Line at the end - The Kingdom (2007) Discussion

[–] Norm_uk 16 years ago

Yes and No.

Given the kid was an Islamic Fundamentalist the concept of war is something more than just property and money...it's about Islam dominating the world until it converts everyone or has them live in subjugation to an Islamic state.

N.

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[–] ThereWillBeCaleb12 16 years ago

I was just outlining war, what I think it is all about. Because war wasn't started by the Islamics was it? IT was started by human, greedy human who just wanted. Property and Money.

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[–] RParmly-3 16 years ago

"Religion rarely causes war. Rather, it defines the respective teams in wars which are always about economics."
- Tom Clancy

Denny Crane.

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[–] Norm_uk 16 years ago

Indeed war is as old as humanity.

War primarily to spread a religion is fairly recent though I'd guess...usually religion is used as an excuse for war, not a cause of it.

Also, only one major religion today has direct and literal justification of war against other groups soley because they are not members of that religion...

N.

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[–] buckeyepride85 16 years ago

Just as the Jews prsecuted Christ, the current day world has religions pinned against one another. Religious and politcal battles have ruled the world since the dawn of time. Think about it, the Romans view vs. the Greeks view of how things should be ran.

For you to never have been to war or seen a man or woman down, its easy to cast a label on war, and quite unfair.

The current war we are in is much more than property and money. What money or land have we gained? None. We have spent BILLIONS of our own dollars to stop the opression of women's rights, to ensure children in Iraq have an education. The same basic human rights we as Americans take for granted are something the AMERICANS are fighting for.

I have had the pleasure to serve in Balad (Iraq), Al Udied (Qatar), Ali Al Salem (Kuwait), and Djibouti. I am Active Duty Air Force.

Not once have I seen our troops get land or money. We put our life on the line for the freedoms of others. Our American gangs are nothing compared to their's.

Again, its stupid to say war is about human greed, when we (America) isn't fighting for money or land, and neither is our opposition (the various Islamic gangs ruling Southwest Asia).

None better than THE Ohio State University!

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[–] Norm_uk 16 years ago

Romans and Greeks had very similar religions - the Romans ended up literally copying most of the Greek Gods and just giving them different names. At no point were Romans and Greeks fighting over religion...they fought over land and to expand their cultural and political influence and were quite open about the fact.

Also, as someone who has done military service I can honestly say I have never come accross anyone who described active duty as a "pleasure".

N.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful"

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[–] buckeyepride85 16 years ago

If you have never heard anyone describe "active duty" as "pleasure", then you must not have served in the USAF. We get paid to fly around the world on various missions and to save lives. I love what I do - its called pride.

None better than THE Ohio State University!

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[–] Norm_uk 16 years ago

Ah that explains it...yes the airforce would be a pleasure given the USAF has not fought an enemy capable of fighting back on a reasonably equal footing since the second world war.

I thought you meant real active duty...you know where you might get killed by people deliberately instead of just landing bad or flying too low and getting your fuel tank dented by a raghead's AK fire ;O)

N.

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[–] buckeyepride85 16 years ago

Umm, how about the fact that my HC-130P has been fired at upon landings in/around Djibouti? Also, we have been shot at (and hit) with RPG's. We do rescue missions.

You must not know that the Air Force has several different Spec Ops job's huh?
- SERE (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape)
- Combat Controller (in the muck, kicking in doors)
- Combat Weather
- Pararescue (repelling into hostile areas to drag downed Airmen out)
- TAC-P (Directly in the fight, calling in air strikes)

Seriously, I do rescue missions in the sh*ttiest places of the Middle East. Its anything but a cake walk. Read up a bit more on the USAF missions, deaths, collisions, etc.

None better than THE Ohio State University!

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[–] gato1975 15 years ago

buckeyepride85, dude, I served also, and I understand what you are saying, but let me tell you that you have been brainwashed, of course USA is fighting for monetary retribution, or do you think that the oil does not have any value, of course you are not fighting for land, you are fighting for other people's interests, and, I am sure, you will see that once you are out of the military.

