No-one seems to be mentioning...
...what a complete retard Johnny is. He's one of the most dislikable characters I've ever seen on film...
"Wait till they get a load of me!"
...what a complete retard Johnny is. He's one of the most dislikable characters I've ever seen on film...
"Wait till they get a load of me!"
did you not watch the scene where he tries to record the meerkat thing?
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Yeah - he's such a retard he can't even work the VCR... But are you saying that that tiny intended act of decency makes him a nice guy after everything we've seen of him up to then?
"Wait till they get a load of me!"
And I couldn't quite put together why Johnny slammed George on the head with that wrench/ratchet/whatever tool he was holding. Did I miss something? He called George an ass at the beginning of the movie and was never friendly to him, but unless I fell asleep watching or was being a bit dense, I never saw an explanation for this behavior.
shareWait... Johnny hit him? I just watched it and I thought that someone had stashed the tool up on the vent thing and when George put his arms above his head and rested his hands up there, he caused the tool to fall down on his own head?
I didn't see Johnny hit George with anything. I guess it's possible that I blinked and missed it, but I'm not watching this crap again to find out.
tina eat teh ham!
I got the impression Johnny had a lot of anger about how his life has turned out, and his brother is the natural outlet for this anger. There are a number of things that George represents to Johnny that remind him of qualities he probably wishes he had in himself. More importantly, he has the adoration of his mother, which Johnny does not appear to have. Remember her comment at the end of the movie, telling George there there isn't a thing wrong with him? In her eyes, Johnny is probably quite the opposite, and he's bound to realize she feels this way. Having George around seems to remind Johnny of all the things he wishes he was/has, and it brings out his insecurities. However, it also seemed that Johnny was smarter and more perceptive than he let on, obviously noticing the underlying tension in George and Madelaine's relationship--maybe he just wasn't able to articulate his feelings very well. I would guess that Johnny's behavior during George and Madelaine's visit wasn't quite typical for him. There were several comments made that led me to believe he was having a hard time coping with George being back in town.
shareI know it doesn't make up for the way he acted throughout the whole movie but I actually thought it was really sweet when he tried to do tape the meerkat thing for Ashley
shareI don't remember the film ever explaining why he hates George besides the fact that George is a better person and son, and was obviously smarter etc...
Johnny was a semi-retarded *beep* and I feel a little bad that Ashley will probably spend the rest of her fictional life with him...
he probably still loves her but can't express it much and can't get over his own *beep* or accept that he has to be a father with responsibilities...
Did anyone else think he was going to go all crazy violent and kill everybody at the end...
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I do believe Johnny had some decency in him, but he had much trouble expressing it. The taping of the meerkat program, though intended to be a kind gesture, ended in a profane outburst during Ashley's baby shower, so he couldn't even refrain from being an *beep* for the few hours the shower would've taken.
I believe that a lot of it (as someone else mentioned) had to with George's successs, his new, beautiful, refined, intelligent, and un-preagnant bride, and the fact that his homecoming stirred up such a commotion in the Johnsten house. Johnny is the only one who doesn't lift a finger to help prepare the house for their guests.
He truly is an ass, a bit gruff physically (smokes and needs a shave), and a bit slow. Basically, everything his brother is not. He does, however, have a job, and is willing (if not ready) to be a father, he's studying for his GED, and somewhere there is love for his cute little wife. But where's HIS praise? Poor Johnny, with his sub-mediocre achievements, is nothing compared to his brother, and it's evident by his general discomfort from the start, that George's presence is only adding to his already deflated sense of self-worth.
But also worth mentioning are George's little demons. For one, he isn't in town because his sister in-law is ready to give birth, nor to see his family because he (as the mother points out) hasn't been around in three years but because his wife is trying to make a deal with a potential client who happens to live close to his family home, and he's definitely not in town to see his baby brother, Johnny. It's almost as if these sweet, quirky characters are an embarrassment to him, and that's why he left, and the sooner his wife meets them and they get the hell out and stay out, the better. Their visit is a thing of financial convenience but grows into something much more than was expected, and that's where I believe much of the genius of this movie begins.
