Originally filmed as a 6-Hour mini-series
But it stunk so bad they cut it to a 3-hour movie.
And it still stunk !
But it stunk so bad they cut it to a 3-hour movie.
And it still stunk !
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I shudder to think there's over 2 more hours of crap they cut out.
shareOh joy-that means you'll soon find "The PA-Director's Cut" in a clearance bin near you. Complete with outtakes, the "making of", and running commentary by Steve "Police Academy" Guttenberg.
I know it was you, FREDO -- you broke my heart -- you broke my heart!
It was never filmed as a 6 hour mini, it WAS filmed as a four hour and good portion of the world will see that version. NBC asked us to do it as a one night event and cut it to three - I could be wrong but when it airs on The Hallmark Channel they may go with the four hour version.
sharessq,
NEWS STORY:
"The Poseidon Adventure was apparently shot as a six-hour miniseries and condensed into a one-night TV movie.
Whether the chopped-out character development would have helped draw us in or simply made the movie sink to Davy Jones' Locker even faster is open to speculation. But based on how leaden the dialogue is, "glub-glub" would be a safe bet. "
http://www.torontosun.com/Entertainment/Television/2005/11/20/1314828-sun.html
As I was the co-exec producer, lived in Capetwon for three months during the shoot, it would be wise to take me as/for a better source.
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This is a longer conversation than I would want to write (I'll try to answer you as best I can without taking up too much time) but some of the comments are fair and others are petty and ridiculous. I say that because this is a movie, a disaster movie at that, and a remake of a camp classic (we were bound to disappoint or fall a bit flat with many). I feel that the three hour cut was a mistake as it short changed many of the sub-plots and your (the audiences) desire to know the characters better, a complaint by aired by many. Many of the comments I have read are right to point out problems but a good portion of this comes from the cut, and from things that were required for a network sale. Everyone worked very hard on the film (from the director to everyone in the cast and crew) spending weeks after weeks slogging through ankle to chest high water. The stunt people were nothing short of amazing. It is a shame but the flip which on screen only takes a few minutes was chocked full of great old school physical stunts. We built this huge gimble to put sets into and literally flipped them with stunt people inside them. I can't go into details because of contracts, and other legal issues but if you knew what we made the film for and really equate the manpower, set value/production value (which I thought were largely very good), CGI which easily could have been better, number of characters, and all the other moving pieces I am very happy with the work that we did. The cuts are another story but those decisions were not left really in our hands. John Putch, who has gotten a lot of flak, is a very talented director, forget his low budget disaster stuff, as we all have to earn a living. Many of the posters, who know little to nothing about the business, feel they have the most informed opinion out there (I am not talking about the people with thoughtful and fair comments I'm talking about the people who are just being crass and rude, you all can feel free and are smart enough to figure out who those people are) John's indie film Valerie Flake is a really well done low budget film with no real names but I loved it (fyi he has a new Digital film that is on his website that I think will be worth watching). His work for us at LLP (where I am no longer at, and now running my own production company) has always been excellent, and he throws himself at the work. Gutts had a tough role, in the longer version you find out that his wife is a real ball and that his indiscretion is born of years of marital disconnect, but in the end he is still a philandering jackass; as an actor who has played largely the good guys this isn't going to over well with many people, and I feel was brave of him. Steve was the first person on set many days, and helped carry our spirits through 16-17 hour days with smoke, fire, and the unending water. Adam Baldwin not only worked hard, but also I think did a really solid job for us. Peter Weller, Bryan Brown, Tommy, Tinarie, Rutger, Amber, Rory, Alexia, Natalie, Sylvia, Clive, Peter Butler, Andrew, Alex, Geoff, Peter Dobson and all the others who are just too many to name did everything we asked of them and more. I consider myself very lucky to have had the opportunity to work with all of these talented, hard working, and wonderful actors. When you make a film like this the sky is not the limit - you have budget issues, casting issues, length (three hour cuts, four hours cuts, it gets ridiculous - who wants to watch four hours of anything - well most anything) location issues, scripting issues, notes from here and there (too many masters to serve). Some things work out really well, others (for no lack of trying) fizzle. You will never make everyone happy, but what you do try is to do is entertain some, then take and understand the criticism leveled at you by others. Which I said