there who refuse to change"

Oh yes, and I don't think I could ever forgive child-abusers or what have you. In general, though, it's better to try and forgive for your own sake, I think. It's usually freeing. Christians try to focus more on loving the hard-to-love than waiting to be loved by them. If you're not a Christian though, I guess I don't need to explain.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] KellyeB123 12 years ago

“When you said you could become someone's worst nightmare, it just seemed like you meant you'd take a lot of time and energy to make someone else unhappy.”

As I’ve stated before, I do not waste time making miserable my enemies’ lives. I choose my battles and know that some things are not worth fighting about.

Whenever a person abused me, I would ignore that person and let the situation go. However, I didn’t realize that by doing so, I was unintentionally building and repressing anger inside of me; a lot of anger built up that I unleashed it an became an angry, aggressive person. I am no longer like that. Whenever people abused me, ignoring and staying silent against them would allow them to continue to abuse me either to get a reaction out of me or subconsciously think they could get away with abusing me knowing I wouldn’t respond. I then realized and decided that I needed to stand up for myself and let my abusers know that their abuse would not be tolerated.

“I just hope you're not holding on to a lot of anger.”

Sometimes, memories of my abusive past appear in my mind and it causes me to be angry. However, I never take out my anger and abusive past on others nor let it effect my personality in the future. To be honest, I feel that the situation doesn’t involve me not letting my past go, but rather my past refusing to let me go. Sometimes, certain things, big or small, may trigger memories of my abusive past. In order to alleviate my anger from my past, I write out the things that make me upset in a notebook/journal/diary/blog. Doing so will have all my thoughts together, lied out and organized; I find it an excellent tool.

“Christians try to focus more on loving the hard-to-love than waiting to be loved by them.”

I do not give respect to people who do not deserve it. Repeatedly doing so will not change a thing, for the abusive people will continue to be disrespectful knowing that they will always be respected and get away with their abusive behavior. Regardless of what Christians believe, trying to win my enemies over with love and killing them with kindness only resulted in me being hurt and becoming angry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88X0qYGrNAo

[–] TheLovelyChristy 13 years ago

Remember, Kellye_Marie, if you find a user's behavior to be abusive or just flat-out annoying, you can always place them on your ignore list.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] TheLovelyChristy 13 years ago

But, you truly were aggravating her. It's okay to reply to someone if you find their particular post on a particular movie, TV show or whatever, but to actually click on somebody's IMDb profile and repeatedly reply to each of their individual posts can be considered very annoying, and you are repeatedly continuing to do so and a response to that would be being ignored. You aggravated the *beep* out of Kellye, and just had no idea. But, I suppose for the sake of ease, she could have directly called you on your behavior politely.

[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

Christy, when she and I first had this argument, I only saw her at one other place and that was the Orphan board, when SHE showed up, not where I followed her; her implication that I've been following her because I replied to her comments on "Orphan" is ridiculous and rather self-absorbed. I only recently visited her comments on "The Crucible", and ONLY on "The Crucible", and she'd already put me on Ignore. So she accused me of following her when I replied to her on "Orphan", where I already hang out, got pissed at me here, then acted like she wanted to stop fighting, and put me on Ignore. Based on her actions here, her snappish warning words on her profile and her aggression on the Crucible board, I do indeed find her hyperly aggressive. I don't know why people seem eager to appease her; one of the guys she jumped on in that other board took full blame for the misunderstanding and said, "Maybe I should be more careful how I write things" or something similar, to which she rather snidely replied, "Perhaps you should". He never said anything ugly to begin with.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

I'm sorry for any time I misunderstood your words, Kellye Marie, and I appreciate your returning to discuss things. I actually understand a lot about having mood issues; I have OCD and sometimes high anxiety, which can make me sound more aggressive even than I intend to sound. I mentioned that you showed up on the Orphan board because I didn't follow you there, and it was the only other place we'd spoken. I had my own share of bullies in school, and sometimes not speaking up would cause me to have repressed aggression later on, but you clearly had a particularly rough time. Trolls are annoying too; I don't know why people would jump to rudeness with you, but some are like that. As it happens, I try to be more patient; in general, I prefer to make peace, and staying in anger just exhausts me.