I think actually that Johnny is the more sympathetic of the brothers, for me. He seems a lot more real and a lot less glib than George. But perhaps it's mostly because I couldn't stand George's character so much. It seems the only interaction he has with Madeline is when they're having sex, and he leaves her to try to connect with his family members on her own. Also, he's hypocritical when he's telling Madeline that "family matters." She was ready to go to the hospital with the rest, and it's only because Peg practically shoved her away that she didn't go. Like the last poster said, it's not as if he came to town because his sister-in-law is ready to give birth. And if family matters so much, why doesn't he actually try to say something to his brother, that he is proud of him or _something_ ? It seems to me that most people in the movie, like Ashley, assume the best of him just because he moves easily among people.
Also, and perhaps this should be the subject of a new thread, was anyone disturbed by the way Ashley was taking care of herself during the pregnancy? She wasn't taking any vitamins, was barely eating, but doing lots of physical activity. Maybe I'm out of touch though...
Also, and perhaps this should be the subject of a new thread, was anyone disturbed by the way Ashley was taking care of herself during the pregnancy? She wasn't taking any vitamins, was barely eating, but doing lots of physical activity. Maybe I'm out of touch though...
yes!! while i did feel bad for her loss...at the same time i wasn't too shocked she lost the baby, seeing as how there was no pre natal care. dieting while pregnant? NO. carrying heavy things and excessive excersise? NO! but i still feel bad, even then because her character is pretty young (still a teen?) and where the freak is her guidance? we were living with my in laws when i was pregnant, and while i had the sense to eat while i was pregnant, if i was trying to diet during my pregnancy my mother in law would have told me that was dangerous and stupid. not to be mean, i did like her character, and i felt sympathy for her. also, it really pissed me off when she said she was dieting while pregnant because johnnny hates it when she is heavy...uh, people gain weight when they are flippin pregnant!!! the thing that upsets me about that most, is i hear people in my real life, comment about how fat women get when they are pregnant...uh, THEY ARE PREGNANT!!! of course they will gain weight a$$ holes!!! i have friends that are so paranoid about gaining pregnancy weight and such, and it's ridiculous. i feel bad for them. it's such a beautiful experience, it shouldn't be poisoned by people being cruel and stupid.
yes!! while i did feel bad for her loss...at the same time i wasn't too shocked she lost the baby, seeing as how there was no pre natal care. dieting while pregnant? NO. carrying heavy things and excessive excersise? NO!It's almost supernatural that the human race has been able to thrive and multiply considering prenatal vitamins are a fairly recent invention. And I doubt that pregnant women throughout the millenia were able to get enough rest, avoid excessive exercise, and get enough nourishing food to eat considering the poverty and rural lifestyle of so many (i.e. farming chores, etc.). It's truly a miracle that mankind has survived so far.....
A lot of baby boomers' moms smoked and/or drank while pregnant. It didn't seriously affect the birth rates.
I seem to remember that Ashley didn't seem to want to see a doctor.I don't know if she was superstitious or whether there was some other reason.
And Ashley specifically said the exercises she was doing were ones she could do during her pregnancy; I assume she'd found them in a magazine. She wasn't jumping up and down or digging ditches.
Honour thy parents. They were hip to the groove too once you know.
I agree with lkwolf. I think Johnny's poor behavior stems from feeling inferior and trapped.
His family makes a big deal out of George, the brother who hasn't been in touch for 3 years. (I have seen that happen so many times, especially with aging parents. The son or daughter who has left town and is never in touch is the Golden Child who can do no wrong, while the son or daughter who is present and caring for the parents, shouldering all the work, has to listen to how wonderful the absent sibling is.) No wonder Johnny feels resentment toward George.
Johnny's also about to become a father when he is neither ready nor willing.
If George is so adamant that "family matters", why the heck has he been MIA for 3 years? Why did he keep himself apart and let Madeline fend for herself getting acquainted with his family? And why did he discourage Madeline from visiting Ashley? She could have done that on their way out of town, it wouldn't have taken that long, and it would have made Ashley's day.