is fair on some points and not on others. I liked the film for what it is, I think the four hour which is coming to DVD and I believe the Hallmark Channel both very soon and not in that order, will easily be better. It was a fantastic experience, the people of Capetown and South Africa were amazing, we were there when the celebrated 10 years of democracy and while they still have a long way to go it was inspiring to see where they have come already and I am excited to see how they move forward. I learned a lot from the production experience, appreciate the comments of the audience as I will learn from them. I also am thankful that so many people around the world will take the time to love or hate this film, as they gave us that time. I will close with this one thought, if you don't want remakes stop buying and going to see them. Boycott them and the powers that be will stop doing them. I have done over 40 films, some I've loved, some I was disappointed in (for a myriad of reasons), but films (remakes especially) get made because the money men know what type of return they will get - BECAUSE you all go or tune into them so regularly. They do it cause it is easy but for us on the creative side it is usually a no win proposition, but you do as you are told. The consumer is as much to blame for the creative short comings as the studios or networks are. I revel in doing new, creative, and different films but we have to keep the lights on, so please be fair and spread the blame around a bit. Thank you (kenenation-1) for your interest and I would love to hear your thoughts after you view the film.
shareThanks for sharing your thoughts with us ssquillante-1. It's nice to hear from an insider, instead of just talking amongst ourselves. I can appreciate that you and your colleagues put a lot of effort and heart put into the film. Unfortunately the final product made available to the audience was disappointing. That's why you see so many negative comments.
I hope you don't take people's comments personally. Realize people are reacting to what came on our TVs. Most of us aren't putting down the effort of most people involved behind the scenes.
I'm counting on you to live and learn from this experience. Hopefully that includes giving the audience more credit and not just shoveling any old crap at us through the TV.
I had no problem with the terrorism angle. I also had no problem with the "who lived, who died" choices. Second-guessing those decisions strikes me as endlessly pointless.
And the ballroom flooding was 10 times better than the original.
But, honestly, i didn't like this version at all. The dialogue and the acting was so, so, so long-winded, banal and unrealistic. It killed the movie for me. Guttenburg stopping every 5 minutes to whine about how much he loves everyone in his family right when the ship is minutes from sinking? C'mon!
For kicks, I would've liked a movie strictly based on the book, and see the reaction. Since you had rights to the book, it would be interesting to really play it out the way the book does, which likely wouldn't have played well in 1972.
But the acting killed this for me. I never got the sense that the surviving group felt threatened by impending doom. The actors in the original were worn, tired, panicked and almost at each other's throats. These actors were hitting marks and waiting for their closeups.
Just my opinion.
"But the acting killed this for me. I never got the sense that the surviving group felt threatened by impending doom. The actors in the original were worn, tired, panicked and almost at each other's throats. These actors were hitting marks and waiting for their closeups.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Willbstar.
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There are no "prequels"... there are no "originals"... there is only one Saga...
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you are exactly the person I pointed out in the email I wrote. Sorry to disappoint, look on the credits I am there, not all my choices. I hope you enjoy the Warners remake or maybe this keeps you away from it and makes you happier.
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Emlodik - thank you for your post, you are the type of smart person that I was writing about, and I appreciate the time you took to write. There was no intended right wing message in killing the adulteress, some scenes were lost where you get to really see who Natalie was (played the wench) and you are supposed to care about her death - also is should be noted that Kamal the electrician had a much bigger part and was supposed...I say supposed to show the difference between the terrorists and other Muslims. Again, it was lost for time and other factors but I felt if we had to go there then we should show a Muslim character who is a real human being and not a stereotype - I obviously lost that fight.
The Belle death scene but we had so much more to it and her relationships with the others that you cared about her so much more. We lost the character build up and they focused on the cheesy story points. The ship was changed as we were mindful of possible lawsuits from cruise operators, that have had some rough going recently and we didn't want a lawsuit. As I said some of the effects were not a highlight for me either.