"Also, I've already apologized to you for my earlier outburst"

And I appreciate that. But then when Christy said you could use the Ignore feature, and you said you already had, I thought you might mean you'd put me on Ignore, so I sent you a private message and checked my outbox to see if the message showed up; it didn't. If you send a PM to someone, and can't find it in your Outbox, it means they're ignoring you and never received it. So assuming that you must have put me on Ignore, it seemed like you'd decided to snub me even after we'd made peace.

"You may have had opposite opinions of mine on the MKL message boards, but I respected some of your opinions and even agreed with some of the things you had to say."

I appreciate that a lot. Thank you for your nice words here.

As far as MKL, I see so many people now dismissing things that are wrong; some have even expressed pity for pedophiles, and I find that too disgusting to fathom. When I went to the MKL board and saw some people (besides you) acting like it was all just looove and not that bad just because she was a woman, I lost patience quickly, and may have already been aggravated when I came across your post. I agree she wasn't like a regular child predator, but to sleep with an elementary school child, then try to abandon her own children for him..*shudder* Disturbing topic for another board.

[–] KellyeB123 13 years ago

I am replying again to a reply belonging to you, because I wanted to use a better method of sentencing and words.

Please, allow me to further clarify things.

"when SHE showed up, not where I followed her".

I didn't accuse you of following me because of my post and your reply to my post on the message board of the movie, Orphan; I accused you of following me because of your repeated replies to posts I made on the message boards of the movies Odd Girl Out, All American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau Story and The Crucible. I felt as if you visited my profile and replied to each of my posts. Even though you are free to express your thoughts about any subject wherever and however much you please on the IMDb message boards, I couldn't help but feel that you were being a little invasive when visiting my profile and annoying with repeated replies to my posts. I became angry at you because of your reply to my post on the message board of the movie, Odd Girl Out, and I had the last straw with your reply to a post I made on the message boards about Mary Kay Letourneau and the movie she was portrayed in. I sincerely apologize for accusing you of following me, because I agree that it sounded self-absorbed, and I apologize for my unnecessary expression of anger.

Allow me to explain why I became angry with you. I placed a post on the message board of the movie, Orphan, that contained my review and opinion of it; in the post, I remember saying that the movie would have been more enjoyable if previous editions and drafts had actually been used. You replied to my post saying, "The drafts WERE used.". Please forgive me for sounding oversensitive, but in your reply, you sounded a little rude and snide. I felt as if you were saying "The drafts WERE used in the movie. Duh!" as if I were an idiot. Next, you replied to a post I created on the message board of the movie, Odd Girl Out, which is a movie about bullying. Forgive me for sounding a bit oversensitive, but in your reply, you told me to "chill", which I found to be a bit disrespectful. You replied saying that my views of the protagonist, Vanessa, and her mother, Barbara, were my views, and the things I was saying about them were inaccurate to you. When you said my views were inaccurate, I felt as if you were contradicting my entire post and making me look like an idiot. Also, I did not wish to engage in any discussion about the way the mother and daughter handled the conflict and situation of bullying, because it was completely irrelevant to me and very off-topic from the main argument in my entire post, which was about bullying in general. Sometimes, when people bring about things that are irrelevant and off-topic, it causes the main argument to be lost, which can be considered very aggravating. Because of your reply about the mother and daughter, I became angry at you. Again, I acknowledge that I overreacted in my reply to you and apologize for doing so. Finally, on your reply to a post I made to a movie that depicted Mary Kay Letourneau, I found that you were being disrespectful. It was very disrespectful when you called an IMDb user who replied to my post a "stupid harpy". I also found it very self-righteous when you wrote "What the devil do I care?" in your replies to the said post; your opinions are not the only ones that matter. I thought of you as a polite, intelligent, sensitive, understanding and sensible person and would never expect a reply as the ones I pointed out from you.