And then on their way out of town, he does a flip-flop, saying how glad he is to be leaving.
Johnny was a bit of a jerk but George was a jerk, too, albeit in a different way.
He's a very troubled and complex character with flaws like us all. He was also selfish, and disrespectful.
I liked Johnny. Not at first, but by the end of the movie, definitely. He's just a highly repessed Southern redneck type who never made it through high school, can't get a job, lives with his parents in a tiny house, and is extremely frustrated and trapped. But he obviously really loves Ashley -- goes out of his way to try to surpirse her with the meerkat video, runs around like a mad man when he hears she is in labor, goes into abject frustration when the baby dies, and then shows he really wanted the kid by saying we could try again sometime.
I think he's a cool character living in an uncomfortable situation.
Plus, Ben Makenzie is an awesome actor.
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Cool? Tiny house? That house was 4 times the size of the house I grew up in. Also, he has a job. Being at his job was the only time we saw him show any signs of enjoying anything. Being frustrated and trapped with little opportunities... all things of his own making. Being jealous of his brother (if that's indeed what is going on) is just another sign of how emotionally stunted and immature he is. Leaving your wife in labor to go smoke cigarettes... the guy has few if any redeeming qualities. That said, he's probably the most realistic of all of them. I know many guys that are like him, including myself at one point in time.
You saw Dingleberries?
You’ve summed them up nicely, all things I disliked about the Johnny character.
I came especially to check imdb whether I was the only one who disliked him so much.
Nor did George really make a good impression, I thought he was quite a little hypocrite.
Very nice job by Amy Adams. She’s simple, but you can’t help but love her.
I agree. I don't think he intends to be a jerk, he just is a bit socially awkward. He doesn't know quite how to express himself and this often results in him hurting others, even if he doesn't intend to. I started off really hating him but by the end it became evident that he tried, and the little things, even if they didn't work out, contributed a lot to my final opinion.
And yes, Ben McKenzie is a brilliant actor and so underrated.
I feel Johnny resented being married and about to become a father. He could hardly stand for her to touch him, and when he was working on the paper with Madeline he said he didn't get to go to Washington when he was in 12th. grade. So, be was probably already married when he was in his senior year. I felt sorry for him because of this. He was a kid who wasn't ready for the responsibility of being a husand and father.
shareI have to admit I didn't really understand this character's motivations at all. He definitely was the most enigmatic of all the characters in the film. What a disappointment the whole thing was anyway. No one from North Carolina talks like these people. I know that the south is an easy target but I wish that someone would quit stereotyping us all into the category of inbred, Biblethumping ignoramuses in nearly every Hollywood film.
I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.
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You're awfully pretentious for someone who has a Bible verse at the end of their post. You seem to think because you have some sort of special knowledge or saw some sort of 'deeper meaning' in this film that I apparently missed, that you're superior to me yet you don't take the time to elaborate on this in your post.
Please refrain from talking down to others simply because they do not like a particular film and you did. What more could I expect though from someone who obviously thinks of themselves as Christian but doesn't act like one, but this is not unusual - "I've met people who act like that" all the time.
I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.
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I never said that no one from the south acts that way and yes, vast amounts of stereotypes exist for the south, particularly in Hollywood's eyes...Everyone from the south is seen as dense, dumb, inbred, overly religious, uneducated, etc. as far as they are concerned.
I wasn't talking down to you and by the way, two wrongs don't make a right so please discontinue your posturing.
I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.
I'm happy that most people can at least EMPATHIZE with Johnny.
It's not uncommon to see this in families: Johnny feels unfairly snubbed by his parents, compared to George. His reaction is destructive, yes.
But in simplest terms: BOTH sons were flawed, and capable of being distant, un-feeling and insensitive. But in different ways.
None of the characters are perfect. Just like real life.