We got the rights before Warners decided to green light the film version. It was in development there (like many projects) for a very long time. Hopefully, their version is more satisfying for you. We had the rights to the book and not the original movie - changes were made to add a new take on the book, and again some things work out others don't. The film was shot on 35 but the broadcast quality was off, I don't know why. Nothing was awkward about shooting, but we were in a rush to get done first. Unlike the Hallmark Titanic film we didn't plan on releasing it a few weeks before to capitalize on the larger films press, but you can be sure some sort of DVD release will make use of this (as I am no longer at LLP I am not sure about that but it makes sense).
We got rid of Manny because we had too many characters to cover in the lead hero group. Again, there was a good deal of sub plot with her that we lost as well in the cut. Not my call either. The cut aways kill me because the story really has to live in the survivor groups - but we were told to do it and we did. Feel free to ask me anything else, and thank you again.
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Thank you so much for coming onto this board to post insider information about the movie, ssquillante-1, particularly since there are so many negative comments about the film on these threads. I am one of those who did not like the film. Your comments helped me appreciate some additional reasons for some of the problems I saw in it.
As I recently mentioned on another thread here, I think the primary flaw with the film shown on NBC was the lack of character development. For a disaster film to be effective, you have to care about the people involved. Otherwise, what's the point? It didn't bother me when they died and I felt no happiness on behalf of the survivors. Perhaps the longer, four-hour version on DVD will be a welcome improvement over the shortened, network version with commercials broadcast last night.
You're right about remakes and sequels and our flocking to them in large numbers only encourages more of the same. And yet, sometimes they do equal and sometimes surpass the original film.
I will watch the longer version when it becomes available.
It is easier for people like myself to post here and be there to answer questions when the other members of the board are as respectful, thoughtful, fair, and reasonable as your post and others that I have read. In fact it is a pleasure to be able to talk about your comments in a constructive way, I enjoy it, although I don't have the time as often as I would like.
I completely agree with the character comments, and other notes. Thank you for taking the time. Hopefully, the longer version will do the material more justice in your mind. It will air for free on the Hallmark Channel sooner than later.
I also agree that some sequels are very well done, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule.
I honestly wonder why the entire "rescue" sub-plot wasn't deep-sixed rather than the character development scenes. I realize that it's not a lot of running time, but everytime we cut to Dulcet Lines HQ, the Fifth Fleet Command, or at one point a house in Portland, OR, we're removed from the ship and it simply kills the tension. We also learn very little in those scenes that we don't already know, and they didn't feel like they added anything to the overall plot of the movie.
It felt like that time could have been much better spent on some of the scenes that you mentioned were cut.
For that matter, the entire "false" rescue when they get to the blast hole in the food-prep area. That, again, simply adds running time but didn't seem to add much to the story.
And I'll ask again because I don't think it's been answered, why the terrorism angle? Once the ship capsizes, it become almost moot. In fact, other than the fact that they are bizzarly dragging the prisoner around with them, it felt like it added nothing to the movie other than a rather ham-fisted attempt to update it.
We went back and forth on the terrorism vs. wave angle. Terrorism won out for a host of reasons, some good, some obviously not. Again, a great deal of the clarity and tension of having Badawi with them was lost in the edit...there were discussions amongst the group about leaving him to die, why he did what he did and a what I thought was good scene between himself and Kamal that was cut. It cut clunky, the intention was to not be so bland with the change.
John Putch actually did what I thought was the best cut. This picture still has problems, but I though it was far superior to the one the world is seeing.
Again, thank you all for your posts. I wish I had more time to write tonight but I have a dinner I must leave for. I'll try to answer some more questions on Tuesday.
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I wasn't impressed with the movie and share the many complaints that have been raised (and addressed) on here but I do want to say that I appreciate all of the feedback and answers ssquillante-1 has given. The maturity levels on most of these boards are so low I rarely even read them, nevermind comment on them and I'm impressed that ssquillante-1 would even bother addressing the problems for the film and I think it's great that despite so many people giving really poor reviews (and extremely insulting comments on here) that you continue to stand up for the movie you worked on.
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badfish,
I agree.
Ssquillante should be thanked for taking the time to explain it all to the IMDB board.