I understand that you did not intend to upset me, and as angry as I was at you, I know I should have assessed the situation before jumping to action and called you on your behavior firmly but politely. In general, although it was not intentional, the way you present your replies to my posts came across as rude, disrespectful and abrasive.

"Based on her actions here, her snappish warning words on her profile and her aggression on the Crucible board, I do indeed find her hyperly aggressive."

My "snappish warning words" were placed on my profile, because in the past, other IMDb users were unnecessarily rude to me in their replies to postings I made that were simple and non-rude. I've also encountered trolls.

"one of the guys she jumped on in that other board took full blame for the misunderstanding and said, "Maybe I should be more careful how I write things" or something similar, to which she rather snidely replied, "Perhaps you should". He never said anything ugly to begin with."

I created a post on the message board of the movie, The Crucible. Another user replied to that post saying many things about black magic and how witches can recite the Lord's Prayer. I do not believe nor do I find any relevance in witchcraft, curses, spells, black magic, voodoo, etc. I told the other user that in a straightforward and polite way. I took partial blame for the misunderstanding, because after I looked at my original post, I forgot that I had inquired about how three people accused of witchcraft were able to recite the Lord's Prayer as they were being hung; in that society, it was believed that "witches" couldn't "bear to hear the Lord's name."

If I come across as "hyperly aggressive", it is because I have issues with my mood. There are times that I may become upset at things that are not worth becoming upset about and angry at people who did not mean any harm to me. I am being mature in admitting my flaws. I am in the process of receiving help I need to address my problem and on the road to recovery.

The result of my unnecessary anger is a result of the unnecessary abuse, hate and bullying I received in school. I have many things to say about my personal experiences with bullying, but I will speak about it in another place at another time.

Once again, I apologize to you for my unnecessary expression of anger toward you and misunderstandings of your words. I have fully clarified and corrected all misunderstanding between you and me. Have a wonderful day, and take care.

[–] TheLovelyChristy 13 years ago

It's funny how after you make amends with someone and they make peace with you in return, you don't even bother to give them the time of day. Some "polite, intelligent, sensitive, understanding and sensible" person you are, right? What a complete joke.

[–] KellyeB123 13 years ago

Christy, I'm pretty sure you have better things to do in your life than trolling and making a huge fuss out of an argument between me and another person that was completely resolved nearly four months ago. Please, just let it go.

[–] TheLovelyChristy 12 years ago

I didn't realize you gave me this reply nearly three months ago until now. My inbox gets flooded, so it was easy to miss this. I, in fact, DO have a life, and no, I am not a troll. I just say what I feel regardless of how long ago the discussion was; it is practically the equivalent to replying to a significant post you find on a particular message board and then replying to it, even if it was made a couple months or years ago. You and whitespirit26 are allowed to express your feelings and opinions; I'm allowed to express mine, as well. :)

[–] TheLovelyChristy 12 years ago

You can't necessarily gripe at somebody for being "hyperly aggressive" and tell them to "chill" when your replies on the Mary Kay Letourneau message boards came across as pretty aggressive and angry. You are very hypocritical. And then, when Kellye stated that she agreed with what you had to say, you turned oh-so polite. You jumped from one emotion to another, which is very weird. "I appreciate that a lot. Thank you for your nice words here." You didn't like Kellye's opposite opinion, but then chastised her for getting upset when you "disagreed strongly" with her words. If you're allowed to be rageful about Mary Kay Letourneau, Kellye is allowed to be rageful about the things that make her upset. Don't tell her to "chill" when you're doing the same damn thing as she and should be told to "chill", as well.

[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

Wow, you love beating a dead horse, don't you?

"And then, when Kellye stated that she agreed with what you had to say, you turned oh-so polite"

You mean the way you did when responding to Kelly after she asked you to back off? The smiley-face suddenly? Kelly and I had both had our hackles up, so when she wrote politely to me, was a relief and of course very nice, and confirmed that I'd misunderstood her actions when I got mad, so of course I was friendly; what did you expect? On the Mary-Kay board, I saw idiots who felt sorry for a child seducer; that's something MOST feel pretty strongly about.