Look at Johnny at work. He is a completely different person there. He is happy there. Seeing him at work, we can understand why Ashley married him.Most people would see it as a boring, dead-end job, but he thinks it's a great job. Johnny does not require a lot to be happy. He just has to be away from his mother.Johnny grew up with his mother constantly comparing him to his perfect older brother, and of course, he could not duplicate George's successes. Finally, he seems to have just given up.None of that was George's fault, but having George around reminds Johnny of his failures,* most recently that he cannot provide a home for his wife, and aggravates the situation of being stuck back with his mother.Before you judge Johnny, imagine what it must of been like for him growing up with that mother always preferring his older brother. And George is special. There is no way Johnny could have equaled him, and any good mother would have understood that.We only get that one brief glimpse of Johnny outside of his family, and it is a revelation. Johnny is basically a happy person. He has a completely different personality away from his family.* The dramatic failure that occurs in the film is Johnny's inability to stay with and comfort his wife after the death of the baby. George succeeds in doing what Johnny should have done but cannot. That is why Johnny hits George. In Johnny's mind, George has shown him up as a failure once again._______________For easy markup see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/42255
share"We only get that one brief glimpse of Johnny outside of his family, and it is a revelation."
I agree that that was a VERY telling scene. The meerkat scene showed that he did actually care about and like Ashley. But the work scene to me showed how much just being around the family, that in itself smothered the brothers into silence. George, too. As soon as he gets there -- he immediately withdraws, hides in the basement, wanders around the backyard and leaves his wife to totally fend for herself.
I'm not sure why exactly...probably a combo of things...the dad's style seemed to be silence, very masked feelings and only subtle moments of trying to fix/alleviate things although never being able to actually be upfront about it. The mom was very humorless, deadpan and has that kind of subdued defensiveness and suspiciousness...sharp in the sense of reading others and as if waiting for some kind of insult. So overall...it is relatable. Being around family brings up all the pain of our upbringings, which these two evidently had. And when you're around family, you just fall right back into the old patterns...didn't seem like it was a communicative, warm household ever. It was like a suffocating blanket, and both brothers were smothered in it when in the house. Unfortunately for Johnny, he LIVES there and hasn't been able to really get fresh air and grow into his own like George had.
And undoubtedly, he resents George for ditching him behind, becoming so distant. I can relate to this part very much. They were in the same boat, growing up in that family, and George basically ditches him. And Johnny is stuck. Not to mention, yes George was probably the favorite, golden boy type thing so that bothers Johnny as well. I'm sure I'm bringing my own baggage in, but I mostly read his anger to his brother to be resentment and hurt for him just ditching them behind, as if he's better...and just going out of touch. I feel like Johnny's extra depression since high school (like Ashley mentioned) was probably after George left ... and there he was ... stuck, by himself, feeling abandoned and trapped.
And then, here George comes home and they still basically kiss his ass (in the subdued way they do everything). there's no real moment of reckoning for how he's dropped out of touch for three years. That in itself pissed ME off, so I would imagine this just adds to Johnny's pain/resentment as well. I totally understood throwing the wrench in his face, LOL.
Yes. You said it perfectly.
I'm a rare combination of French film buff and thug.
blacknyellowsquid wrote:
They were in the same boat, growing up in that familyIf you want to use that metaphor, then George was the first mate who is expected to become Captain, and Johnny was the guy who swabs the deck. George must've been a star all along, and there is no way that Johnny could live up to his example. Of course the mother preferred George, and I'm sure she made it quite obvious.This is an old, old story that happens all the time and always will. It tends to produce extreme, long-lasting emotions. Cain killed Abel because "Daddy" preferred Abel['s offering]. Someone wrote that God disobeyed the first rule of parenting, that you have to treat all your children the same way. The mother certainly disobeyed it.
he resents George for ditching him behindI think Johnny is much happier when George is not there, and his presence is not reminding Johnny of all his failures.I believe Johnny hits George after he comforted Ashley in the hospital because, once again, George has succeeded and Johnny has failed.For easy markup in Firefox & Opera, see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/42255 share
I agree with ppllkk about Peg. She clearly favored George.
"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"
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