MovieChat Forums > Hagane no renkinjutsushi (2004) Discussion > A few questions about the Homunculi

A few questions about the Homunculi

posted 10 years ago by MachoIllegal
11 replies | jump to latest

They say a homunculus is born when "an alchemist attempts and fails a human transmutation." But what if a Homunculi is the result of a successful human transmutation. Immortal beings with all the memories of the deceased intact... If the ones in the show hadn't been corrupted by Dante how would they have turned out? Are they inherently evil?

Or what if those were the only 7? There would be so little that we could even possibly know about them. Just because the Homunculi are the product of forbidden realm of alchemy doesn't objectively make them a bad thing, does it? Wrath had changed by the end didn't he? So did Lust. What does that say about Homunculi in general?

But then again, they're not human so it makes sense that inhuman creatures breed from something called "human transmutation" would be called a failure (perhaps they're a successful creation of inhuman transmutation?) It's clear that Al and Ed are prime examples, if not sole examples, of a successful attempt at human transmutation. But again, it doesn't mean a Homunculus is purely evil, or even a little bit. Hard to say.

On a related note. Who the hell tried to bring whoever, or whatever, Gluttony was back to life? All the other Homunculi looked like humans, but that thing? It was like a different species; a horribly overweight and disproportionate creature. What's up with him? I would have liked to have known more about their individual past lives but I guess it doesn't matter. Perhaps I should watch Brotherhood or read the Manga for more information.

[–] angmc43 10 years ago

Indeed, I do agree it was more of a 'nurture over nature' situation. It adheres to the FRANKENSTEIN theme: you don't create a monster by playing God; you create a monster by not taking responsibility for what you created. Most of the Homunculi were abandoned by their creators. Some were too wounded from their mutilation to do anything at the first instance (Edward, Scar's brother). Others refused or deserted what they created (Izumi, Hohenheim). Others who survived the injury were too traumatized by the encounter, denying such a creation existed (Edward). They all prey to Dante (Pride and Greed), who, although took them under her wing, clearly cared little for any of them. It is also implied that eating philosopher stones have a nasty effect. Wrath seemed okay until he gobbled the PS, then he turned evil.

It was also suggested that there were other Homunculi who took the role of the sins. I suppose that like Greed, these predecessors disobeyed Dante and paid for it.

Gluttony is a mystery. We know the other Homunculus creators. I suppose Gluttony was one real botch-up of a transmutation.

You won't find more information from the manga/BROTHERHOOD, because the creations are very different. The 'Failed transmutation = Homunculi' is specific to the Anime1 only.

[–] MachoIllegal 10 years ago

The 'Failed transmutation = Homunculi' is specific to the Anime1 only.

Is that right? Huh. I guess that's why it doesn't completely add up.

I just watched the movie by the way, worst ending to a series I have ever seen. The film was fine until the last ten minutes or so. I can't remember the last time a film has affected me this much. A mixture of sadness and anger over the fact that all they did was for nothing as Ed made it his responsibility to take care of something he didn't need to on earth, doubtlessly binding himself to a fate with his brother to die young deaths from either disease or war in a cynical and magicless world.

Oh, and in the film Wrath eats some redstone and doesn't turn evil so there's some discrepancies there.

I have to watch Brotherhood to wash out my mouth.

[–] angmc43 10 years ago

Well. I could argue that the PS have a negative drug effect for new Homunculus like Wrath. Sorta like how people inexperienced with alcohol immediately get drunk after two drinks. By CoS, however, Wrath was more in control of his sense of self (who he was, accepting Izumi and the Gate), and was able to withstand the effects better.

Disagree about CoS. I liked the ending. Edward is a responsible person who has to face what he's done (denying Sloth, losing Al his body, his knowledge helping the Thule Society invade his earth) and making up for it (killing Sloth, staying in our world to close the Gate and protect his world). His key ambition in the series was restoring Al his body, and he succeeded in that wish, getting confirmation about it in the movie. And despite the Third Reich and WWII on the horizon, I honestly see potential in their future there. Besides, let's not forget they came from a violent, cynical magical world, where they were equally likely to die young (and actually did). Ed and Al are not the babes in the woods; they are survivors. I see them living long and prospering. There is an OVA that shows a possible future.

[–] MachoIllegal 10 years ago

You may be right about the stones, I suppose that makes sense

As for COS, I'm still a little doubtful. His father, and Earth Al, sacrificed themselves to send Ed back. He did stop the invasion, so that's something, but what are the odds that anyone would try to get through the portal again? Everyone behind the attack was killed, weren't they? And the rocket they built was a slag heap in another world. If someone did find the portal on the ceiling of the laboratory, any attempt to enter through will result in their death, and so I honestly doubt another invasion would happen. The woman behind it was really the only one who knew anything about what was going on.

To recap. There aren't any more rockets, all the masterminds behind the invasion are dead, the portal can't likely stay open forever, the things that were used to open it (the dragon, Ed's father and Al who both sacrificed themselves so Ed could pass through) are dead, the remaining Aryans (if there were any left that were behind it, or even remotely capable, which I doubt) probably wouldn't try again as the first guys they sent through came back dead, and again, all the people who were behind the fluke of a mission that couldn't have happened without the improbably of all this coming together, along with the impossibility of it ever happening again, were killed.