[–] TheLovelyChristy 12 years ago

Let me inform you that Kellye and I are best friends who have known each other for many years, and I will speak on her behalf. While she and you were fighting, she told me that the reason why she "got pissed" at you was because not only did she not give a *beep* about what you were discussing in your first reply, but that even though your initial reply to her was polite, she felt that you were being polite to her in a way that was completely patronizing. She felt that you were talking down to her like she was some little kid and felt that you were making her look like an idiot. She says that she has no problem with people disagreeing with her just as long as they present their views in a respectful manner, but you were presenting your views in a way that was patronizing and condescending. She told me that she called you a "smart-ass" in an old reply, because you were saying obvious things to her that she already knew, but you were saying them as if she didn't know them and as if she were an idiot; "Kelly, your views are just your views, not facts. Chill.". You aggravated the *beep* out of her. She also found it disrespectful when you told her to "Chill". You should never patronize someone by telling them to "chill" or "calm down", because Kellye had every right to express her strong feelings about strong subjects; bullying is NOT a petty thing, at all, and you should know that. Looking back at her first post, she admits that she unintentionally said some things that were out of line (She never intended to blame the girl for being bullied, but I thought she had a very good point when she pointed out the way the girl's mom handled it.), but when you "disagreed strongly" with her words, she felt that you took the things she said too seriously and in the wrong way.

Now, about the "forced confidence" thing, she said you took that the wrong way, too. A parent making their kid talk to them? Kellye never suggested that a parent "force confidence" on their kid and never suggested parents keep tabs on their kids 24/7 as you probably thought she did, but she did point out that in the movie where the girl was being bullied, the girl pushing her mom away and refusing to tell her what was happening led the girl to attempt suicide! What more do you need for crap sake? Your "forced confidence" argument IS irrelevant.

Your reply to Kellye on her Mary Kay Letourneau post was very disrespectful and self-righteous indeed and that was the last straw for her; she didn't want to engage in another fight with you, because Kellye does not like to get upset and she does not like fighting as much as the next person doesn't like it, so she simply placed you on her Ignore list; Kellye will oftentimes try to stop a bad situation before it escalates. "Sorry, listening to people defend a woman who slept with a 13-year-old is not something I plan to be tolerable about." As I've said before, people have opposite opinions about things. By saying you are not going to "tolerate" somebody's opinion, to freaking sit there and say that a person is not allowed to give his/her opinion just because you don't agree with it is just flat-out unacceptable. It was also very selfish when you admired Kellye for agreeing with you and liking your personal opinions, but I don't think she agreed with everything you said. Didn't Kellye admit that Mary Kay Letourneau deserved to be punished for her crime? But, Kellye also stated that Mary Kay was a mental case due to the fact that she was bipolar and was not some serial predator searching for kids to molest. Mary Kay was mentally and emotionally unstable and was not in her right frame of mind at the time she was having sex with a 13-year-old. We're not trying to downplay, sugarcoat or excuse what the woman did, but have some sensitivity! Kellye also got pissed that you placed words into her mouth and accused her of saying things she did not say. "You would seriously rather LaFave get LESS of a sentence just so she could be equal with a man?" She never said Debra LaFave deserved less time for her offense, but an EQUAL number to that of the guy who got less time for having sex with two underage girls while Debra LaFave got more time for having sex with one boy. I believe she clearly laid that out: Debra LaFave got 30 years for having sex with one boy, where as the man Kellye was talking about got 30 years, 15 years for each of the two girls. If Debra LaFave gets 30 years for having sex with one underage boy, the other man should get 60 years for having sex with two underage girls or Debra Lafave could have gotten 15 years. Do the damn math.

Whenever you disagree with somebody's opinions even though that person has a right to have their opinion, you always have to make your opinions sound like they are the correct ones by trying to make that other person look dumb. That is what a self-righteous person does. You are always so sure of the moral superiority of your own opinions. You also often talk down to people like you're some damn therapist or everybody's parent. You make yourself look like some saint while pointing out people's flaws and "inaccurate" comments and making them look like the bad guys.

