MovieChat Forums > Miami Vice (2006) Discussion > How did the AB figure they were cops?

How did the AB figure they were cops?

posted 12 years ago by filompra
15 replies | jump to latest

I'm not sure, but I think I'm pointing out a pretty gaping hole in the plot.
The Arian Brotherhood gang massacre the Russian undercover officers after asking "how long have you worked for the FBI?".
Upon discovering about the massacre, Jamie Foxx, Colin Farrell and the FBI guy all start wondering "HOW DID THEY KNOW?". The answer, right away, is "we don't know", but I was inclined to think they would have revealed that by the end of the movie.
When the AB skinheads kidnap Jamie Foxx's girlfriend (involved in the mission), we don't really get to know why they did that, do we? The Colombian cartel Intel guy, played by John Ortiz, has always been suspicious about Jamie Foxx and Colin Farrell, right from the start, and he tells the boss (they guy who looks like an Hispanic Bin Laden) that he doesn't trust them because (direct quote) "they're too good at what they do". However, the boss tells him "they checked out (criminal records...), Isabella disagrees with you ('cause she's *beep* Colin Farrell)", and that's where the argument ends.
Later on John Ortiz shows his boss a video of Isabella and Colin Farrell dancing, pointing out that it was more than an affair, it was love (cry me a *beep* river). He gets jealous and tells him he can have Isabella and do whatever he pleases with her. BUT THAT HAPPENS AFTER THE ARIAN BROTHERHOOD HAS KIDNAPPED JAMIE FOXX'S GIRLFRIEND! And anyway, even if the order came from the Colombian boss or John Ortiz, it still would be out of jealousy (pretty lame reason, if you ask me) and it wouldn't explain how the Arian Brotherhood / Colombians knew about the two FBI agents at the beginning of the movie!
What kind of Intel do they have? How did they figure out (for sure, not out of instinct) that they were dealing with cops?
Please help me figure it out, before I start loosing my respect for Michael Mann (filmmaker I really like).

thanks!

[–] filompra 12 years ago

I made a mistake. The two FBI guys get killed because Alonzo (the great John Hawkes) tells them about it, after his wife gets taken hostage. Ok. So the question I guess I was asking, the one that doesn't get answered in the movie, is: how did they figure out Alonzo was a police/FBI informer?
The never reveal that in the movie, do they?

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Robot-Werewolf 12 years ago

It's not a 'huge plot hole'. The information about the undercover officers and the informant is leaked from within one of the agencies involved in the case.
Tubbs instructs Fujima to issue an alert about a drug shipment, with different days stated to different departments. He tells him to keep it classified and out of inter-agency communications.
The information leaks with details that were only given to FBI Operations in Washington DC. So, they find out what agency and what office has the leak.

[–] filompra 12 years ago

yeah, but we don't get to see The bastard who actually sold them out, do we?
Considering how this movie opens, I was inclined to think that finding the mole was as important as finding the AB gang. I thought that information would've been of major importance in the story, kind of like in "Mission: Impossible", where we all want to know who is the mysterious Jobe who sold the unit out in the beginning of the movie.
You're right, Robot-Werewolf, the leak came from the FBI but, still, I think it's pretty lame that we don't get to see the traitor's face

[–] Steven_Snell 12 years ago

i agree it is unusual for the movie never to address that (although i think that makes me like the movie even more), and while sonny and rico originally go undercover to discover who the mole is, their plans later change and they are more interested in bring down yero, montoya, and company.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] MettaQueensbridgeWarfare 11 years ago

Once it's identified which agency is responsible for the leak, the onus is no longer on Crockett & Tubbs. It's on the agency responsible for the leak. The FBI. Did ppl want to see the story deviate to them going undercover in the FBI? lol

[–] m_wonderful 9 years ago

I think with Montoya getting away, Isabella getting away, and the leak not totally identified....I expect a sequel was planned to answer some of these.

I wish they had made a sequel. I loved it.