And another thing, If Ed had brought the Gypsy (and while it was a one person rocket, there was definitely room for her), he could have sent her back to do it, with her acknowledging that she doesn't belong there. Why didn't Ed let her come in the first place? Because he decided she didn't belong there himself, but still goes back to live there for the rest of his life. It just seems wrong to me.

But you raise some fine points. Maybe I should watch it again down the road to gain a fresh perspective.

[–] angmc43 10 years ago

Rudolph Hess was still alive (he eventually became Deputy Fuhrer), and definitely so was Adolf Hitler. Both ended up arrested after the Putsch failed, but they were eventually released to cause more trouble for Germany and people like Noah. Both of them knew what Eckhart was doing (if Hitler didn't know, Hess would have told him). Even if it took a while, another invasion would happen. Hitler was an egomaniac who didn't care how many soldiers died as long as they won and conquered (and if there was failures, Hitler thought it was THEIR fault). Thus, he wouldn't mind such sacrifices, and if his mind is on something, he is not going to stop no matter the cost. And let us not forget, the soldiers did make it through- transformed- and caused a lot of damage to Central. More lives would be lost in these failed invasions.
As for the Gates, there is no evidence that they were going to close by themselves (Edward certainly believed in its permanence). Even if they closed the portal in the FMA world, the portal in the real world would have remained open. And we saw Eckhart was able to send an army via a one-way portal, and she used no rockets there (Liore). And there is a good chance Al H.'s crew knew how to make rockets. Perhaps they helped make the bleitzgrieg rockets used in WWII?
As for Noa not coming, remember Edward's return was not his own choice. He got unconscious and was strapped to the rocket. Al had to be discreet about it, with soldiers around. It was his luck Edward fell to his position while Noa was still up on the loft; no time and too dangerous to get her. And did Al H. know Noa's dreams and wishes?
Besides, if by chance Noa went with Edward, I doubt she would have wanted to leave. And Edward would not consider sending her back to close the Gate; too dangerous; better he make that sacrifice. At any rate, the situation that allowed Edward to return (getting aboard the ship) would not have included Noa (you see her joining the Brothers in the attack?).
In short, closing the Gate in the real world was the only way to protect the FMA world, and someone had to go there and close it. And Edward felt it his responsibility to do it himself.

[–] MachoIllegal 10 years ago

Ah, it seems I overlooked a few details regarding the circumstances. But again, I question how much Hitler, or Hess, knew about it. The woman did shoot one of the people with her when he pointed out that the portal doesn't actually lead to Shamballa. She went rouge, though that doesn't mean invasion, whatever the destination, wasn't inevitable anyway. You're right about that.

I did find this expert from Wikipedia that may lend some credence to my theory (grain of salt though.)

She [Dietrich Eckart] is an ambitious young woman who desires to open the gate to Edward's world, believing it to be the utopia "Shamballa", so that she may harness the powers and weapons of that world and overthrow Hitler in contrast to her organization's goal to support the Nazi Party.

Anyway, If I was involved in the writing process I would have had the portal opening be a once in a lifetime thing, and for a limited duration only, ha.

Thinking about it again, I'm sure you're right about Ed an Al's fate on earth. They're young, intelligent, gifted, and wiser than the average person. So I'd be very surprised if they didn't excel at whatever they put their minds to. It's still a huge downer that they left Winry, Rose, Roy, Alex Armstrong, and the others. Oh Well.

"We can't keep living like or own dreams are all that matter."

Thanks for the replies.

[–] angmc43 10 years ago

Hess was present in all the portal creations (the first trip, the return trip, Putsch night). On the final portal, Eckhart told Hess to inform the Fuhrer of their actions. Fritz Lang informed Edward about the Thule Society's promise to the Fuhrer to get weapons from the universe beyond the portal. So, Hitler knew about the other world, and Hess would add his knowledge about the final portal.

Your welcome.

[–] puma31219 9 years ago

In this show, Humunculus means "Human Doll" or false human. It doesn't necessarily mean a failed attempt but since human transmutation is a damned art in itself, every attempt will fail. (Wrath may have been the exception seeing as his own body was used) The equations of Alchemy are the answer to the Humunculi. In Human transmutation, the only way a successful attempt can be born is to sacrifice ones own life (which is what Ed did at the end of the show). Only sacfrices pieces (like a few drops of blood or a couple of limbs) will produce the mutated Humunculi that we've seen. The reason that feeding them Philosophers stones turns them into the evil creatures is because they're eating souls that were used to create the souls and it corrupts them. The stones give them regenerative abilities which is how their bodies form from "sloppy amalgamated flesh" into their perfect bodies. Their gifts (Greed's "perfect shield", Lust's "perfect spear", etc.) are forms of alchemy. Their bodies are comprised of Philosophers stones so they're able to transmute themselves in a specific way.

[–] ndgk 9 years ago

Well I'll try not to spoil but the perfect transmutation is on the last two episodes in brotherhood. It does happen.

[–] angmc43 9 years ago

It also happened in the last episode of this series as well.

[–] lonelyoblivious 9 years ago

You're missing on something here; failed ones can't stay alive; if it wasn't for Dante, they would have died shortly after the transmutation. That's why there are only seven of them while there have possibly been hundreds of human transmutations done before. It is clearly stated in the show.