Kellye also got pissed off that you were "moralizing" to her. "Deliberately refraining from forgiving someone doesn't hurt them, just you." It's not in your goddamn place to judge Kellye for the things she does and dictate how she should interact with others nor her response to certain situations.

Some of the crap you said to Kellye in your other posts were just straight-up out of line, as well. "The idea that you only give love to people who are nice to you isn't really Christ-like." Get your head out of your ass. Kellye never said she was a Christian, she is an Atheist. I have no religious label on me, but I don't worship God or Christ, either. How the hell can you expect someone to "give love" to people who disrespect them? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that and the "Christians try to focus on loving the hard-to-love" bullcrap if you had actually seen just how extremely ugly people have treated Kellye. Kellye also admits that perhaps she should have worded in her previous bio that she should have replaced "love" with "respect", that she only gives respect to people who are respectful to her and that she completely ignores people who are mean and hateful. How does that not sound logical? You made "humongous presumptions" about Kellye and drew conclusions about her that turned out to be completely false, as well, so you can't chastise her for doing the same. Her "snappish warning words" on her profile weren't because she was "hyperly aggresive" (She is never rude to innocent people), but a response to the many people who attacked her with outright rudeness in a reply to a post she made that had no disrespect or ugliness in it whatsoever. You should be aware of the huge number of mean people and trolls there are on the internet.

"Some of the things on your biography make it sound like you try almost too hard to be aggressive and scare mean people away, like you've never recovered from the bullying and are still on the defensive." I swear, you need to shut the hell up and get your head out of your ass for the umpteenth time! The words in Kellye's previous bio did not have a damn thing to do with the school bullying she received. They were a response to the people who were mean to her on these message boards. You do not know a *beep* thing about Kellye seeing as how you have no idea who she is and have never met her, therefore, who the hell are you to make such a "humongous presumption" like the one I copied from you as if you have been there her entire life? You have no right trying to dictate who Kellye is and what goes on in her life as if you have been there.

No matter how completely calm and polite Kellye is, leave it to people like you to find her instant Bitch button and immediately upset her without warning. People like you do bring out the worst in others and make them look like the bad guys when they get upset.

Now on to your reply.

"You mean the way you did when responding to Kelly after she asked you to back off? The smiley-face suddenly?"

Again, get your head out of your ass. My reply to Kelly was in no way angry but straightforward.

"Kelly and I had both had our hackles up, so when she wrote politely to me, was a relief and of course very nice, and confirmed that I'd misunderstood her actions when I got mad, so of course I was friendly; what did you expect?"

When you misunderstood Kellye's words, you were quite angry at her in expressing your opinions. Your replies were angry, aggressive and disrespectful, so Kellye responded to you in the same manner. What did YOU expect? You were rude to Kelly, so she shot back at you. How did you expect her to be polite after that? Selfish much?

[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

As I said to you in my PM reply, I didn't bother reading most of your overblown message. But you must really care about my opinion if you post two frenetic replies, one the length of a short essay, just to tell me off about a fight ended what, six months ago now? More? Kelly, once again, already told me why she was mad and she was perfectly capable of expressing herself; now it's done. I'm sorry you feel the need to stir the pot, and especially to PM me and then put me on Ignore so you can't even glimpse my response. If you don't have me on Ignore, I hope you manage to read this calmly and finally move on.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

"It only becomes an issue when a person is disrespectful and self-righteous while presenting their opinions as on the Mary Kay Letourneau message boards"

Sorry, listening to people defend a woman who slept with a 13-year-old is not something I plan to be tolerable about.

[–] TheLovelyChristy 13 years ago

People have opposite opinions about things, moron. You may not agree with them, and that's fine, but you should learn how to respect them. If you don't condone "a woman who slept with a 13-year-old", that's totally fine, and very understandable (I don't want to get into the subject too much, but if a grown man slept with my teenage daughter, would I be pissed? Hell yeah. If a grown woman slept with my teenage son, would I be pissed? Probably, and I'd find it rather disgusting, too). If she defended a woman who slept with a 13-year-old, I'm sure she has her reasons. I may not agree with them, but I'd respect and would understand it if she gave rational reasons. Bottom line: People should respect each others' opposite opinions whether or not you agree with them.