It's clear there are a LOT of balls in the air when a huge group of people try to make a Movie.
ssq,
Perhaps the problem was too many producers, executive producers, co-producers etc ...
:)
what you needed was a script doctor. Someone who could bring this movie in at 2 hours and make it concise and to the point. As it is it was just too dragged out. The original film got the characters established in the 1st 20-25 minutes and then the disaster and then the escape. Sure they were cardboard characters but they had some great actors to give them life. This new version had terrible characters with cut-rate has-beens and brand new nobodies playing them. Steve &*%^$#@ Guttenberg for heavens sake. If I never saw him again it would have been too soon. The rest of the cast was forgettable too. Parts of the film were a blatant rip-off of the original and the new additions were abysmal. Sorry if this sounds like ranting but this whole "if they hadn`t chopped it up" nonsense pisses me off. I can`t imagine sitting through the 4 or 6 hour versions. Salem`s Lot, Planet of the Apes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory... If it aint broke don`t fix it!!!
shareI agree. I don't think a more lengthy film is the answer. This one stank because it couldn't develop a heart in any amount of time. Shout-outs or rip offs, cheesy tv characters and plots, and a terriorist angle that really contributes nothing to a tale of survival, which is what made Orginal Poseidon so great imo, doesn't make a good film. Even a good TV movie. Having to watch another hour or two of good muslim vs. bad, cheating husband, or any of these idiot cliche things aren't gonna make this thing better.
I was very pissed with this film honestly.It was just tacky in characters, dialogue, sets( I found the orginal much more exciting and other tv ones better), and plot. You threw in shout-outs to connect with fans but no real story. You didn't have to take the orignals root, another theme or something would have been interesting, but you didn't even have that.It was just a mish-mash of fake drama and action.
I also thought the deaths were in no way compelling. You could see them set up with every one.I also thought there was no tension because you didn't have anything to drive them onward, even when the ballroom finally went. Instead you used the cheap Navy thing to try to build it and why the heck would that matter when they aren't on the boat?! They aren't in danger.
And I think as a co-producer( this is addressed to said fellow), despite the form of some of the comments, you shouldn't be getting any praise for being here. You had a hand in this mess and you decided to come here to hear people's thoughts. You don't get praise from me for wanting your ego stroked and for getting it from so many. I also find it extremely annoying that you want to pass off the blame on certain critisms and that you and another gentleman on a different board from the project, are calling people down for daring to lobby complaints.
Despite what you may have wanted done, you as well as the others put this on air or water and it sank. Deal with the reprecussions.
I'm only sorry my first post had to be so damn pissy but this garbage deserves it and it's the thing that angered me enough to post.
Eh, It was alright. Yeah, there were things that didn't work, yeah, some of the acting wasn't...Shall we say...Up to par. But Being a fan of low budget horror films, I'm used to seeing acting and screenwriting that's not entirely up to par. One of my favorite films is George Romero's "Dawn of the Dead". It had a shoestring budget, a cast of people who'd never acted before, and yet I enjoyed the hell out of it, consider it one of the best films I've ever seen, and watch it regularly. Half of the people who've seen it agree with me and enjoy it, the other half think it was stupid and cheesy and low budget. I love the original "Nicht Stalker" series, with Darren McGavin. It's incredibly cheesy, but It's fun. To each his own. This film was an alright way to pass 3 hours. I'll probably end up getting the dvd when it comes out, as I didn't get a chance to see the film in it's entirety.
The presence of Actors like Steve Guttenberg and C. Thomas Howell I actually found myself enjoying. One of the great things about the '72 edition of Poseidon, and the films such as "The Towering Inferno" and "Avalance" and "Earthquake" WAS watching....Not B movie actors, but actors who were recognizable stuck in the disaster situation. Ernest Borgnine, Red Buttons, Jack Albertson, the list goes on and on. Leslie Nielsen is in the original. He's not funny and he dies a half hour in! Irwin Allen gave us Headliners like Gene Hackman, Charlton Heston, Roddy McDowall, and others and wasn't afraid to bump them off at key moments of the movie. We got to watch the likes of Fred Astaire and Robert Vaughn putting appearances in these disaster films...Most of them not surviving to the final reel. I spent much of the remake wondering who of the cast wasn't going to make it to the end. I like Adam Baldwin. Liked him ever since "Full Metal Jacket" and it was nice to see him play my favorite character from the novel, Mike Rogo. And RUTGER FREAKIN' HAUER! He rocks. The rest of the cast did well. Brown, Weller, Howell....Even Guttenberg was alright. My only real dissapointment WAS that more of the names didn't get bumped off, but what the heck.