[–] paul_cowsill 8 years ago

It was an inter-agency task force, involving the federal and Miami branches of the FBI, the ADA, ATF, and US Customs, but not the Miami-Dade police. So they go undercover to find the mole in whichever agency, and "leak" various shipment dates to discover it. And by the way, the AB also killed Alonzo's two boys who were lying on the floor with plastic bags over their heads. They got his whole family killed, so that is why he committed suicide.

Irony is like goldy or bronzy, but it's made of iron.

[–] franzkabuki 12 years ago

"He gets jealous and tells Yero he can have Isabella".

It´s not just jealousy. The crucial question for Montoya at that point - if she had betrayed his trust on one front, how can he trust her with anything else? And of course he can´t; for all he knew, she may have been feeding Crockett inside information all along.

"But that happens after the Aryan Brotherhood has kidnapped Jamie Foxx´s girlfriend".

You seem to be saying that kidnapping Trudy had something to do with Isabella´s perceived betrayal of Montoya. It appears, however, that the reason for her kidnapping was to simply capture the dope without paying for it and kill Crockett/Tubbs since they were considered not sufficiently trustworthy.

"It´s pretty lame that we don´t get to see the traitor´s face".

And what would you have done with that face which, in all likelihood, we´d never even seen before? No pay-off or fulfillment in that. Plus it seems appropriate, considering the films themes of elusiveness of the global crime syndicates and hopelessly blurred identities, that the actual rat was never discovered (although he might have been in the future, considering they now knew which agency he belonged to).

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] MickyIrish 12 years ago

For some reason I thought that the other confidential informant that gets them connected to the Colombians in the first place ended up ratting them out for a bigger pay day or something. The reason I thought this was because towards the end as you see a shot of his abandoned '$4,000,000 condo' and I'm pretty sure the Task force swings by to find this out. It's a bit confusing however because there isn't any dialog in the last few minutes of the film just music playing in the background. This may only be in the directors cut or I may have misinterpreted this, its been a few years since I saw the movie which I actually really enjoyed. I think there may have been other unanswered plot lines because of the assumption that this movie would have made a SH IT load in the box office which would have warranted a sequel that may have played off the first film. This is just my speculation tho.

[–] mrojola 11 years ago

For some reason I thought that the other confidential informant that gets them connected to the Colombians in the first place ended up ratting them out for a bigger pay day or something.

Not so. If the informant had said something he would have been killed immediately, too. He vouched for Crockett & Tubbs so it's on him if anything goes wrong.

The giant empty mansion was Montoya's house in South America. He got away clean in the end.

I love this movie and a big reason for that is that it does not spell out everything and the viewer actually has to use his/her brains to work some things out. I get irritated when someone complains about plot holes in this movie (related to the mole in the FBI), because that just means that 1) they are stupid or 2) too lazy to pay attention or 3) are disappointed that the movie is not about finding the mole.

The last point is about the movie not being what they wanted and surprising them - who knew that not knowing what is about to happen in a movie becomes a bad thing. Crockett and Tubbs going after the mole personally would have been idiotic. They found out which agency has the mole so it is down to 15 people at most and that person will be found. It is pretty obvious that Tubbs and Crockett try to catch the guy who is paying the mole and running an international drug smuggling operation since they got close enough to meet him personally.

Perhaps the plot was too "difficult" for general public, but I enjoyed putting the pieces together.

PS. I don't think the movie is perfect. It always bothers me that Zito somehow is able to get a grenade through the security and then throw it to Crockett. Minor thing, for me, though.

[–] jawrig11 10 years ago

I feel like this movie left things out because they thought they'd get a sequel. In part 2 they would actually catch Montoya and the leak.

[–] Embee-El 10 years ago

If the movie had gotten a sequel, I doubt the story would have had anything to do with the one in this film. That was sort of the point. Not everything gets wrapped up. And sometimes, people get away with things. They'd run into this on the series, as well.

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[–] black-hood 9 years ago

You seem to be saying that kidnapping Trudy had something to do with Isabella´s perceived betrayal of Montoya. It appears, however, that the reason for her kidnapping was to simply capture the dope without paying for it and kill Crockett/Tubbs since they were considered not sufficiently trustworthy.

No. The kidnapping was done on Yero's instruction, the AB were to be rewarded with a 30% discount on the shipment.