It is good that you believe that you are doing it for the people there, but do not think that because they live different, they do not live happy, it is just a different way of life

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[–] afg-eva 13 years ago

im gonna have to go with norm on this one. really, how many of the casualties and deaths in current US wars are from the airforce? like outta the 5000+ casualties in iraq, how many from the USAF?

the USAF just goes in and points laser guided super bombs and canons from so high up and far away, that most of the guys about to get hit dont even know they are being targetted. not that it would make a difference anyways.

really in terms of combat roles, the airforce is the safest next to the navy currently.

so please, dont compare your experiences with the boots on the ground.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chady-amatoury 12 years ago

You forgot world piece princess.

Here's a fun fact, KSA is the first oil supplier currently for the US. + Let's not forget why Iraq was invaded. I seriously doubt it was for the freedom of others. You need to look at things from above and not from what your unit captain tells you. You're not saving lives, you're infiltrating a political structure so you can gain access to oil and gas.

So if you're thinking that there's no money and property involved, maybe its time you consider where the oil and gas in the middle-east are going. You should have access to TV and news sometimes, and listen to the WORLDWIDE critics that came out after the war on Iraq for instance. Do you really think that it is to turn down tyranny....it's only to replace it by another one.

Here's another fun fact... History is written by the winners + plus your media are just reporting what they see fit. Maybe you should talk to some locals the next time you visit the Middle-East. The billions of dollars spent each year by the US government are only spent in order to receive way more in return because the oil industry is very profitable... specially in these days.
Bottom line: your lives are in a deck of cards!!! You just have to know how to look at the big pictures and the consequences of every decision made by the big nations.

Peace

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[–] victorherm54 12 years ago

buckeyepride85: "The current war we are in is much more than property and money. What money or land have we gained? None. We have spent BILLIONS of our own dollars to stop the opression of women's rights, to ensure children in Iraq have an education. The same basic human rights we as Americans take for granted are something the AMERICANS are fighting for.

I have had the pleasure to serve in Balad (Iraq), Al Udied (Qatar), Ali Al Salem (Kuwait), and Djibouti. I am Active Duty Air Force.

Not once have I seen our troops get land or money. We put our life on the line for the freedoms of others. Our American gangs are nothing compared to their's.

Again, its stupid to say war is about human greed, when we (America) isn't fighting for money or land, and neither is our opposition (the various Islamic gangs ruling Southwest Asia)."
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Good lord, what an absolute brainwashed DOLT. Trust me, man, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I guess it makes sense that you actually believe this, though, since you also seem to take an abnormal amount of pride in what university you attended after high school.

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[–] prettyfly9 15 years ago

But I don't see any Saudi military bases in the US or in any where else in the World ! I don't think they want to dominate the world ! All they want is to govern them selves as Hard Core Taliban (with the help of the US)did after the USSR left Afghanistan.

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[–] xav-jacob-IMDB 15 years ago

"Again, its stupid to say war is about human greed, when we (America) isn't fighting for money or land, and neither is our opposition (the various Islamic gangs ruling Southwest Asia). "

This was hilarious. Of all the dictators in the world, and of all the challenges in the world, with millions dying through genocide in sub-saharan Sudan, and a necrocratic dictatorship killings thousands in North Korea, we search only those countries to liberate, that have some oil for us :-)

Iraq had done us no harm. We still bombed them, for the oil. Understandable. We need cheap oil, and if you don't give it to us, we will bomb you to hell. But after doing that, we will also claim moral superiority here - now that is plainly disgusting.

Not to add, that we brave solders will shoot and fire only from a distance using F16s and drones, till we are sure that you have been effectively 'neutralized'.

People, the Iraq war was about the oil. And no amount of bombing Afpak, or medieval torture, will yield Osama. There are better ways of spreading American culture and values around the world, than bombing people to accept them.