ssquillante-1, you can't please all of the people all of the time. I took the film for what it was, didn't get overly involved in analyzing things, and had fun watching it. You've at least made one viewer happy. If we overly analyze films, how would we ever enjoy things like "The Mummy" or "Star Wars"? We'd get so lost in pointing out what's CGI and what's not believeable and How is a Mummy out there? and Yoda? What the HELL?
Suspension of Disbelief. I just sat back, watched, waited for the big event and enjoyed watching that big 'ol ship turn over. (VERY well done)
There isn't a film out there that EVERYONE likes. I've seen people diss "Jaws"..."JAWS" for god's sake! It takes a lot of guts to post on these boards amongst a group of lynch-happy posters that you were involved in producing the film. Bravo to you. An enjoyable way to spend a Sunday evening.
"Son, I've seen more dead bodies than you've had TV dinners."-Carl Kolchack
Mr_Blonde3, I know exactly what you're saying. I'm a big fan of "Dawn of the Dead" and the original Night Stalker (no Stuart Townsend) for exactly the same reasons. However...I was still disappointed in this film. To me, there was not much to just "relax and enjoy." The characters and situations were too uninvolving. The highlight of the film for me was Belle's death; very well done. Adam Baldwin was also good.
I do wonder about a few things, though.
1) How did the camera survive going underwater with the boy? Are they waterproof now and I'm just behind the times?
2) More with the surviving terrorist would have been good. I don't think he even spoke after he told Rogo to kill him and Rogo said, "Don't rush me." When Belle was wondering about his motives (or whatever the line was), I wanted to see his reply.
3) They have to go into a smoke-filled room, so naturally the French singer strips off her dress so they can make masks. They could have used clothes off of corpses (if there were any around) or just pull their shirts up over their faces. Didn't someone give her a shirt to wear? Why didn't they just use that? That scene was so 70s Irwin Allen cheesy it was unintentionally humorous.
4) I wonder if the original cut of the film had any religion/faith issues besides the few comments by the bishop about God interceding in human affairs (which were nice, but not especially thought-provoking or emotional)?
5) The scene near the end where the bishop detonated the other bomb seemed like it was meant to make us think he was as good as dead. Not just foreshadowing, it seemed to be a given. But then afterwards, he seems hardly injured at all. That felt odd.
6) How did Rogo pick out two guys that he suspected were the terrorists? He said they were "obvious" but never said why. Then when he shoots one of them as he's about to set the bomb, Rogo says he's going to "find his friend (singular)." How did he know there were any more? And how did he know there was only one more? And on top of all that, he was wrong, because I recall at least four terrorists on the ship. Sounds like a proofreader was needed for the script.
It's not complex. It's called tension. The filmmakers build a claustrophobic sense of story, people who can't stop for a moment because the water floods each deck as they climb. They fight the urge to just give up and collapse from exhaustion, and everyone is at the edge...rogo, preacher, Mrs. Rogo. Even the Red Buttons character mouths off to Rogo a few times.
People place themselves in a film, and decide how they'd react....that's a good film.
Viewers watched this new version and said "shut up...get out of the darn boat"! This version didn't have the isolation of the first "we're cut off from the rest of the world". Heck, the Navy's on the way! No one looked like they were physically and/or mentally pushed to the limit of a disaster. They looked like they just got out of their trailers and wondering if the backstage buffet would have caviar or jumbo shrimp that night.
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great post hipechick. thanks!!!
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No need to go over the top on the nasty hipechick, as I said, I DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE WHOLE MOVIE. Now that i know that the ship was turned over because of a bomb, I can understand how that could be unbelieveable. I didn't get to see what caused it, I merely saw the effect. I Watched for awhile, got busy, then managed to return while the ship was turning over (Even if what caused it was crappy, The actual capsizing still looked good.)