[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

Christy, I'm aware that people have different opinions about things, and if you're trying to promote politeness here, it would probably help if you didn't call me, or anyone, names after talking with them for such a short time. I'm glad you understand the rage I would have with a woman like MKL.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TheLovelyChristy 13 years ago

whitespirit26, is it?

I've read all the postings between you and Kellye_Marie.

"just how is making your own child talk to you bad?

Because forced confidence is not confidence at all."

And who, might I ask, absolutely gives a damn? You do realize that if parents do not intervene if their child is being bullied, it may put that child at risk for wanting to commit suicide? The girl who was bullied in this movie had attempted to take her own life, so how can you say something as you just did? This makes that sentence of yours a little less relevant. You really ought to think before you post such stupid comments.

[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

I could give you the same advice, hon. Forced confidence is not confidence, and in more ways than one: a kid who's pushed will probably be tempted to lie about the situation, by either exaggerating or downplaying the actual problem. Not once have I advocated not being involved in a kid's life; this is vital and can be a matter of life and death. And yes, if the parent has reason to believe something very serious is happening, of course they should take drastic measures, searching their kid's room if they have to. But in general, bullying a kid into confidence is neither healthy nor beneficial; you should know this.

[–] KellyeB123 12 years ago

"'’I'm sure people didn't mean to annoy you'

Actually, adults should know better than to say offensive things and some say them quite deliberately."; "It's RUDE when they call a bullied girl a big baby or suggest that a scared little boy has no balls and is therefore useless as a male, like some have on Orphan."

I am not one of those adults. Also, it does not surprise me that adults deliberately say offensive things, because I know many adults who have not grown up and appear that they never will.

"It angers me when people don't THINK."

People who do not think and assess before saying offensive things and refuse to pull their heads from their asses anger me, as well.

"If someone makes a bullying thing small, I think I have reason to be harsh with them."

I agree with that. I am a victim of bullying; in my past school environment, whenever I reported my bullies to deans, I felt as if the deans did not take my reports seriously nor did much of anything about it; therefore, I was either forced to not do anything about my situation or take matters into my own hands. Sometimes, I feel that people treat bullying lightly and petty; I feel people treating bullying that way and not addressing it properly is exactly the cause of teen depression, suicide and the Columbine school shooting incident. In my past school environment, I feel as if I should have sued the deans and administrators for violating my civil rights by not protecting me from being bullied as it was their job to do so.

"You said this in your bio: 'It's like going up to a random person, a stranger whom you don't even know at all, and hitting them in the face unprovoked when they didn't do a thing to you'

Depends on what they say.;

Some of the things on your biography make it sound like you try almost too hard to be aggressive and scare mean people away, like you've never recovered from the bullying and are still on the defensive”

The sentence you quoted from my previous IMDb profile was not directed toward you and did not relate to bullying I received in school; it was directed toward IMDb users who are unnecessarily rude in their replies to posts I make that are simple, plain and not offensive, at all. I am defensive toward people who are intentionally and unnecessarily disrespectful toward me.

“but I certainly don't care to be their worst enemy or make their lives miserable.”

I do not waste time making miserable my enemies’ lives although they regularly wasted time doing so to mine. Oftentimes, I let karma punish them.

“The idea that you only give love to people who are nice to you isn't really Christ-like. I'm no angel either to people I think are mean,; Christians try to focus more on loving the hard-to-love than waiting to be loved by them."

I am not a Christian. I have zero tolerance for disrespect. I show no compassion nor respect to people who disrespect me. I do not give respect to people who clearly do not deserve it. Before you make such judgments, you should look at things from my point of view; I think my views sound understandable.

Regardless of what Christians believe, I do not waste time trying to love those who are disrespectful and "hard-to-love". I honestly do not have to like certain people. It does not benefit me in any way, and my enemies surely will not care, at all, if I loved them. They have no care for me as a person or my well-being.