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[–] kairingler 15 years ago

it kinda blew me away the ending line of kill em all,, i guess it's what they are taught at a very young age. to hate westerners
are you going to bark all day little doggie,, or are you going to bite

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[–] therock0603 15 years ago

The end didn't really fit for me because it just seemed out of place. The whole movie felt pretty conservative to me. The good guys were clearly defined, as were the bad guys. There wasn't any kind of moral equivalency bs going on throughout the movie. Not only that, but it made the politically correct pansies look like...well...pansies, and glorified those who would risk all they had to do what was right. Then with the final lines of the movie, they convey some kind of "violence begets violence" message that is so often used to blur the lines between the forces of good and evil. It just didn't really make sense considering the message that was being conveyed for the entire two hours up until that point. Anyone have any insight into how the ending could be considered consistent with the rest of the movie?

I have had it with these monkey-fightin' snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane!

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[–] victorherm54 12 years ago

therock0603:"The end didn't really fit for me because it just seemed out of place. The whole movie felt pretty conservative to me. The good guys were clearly defined, as were the bad guys. There wasn't any kind of moral equivalency bs going on throughout the movie. Not only that, but it made the politically correct pansies look like...well...pansies, and glorified those who would risk all they had to do what was right. Then with the final lines of the movie, they convey some kind of "violence begets violence" message that is so often used to blur the lines between the forces of good and evil. It just didn't really make sense considering the message that was being conveyed for the entire two hours up until that point. Anyone have any insight into how the ending could be considered consistent with the rest of the movie?"
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That's because Peter Berg is a bit of a hack.

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[–] k-robinson-1 13 years ago

I do agree somewhat with your thoughts. War is a terrible way to cover-up the greed of a few bad men. On a side note, I am actually friends with the kid at the end! When I found out he was in this movie I went out to rent it and was appalled at how important his role was in this movie.

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[–] umcpgrad 12 years ago

with what is going on in the world lately I agree with what jamie foxx said in the end

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[–] feedback-636-660834 12 years ago

I regarded the line as an afterthought, for some other purpose than completing the film, possibly to win some sort of nomination. It was inconsistent with the entire theme of the film up to that point, and I overlooked it and disregarded it, except for recalling that it disappointed me.

If it were intended as a "springboard for discussion", it failed. There are many reasons, but imo the central one is that the FBI is not about war-making while the terrorists are only about war-making: their connotations for "kill them all" are completely different.

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[–] spookyrat1 12 years ago

I actually thought it was a good way to end the film, which had as one of its underlying themes, cross - cultural clashes and misconceptions.

Initially the Fleury character is thinking with his heart and not his head and verbalising what many of the other agents feel at that time of tragedy when he says that unheard line early in the picture. I think the inference being, that with hind sight gained with all that he'd been through and seen by the end of the film, he probably wouldn't necessarily agree with those thoughts.

Contrastingly the jihadists are frequently raised from a very young age (e.g. the boy) to only think with their hearts and never their heads. Thus the line spoken from grandfather to grandson.

"If it were intended as a "springboard for discussion", it failed."

IMO I think it worked if this thread is any sort of evidence.

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[–] markleonard0131 10 years ago

At last someone who may have watched the same film as me.

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[–] MOOVYZ 8 years ago

This is the ONLY part of the film I didn't like and wished it hadn't made the cut. Let me expound...

The U.S. is supposed to stand for Freedom, Justice and Equal Rights. This movie is an excellent tale that's very accurate, meaning the story has happened and will happen again in a very similar way. This includes the line in question. Many fanatics over there want to kill us all. Many U.S. citizens want to kill them all.

But we all know that these "tendencies" ARE THE PROBLEM! Until we stop trying to kill each other and learn to get along, the hatred and killing will never end.

So if you're trying to tell a story, and I want to emphasize that I LOVED this movie (Great job Peter, you make watchable films), you do want to also send some kind of message, otherwise you're making a documentary.

So ok, keep the line, but at least temper the line with one of the characters saying, "Isn't that the problem?" Leaving the film with both sides saying "kill them all" just makes most of the audience leave wanting the same, feeling the same sentiment.

If I had been one of the agents and I heard my supervisor say that I would not be able to just go along. I would have to call that person out. If we truly stand for all the ideals we preach, then the most important one is the willingness to be better.

"He's not Judge Judy and executioner!"

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