It's a TV show so maybe he won't be but that beating was brutal. All he had to do was knock the guy out but he went full beast mode and he can get an attempted murder charge the way he beat DeLuca.
shareGrey's won't let him lose his job. If we're going by reality standards then Mer, the chief, Mer's mom, Bailey, and many others should have lost their jobs as well.
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"Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, darling."
He should get jail time too
sharewith his history of multiple traumas beginning in childhood? he and meredith are on the same trauma level, the difference is that she's had help, been loved by stable people, had a home. with a good lawyer, expert psychological testimony he could walk with probation, community service and mandatory therapy and keep his job which he will need to pay out on the civil suit which he would lose. criminally, given his history, his responsibility and mental status at the time is questionable but he'll owe deluca every penny he's ever earned and then some.
being normal is not necessarily a virtue... It rather denotes a lack of courage!
On this show, Izzie cut a patient's LVAD wire and didn't lose her job. Enough said.
shareI mean Owen just pushed another doctor out on the hospital grounds last year so Im not sure he should immediately be fired.
They seem to let a lot go in that hospital.
Wrong Owen punched a man ONCE that is a big difference that is a BIG difference then beating someone within an inch of there life.
shareIf you're comparing Alex' actions and Owen you'd have to compare Owen's choking Christina and not the fight between Owen and Riggs.
being normal is not necessarily a virtue... It rather denotes a lack of courage!
Again not a good comparison because Owen was in a PTSD nightmare/flashback when he choked Christina and had NO control of it. Alex made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to beat the crap out of someone.
shareDon't break out the caps lock over a fictional character but in my opinion, as written Alex has PTSD, has endured major, multiple traumas beginning in early childhood and continuing into adulthood. His ACE score would be at least 8 and a score of 9 or 10 is implied. A score of 4 or 5 is considered high for trauma. But even dismissing his childhood, as an adult a girlfriend had a psychotic break (like his mother), his wife got cancer and then left him, his abusive addict father re-enters his life and then dies, he nearly loses everyone who cares about him in a plane crash he should have been in and has to cut off the leg of the woman who took his place, his mentor and friend, he was shot in a mass shooting incident and operated on without anesthesia, he had to commit his brother after his brother had a psychotic break and attempted to kill his sister... All things being equal if we're applying real world logic then Alex is absolutely written as trauma reactive- has difficulty controlling/regulating emotion among many other symptoms. As a therapist who can't sleep and really isn't emotionally invested in being right but I'm up, the comparison between Owen's PTSD and Alex's impulsive, excessive reaction is appropriate. But if you feel strongly enough about it to break out the caps lock then ok.
being normal is not necessarily a virtue... It rather denotes a lack of courage!
You seem much more emotional invested in this then I seeing as you went into a 5-10 minute explanation as to why you feel that Alex has PTSD. I mean if you think it is wrong to stress a point about a fictional character then is there really a point in spending that much time discussing fictional characters mental health. This is a forum for the discussion of a tv show with fictional characters. Is that really such a hard concept for you to grasp?
sharediscussing characters and shows is literally the point of this website.
like go somewhere else if you don't want to see people discuss characters and their psyches.
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"Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, darling."
Umm ya. You might want to reread what I wrote. That is EXACTLY what I said. I was called out for using caps when discussing these people because they were "fictional characters" The first part of my thread was discussing how hypocritical the person was and the second part of my post was explaining that is the purpose of the thread(to discuss the show and its characters)
shareI must apologize. The way I read the thread was that you were calling out the person for writing a long analysis of Alex's psyche and that's why I responded the way I did. Because I've written long messages and threads about characters and their actions and behaviors only to have people shut me down for doing so so I got a bit defensive there. I do apologize for that.
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"Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, darling."
Jferg01-I expressed an opinion, you disagreed which is fine, expected, not uncommon but you did it rudely in my opinion and that's not at all necessary. Your subsequent responses have been no less rude. FYI: took me about a minute and a half to write my post, that it took 5 -10 minutes for some to read is not an indication of my investment.
being normal is not necessarily a virtue... It rather denotes a lack of courage!
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Lovely sentiment. I have absolutely no obligation to respond to you or anyone else in this venue as I would with a patient.
being normal is not necessarily a virtue... It rather denotes a lack of courage!
Alex does not have PTSD. Alex was in control when he beat DeLuca. Owen was not. It was like a dream state. Alex may have issues but he was awake and able to stop himself. What Alex was doing was out of Anger. This has honestly changed the way I look at Alex entirely. And yes I realize this is fiction (There is always that one person who likes to point out the obvious).
shareAlex does have PTSD - whether or not is was what caused him to snap like that is another issue entirely. But it is very clear that both he and Mer DO have PTSD.
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Having issues and having PTSD are two completely different things. Alex and Meredith may be messed up, but the do not in any way have PTSD. They may not know how to make very good decisions, but they are in control. PTSD is an actual psychological disorder. When having an episode the person is mentally not where they are physically. It's like sleep walking. Like when Owen was strangling Cristina. He was in her bedroom with his arms around her neck but, in his mind he was in Iraq in combat. Alex saw DeLuca and acted out of Anger, but his mind was still in the present situation. He may not have been thinking clearly, but he was all there.
shareAlex saw a woman he loved who hr thought was being raped. Alex has a strong history of not letting women get attacked by someone stronger than they are. He may not have been 100% in the present, he lost his focus. What he did was wrong, but he still could have PTSD
shareOkay, from someone that does have PTSD - they do have PTSD.
THere's no way you come out of child abuse, neglect, having to save your mother's life, near death experiences, shootings, loss of loved ones, etc. without some scars. It is clear that they do have PTSD and go through the motions a lot of times at work. Especially in Meredith. PTSD isn't just flashbacks. It's sleeplessness, short temper, inability to develop close relationships with people, etc.