"Deliberately refraining from forgiving someone doesn't hurt them, just you.”

This sentence caused me to be angry at you, because I felt that you were disrespectfully moralizing, condescending me, and talking to me as if I were a three-year-old.

I do not hold grudges against people. After a person betrays me and I have healed over time, I forgive that person when he/she apologizes only if he/she is sincere when doing so. However, I cannot forgive people who have no remorse and are not sorry for doing something hurtful.

I forgive, but I do not forget. If a friend betrays me, even though I may forgive that friend, I will not give him/her a second chance of having a personal friendship; I will not have a personal friendship with that person, but rather a civil one. I do not give second chances not to hold a grudge, but so that the betrayal will not happen, again. When a person betrays you, that person is showing that 1) you cannot trust him/her, and 2) if he/she is capable of betraying you, they may do so, again. I forgave and accepted many people as personal friends after they betrayed me, but no sooner had I accepted them than they betrayed me, again.

“If I heard a stranger call women *beep* or say something hateful about blacks, if I had the guts, I WOULD smack them, whether they 'meant to offend' or not.'"

I agree with this. I dislike people who are racists, chauvinists, homophobes, religious extremists, etc.; such beliefs motivate people to commit violent acts that sometimes take the lives of others.

“I hope you realize your personal comments about me were in fact opinions. I never even intended to argue with you, I just thought you words were exaggerated.”

The things I said about you in my previous posts were, indeed, exaggerated. I have deleted those posts, and I apologize for and recant the things I said.

“I don't even remember you on Orphan.”

In a post I created on the message boards of the movie, Orphan, I stated that the movie would have been more enjoyable if previous editions and drafts had been used. You created a reply to that post saying “The drafts WERE used”, and it came across as rude to me. I apologize for misinterpreting your reply that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88X0qYGrNAo

[–] KellyeB123 12 years ago

"so much for your own idea that starting small arguments over nothing is a bad idea."

At the time you and I had an argument between each other, your argument about “forced confidence” and the way in which a mother and daughter handle a situation of bullying was irrelevant to me, and I did not want to have a discussion about it. I did not mean that an argument between you and I was over something that was small but over something I did not care about. Also, please understand that my previous, two sentences are not intended to be disrespectful.

"I disagreed strongly with your words, and you're now taking it so personally"

I do not have a problem with people disagreeing with me nor presenting opposite points of view from mine; I am a fair person who accepts all points of view whether or not I agree with them. However, after you presented your perspective, said my views were inaccurate relating to the way in which a mother and daughter handled bullying, contradicted and corrected the things I said in my original post, I felt as if you were trying to make me feel and look like an idiot.

"Yes, I do get annoyed by dopey people (the people making fun of Vanessa were thoughtless and the person telling someone else to 'make' their daughter talk to them was acting like a very BAD counselor) and I do annoy them in turn when pointing out their thoughtlessness sometimes."; "Most people, however, don't annoy me unless they say something very stupid or mean."

I am not a “dopey” nor “thoughtless” person, and I do not say “stupid” or “mean” things; I am polite. However, I know that there are people who say such things, and I understand how you feel about it. For example, on the IMDb message boards of MTV reality shows 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom, a user created a post about the four females who appeared on the first season of Teen Mom named Amber Portwood, Maci Bookout, Catelynn Lowell and Farrah Abraham; the user rudely asked why Amber and Catelynn gained weight and Farrah and Maci didn’t gain weight and were skinny as “twigs” after pregnancy. Although I did not do so, I wanted to aggressively tell the user that metabolism controls the rate in which a person gains weight; if a female gains weight after pregnancy, whether or not she loses the weight is entirely her choice. In my opinion, big people can be beautiful, too. I also dislike people rudely making fun of Farrah because of the facial expression she makes when crying.