I watch all the old ones. I own "The Satanic Rites of Dracula", and "The Terror", among other bargain-bin buys. The writing is bad, The special effects are bad, and yet I still enjoy them. I'm not going to argue with you that there were problems with the film. I just decided to ignore it. What's the difference if any of us liked it or disliked it anyway? Did we pay to see it? No. Were we cheated out of 8 bucks for a movie ticket? No. You didn't like it. I liked it. Let's shake hands, nod our heads, and leave the battlefield *Offers hand*
"Son, I've seen more dead bodies than you've had TV dinners."-Carl Kolchack
Actually hipechik, ssquillante-1 wasn't a fan offering critism, he's someone who worked on the project and disliked the critism recieved.
And MR_Blonde3, I loved Night of the Living Dead. Good movie. Very creepy.And it's creator's had a vison and point beyond dollars.
We all have individual tastes and preferences but from what you were saying above, you weren't even really tuned into this movie, and that's good sign of a poor suspense/survival film, if you can't stay involved.
It doesn't matter if we payed or not, it's the idea that people can destroy classics( ever see the remake of Night of the Living Dead?) or make a movie without any point, just to sell it. This is what the new Poseidon screams to me.
Hell, even Mummy and Star Wars had something to it. I suck when describing most somethings and I agree plenty of films with camp or crap effects or poor acting have that something, maybe every film has something for different folks
but I'm honestly missing it in this remake. And remakes are a different horse imo. If your taking something already done you have to have a reason. You have to improve on it in some way.
What was so great and unique about this remake to you? What was the improvement to you?
I work in radio. Certain parts of my shift that night were automated (When I was watching) and certain parts weren't (When I wasn't watching). So I didn't have the opportunity to see all of it. I meant to put a tape in, but forgot.
I really don't want to argue, but i will say this. If what you say is true, that remakes need a purpose, other than to cash in, can you explain to me the remakes of so many films nowadays? Are all of those films in need of a remake? There is only one remake I've seen that i think trumps the original, and that is the remake of "Ocean's Eleven" Everything else is alright, but doesn't surpass the original. Neither does this remake of the Poseidon Adventure. I enjoyed it, and it was a nice way to pass the off hours of my work shift, but it wasn't better than the original, nor did I ever say it was. and let's be honest. Most of the remakes put out now don't really improve on the original. They appeal to the kiddie crowd.
I like Adam Baldwin, I like Rutger Hauer. I like to see them in movies, so that made it more interesting for me to watch. I own "L.A.P.D" It's a low-budget movie that Michael Madsen did. He and Dennis Hopper are good, but the rest of the cast (And the film) is pretty much crappy. but i enjoy michael Madsen's movies, and I enjoy watching him onscreen, so I got it anyway.
there's nothing very unique about this movie. But I like disaster films, I've watched pretty much every Irwin allen film he put out (Even the crappy "When Time Ran Out". I have little taste, I'll admit. I just...liked it. I can't put it into words. I know some people didn't, and I'm not trying to sway them. is it so wrong that i watched most of it and thought it was alright? Can I just be allowed to say tha I kind of enjoyed it?
"Son, I've seen more dead bodies than you've had TV dinners."-Carl Kolchack
I think it's perfectly acceptable to like a film and say so, even if the vast majority of people don't agree with you (and I'm not saying that's the case in this instance--not everyone reads and posts on IMDb message boards). Because of all the effort the actors and crew put into this film, I'm sure they're glad to hear that some people did find value in their work. So hold your head high, Mr_Blonde3 and keep on posting.
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MR_ Blonde3, on why there are so many remakes out there lately. Simply money driven imo.
And hey I get watching things for actors. I'm admit to watching Cheaper by the Dozen( the remake) for Tom Welling because I find him pretty.
I don't think anyone is really pissed at people for liking or disliking this film, I was just pissed at the idea that I couldn't critic it or the guy invovled. That my dislikes or others weren't valid and that the explainations given for the things I disliked were crap.