You claim a PSTD episode is not being there mentally when you're there physically and that's just not true. That's ONE SYMPTOM of PTSD and not everyone experiences those "out of body" episodes when having PTSD. There are many, many symptoms and focusing on ONE doesn't mean there aren't many others present.
Owen had PTSD because of the war. PTSD in vetrans is vastly different than PTSD in abuse, rape, or trauma victims.
No one is saying Alex was on a PTSD "episode" when he attacked DeLuca. I'm saying it's clear he does have PTSD. Maybe his short fuse is caused by PTSD and that's what aided his attack. Personally I don't think so. But you cannot erase the other symptoms of PTSD by focusing on one (or by putting a gloss of a vetrans experience over other victims of trauma)
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When having an episode the person is mentally not where they are physically. It's like sleep walking.
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I think it's clear that you don't know what PTSD is.
shareAre you kidding me right now?
Re-experiencing the trauma through intrusive distressing recollections of the event, flashbacks, and nightmares.
Emotional numbness and avoidance of places, people, and activities that are reminders of the trauma.
Increased arousal such as difficulty sleeping and concentrating, feeling jumpy, and being easily irritated and angered.
(according to the ADAA)
Intrusive memories
Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:
Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event
Avoidance
Symptoms of avoidance may include:
Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event
Negative changes in thinking and mood
Symptoms of negative changes in thinking and mood may include:
Negative feelings about yourself or other people
Inability to experience positive emotions
Feeling emotionally numb
Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed
Hopelessness about the future
Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event
Difficulty maintaining close relationships
Changes in emotional reactions
Symptoms of changes in emotional reactions (also called arousal symptoms) may include:
Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior
Always being on guard for danger
Overwhelming guilt or shame
Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast
Trouble concentrating
Trouble sleeping
Being easily startled or frightened
(the mayo clinic)
I seen countless psychologists and psychiatrists for these issues over the last six years of my life. I think I god damn know what PTSD is and what the symptoms are. Unless you're just an ignorant garbage bag who believes that only war vets can experience PTSD. you would be a garbage bag for that, but at least you wouldn't be alone considering far, far too many people share the same false belief.
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Exactly. Doing something (like choking someone) in a dissociative state is no different then doing something to someone while you are sleep walking. A person who is in a dissociative state does not know or understand what they are doing or why they are doing it. That is why they can't be held accountable. Alex knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. He saw something that made him angry and acted in anger. That is very different then being in a flashback and attacking someone unprovoked. If he tries to use his past as an excuse for his bad behavior then it is just that, an excuse!
shareOwen also punched a guy in the face who was wrecking havoc in the ER. Tried to strangle Christina, got it to it with Riggs
sharePretty much if this were real life, every single character on this show would have been at least fired by this point. Richard, Bailey, Mer, Izzy would surely have been, Arizona could have lost her license for disclosing patient information, etc. etc. etc. not to mention what happened with Bailey's husband and the big scandal of him cutting that woman open to deliver her baby. They've all broken the law at numerous times or at least crossed lines that would have gotten them fired or sued in any realistic world. But this isn't real life. This is Grey's, and the characters always come out on top.
Alex is going to get off. He'll have a good lawyer who'll get him out of any legal penalities aside for maybe having to pay Deluca for damages, etc. He will also not be fired because the hospital is his home and where he's been since the start. Shondra will probably write him in as being placed on probation of some such thing and then all will return to normal and be forgotten about by the season finale.
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"Chaos is what killed the dinosaurs, darling."
He punched those people once, not that he shouldn't gotten some punishment, and he was in a dream state when he tried to strangle Cristina. There is a big difference between punching someone once to get them to stop what they are doing, like what Owen did to the violent patient in the ER, and beating someone nearly to death, disabling them, and hindering any chance of them continuing their chosen career. Alex should get prison time for this.
shareIf Karev though his girlfriend was being assaulted, then wouldn't he have the right to protect her? When he walked in, wasn't the dude on top of her and she was crying hysterically?
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Was that Crying or laughingg? Camilla is such a horrible actress its hard to tell. And it looks so much like shes being assaulted you know since Deluca has all his clothes on and shes yelling at Alex to stop hitting him.
Alex is a moron.
She was laughing, but he could have thought she was crying
shareHe had the right to throw him off him, maybe even hit him once or twice, but that's it... he went too over, and anyone who doesn't see that, should look in the mirror because clearly they've got issues that are blinding them to something this obvious.
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I think Alex has to answer for some of his actions. He did overreact and could have handled things differently, that said he is still responsible. But Stephanie should not have pawned Jo off to Delucca, Jo should have been honest about something Alex would understand. Yes Alex has a history of violence in his life and has been an instigator in many. Some which were provoked and others where he did not initiate the fight. 1 was George going after him for the Syphilis and 2. When Jackson went after him on the April thing. He should not of beaten up Shane to the extent he did, and it was lucky Mer and Christina were there, but he told Shane several times to walk away, Shane didn't listen. Alex's brother continuely pushed Alex over leaving his Cancer wife. Both Jackson, Alex and others went after each other when the I Saw what I saw episode, so both had shared responsibility. Derek and Mark had their share of fights and Derek got beat up pretty bad over misunderstandings or wrong place, wrong time. This time there was no one to stop him. Jo was not in a position to do that. All other times es each fights characters had on the show had someone to step in and stop the fight, except for this one.
shareWhat Karev did was extremely stupid. He has zero valid excuses. He has grown tremendously as a surgeon. But on the other levels... not so much. He's still an immature and dumb little brat who acts before he thinks. What he did to Andrew was terrible and it cannot be justified. He deserves some jail time and he needs to assume the consequences of his actions.
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