I will present another example: A movie called No One Would Tell is about a teenage, high-school girl named Stacy Collins who is physically abused by her boyfriend named Bobby Tennison. The entire movie is uploaded on YouTube; in the YouTube comments, I and other users feuded with a user who called Stacy Collins a "dumb bitch", “dizzy heifer”, “dumb ass”, and “pathetic ass” for not ending the relationship with and avoiding her abusive boyfriend and claimed Stacy had the power to do so and control over herself. The user then stated that Stacy’s “stupidity” of not leaving the abusive boyfriend caused her to be murdered. The user felt that her comments were not wrong. From the outside, it may appear easy to end a relationship with and avoid an abusive partner; however, in the inside, abusers can be psychologically controlling of their victims.

A movie named Speak is about a young girl who is raped and becomes traumatized and mute as a result. The entire movie is uploaded on YouTube; in one such YouTube comment, a trolling user stated that because the girl was raped, she became an “emo, mopey, whiny bitch”, and showed contempt for the girl not speaking and reporting the rape. Many victims of rape become mute, depressed and suffer severe psychological trauma I and the general public cannot even begin to understand.

"and the person telling someone else to 'make' their daughter talk to them was acting like a very BAD counselor."; "As for the film, what was Vanessa's mom supposed to do, chain her to the stairs?"

"A very BAD counselor"? That was unnecessary. I find your argument about a parent forcing confidence on his/her child to be irrelevant in the circumstance of the way in which a mother named Barbara and a daughter named Vanessa handled a situation of bullying. Barbara not intervening in the situation Vanessa was in led to Vanessa attempting suicide, an attempt that could have been successful. Vanessa’s “best friend” named Stacy told Vanessa her birthday party was going to be held at a club; Vanessa arrived at the club, the club was empty and there was no reservation made of Stacy and her family to be there. Vanessa was lied to and tricked; it led to her breaking point, in which she attempted suicide. Based on my original post, it appears that you thought I suggested that parents force confidence on their children all the time and even at times when there is nothing wrong nor tragic about to happen when I really didn’t say that, at all.

I find it incredibly hurtful that a person who claims to be one’s best friend lies to that person, hurts him/her, bullies and says mean things about him/her behind his/her back and causes others to bully that person, as well.

Another example, in which forced confidence is necessary is in the movie, No One Would Tell. At the end of the movie, a judge stated that people have a responsibility to protect the people they love and care about. The movie title, itself, clearly states that Stacy Collins' family and friends did nothing nor intervened when Stacy was being abused by her boyfriend; it led to him murdering her. If my best friend was being beaten by her boyfriend, would I do nothing and let the abuse continue? Absolutely not. Quite frankly, I do not care if my best friend told me she could handle the situation she was in herself; if she was being abused, I would intervene and try to stop it, and I would want her to dump the boyfriend.

"Nessa said she was going with Stacy, her mom said not to, Nessa said she couldn't hurt her anymore. And she was right: she later snapped in anger and told off the bullies once and for all. It was a long time in coming and had to happen. "

Near the end of the movie, I was glad when Vanessa stood up for herself, told off Stacy and ended the friendship with her. However, previously in the movie, Barbara not intervening in Vanessa’s situation led to Vanessa attempting suicide.

"you're insulting my entire way of speaking to others, not to mention making humongous presumptions about my motives and how every person I speak to reacts."

I apologize for doing that.

"I've looked over my posts, and a total of three of my recent ones have an exasperated tone, which I think is justified."

I understand that your tone may have been justified in those posts. As I've stated before, I know that there truly are people who say stupid, hurtful, thoughtless, and insensitive things, and I understand how you feel about it.

"From those three posts, you think you're qualified to tell me what my general relationship with people is like?"

I was not qualified to state how your relationship with other people is, and I apologize for doing so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88X0qYGrNAo

[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

I find it strange there's no reply of mine under your posts here, Kelly. But if I didn't say so in a previous post, thank you a lot for your clarifications and explanations. I apologize as well for my own hasty judgement.

[–] KellyeB123 12 years ago

Thank you. I'm completely past the arguing, but I was just simply updating all of my posts and clarifying things more clearly to you even though our previous posts were old at the time I gave new replies.

[–] whitespirit26 12 years ago

Ok, thanks for doing so.

[–] Tiffany1567 13 years ago

I agree with Kellye_Marie.

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