MovieChat Forums > Watchmen (2009) Discussion > Only Nite Owl and Rorschach were likeabl...

Only Nite Owl and Rorschach were likeable and appealing


I challenge anyone to prove the opposite.

I mean, just think of it, everyone else is an idiot or sadist or sucker:
- Comedian: rapist aside, anyone whom calmly shoots a woman pregnant with his own seed dead is evil to the core. So don't try to later retcon him into a sorry clown because he got teary eyed after discovering Adrian's plan (he sure didn't seem that distraught when joking about how Adrian was the smartest man in the cinder).
- Silk Spectre: pathetic failure whom never got over her pinup past and her taste for jerks (the Comedian). The incarnation of everything every feminist on Earth would despise.
- Her daughter: stupid enough to think Doctor Manhattan will bother to help them. All she got by bringing him along was ensuring Adrian would be protected (he killed Rorschach)
- Adrian: do I have to say anything? May as well apologize for Hitler
- Doctor Manhattan: just like Superman, a super powerful IDIOT whom can be manipulated like a puppy and clearly never gave two craps about anything besides himself.

While the other two:
- Nite Owl: while an impotent Batman reject, at least he gives a crap about helping people and for what's right, not for what's convenient. It's telling he's Rorschach's only true friend.
- Rorschach: while sociopathic and sick, he's the ONLY ONE who knows the value of integrity, and while everyone else lived like cowards, he died like a man.

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I agree. Not too much a fan of Night Owl but Rorschach is NY favorite. It seemed like everyone else was on heavy government drugs while he was awake. The Comedian was the same way but the difference is the Comedian reacted by being an aweful everything. Rorschach reacted by trying to wake the others up, so that's admirable.

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Rorschach is my favorite character, but I wouldn't use the words "likable" or "appealing" for him. He's as much a nut case as the Comedian, just in a different way. Yes, he has a strong sense of justice, but there was really no gray area for him, and in life, there are gray areas.

And while I absolutely HATED Malin Akerman as Laurie, I don't think it's fair to hate the character for having faith in Manhattan. She knew he was capable of stopping Adrian if he wanted. Maybe she didn't want to truly believe that he really just didn't care anymore.

Adrian is by far the worst of them all, easy. I was so pissed that he got to live in the end.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

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Loved Rorschach. Very cool, comlpex character.
Nite Owl not so much. He seemed a bit of a loser.
Comedian was interesting and disgusting at the same time.
Dr. mahattan was creepy.
Adrian... Was he gay?
The ladies were rather underdeveloped characters.

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while an impotent Batman reject

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I challenge anyone to prove the opposite.


OK. Challenge accepted.

I mean, just think of it, everyone else is an idiot or sadist or sucker:
- Comedian: rapist aside, anyone whom calmly shoots a woman pregnant with his own seed dead is evil to the core. So don't try to later retcon him into a sorry clown because he got teary eyed after discovering Adrian's plan (he sure didn't seem that distraught when joking about how Adrian was the smartest man in the cinder).


Agreed.

- Silk Spectre: pathetic failure whom never got over her pinup past and her taste for jerks (the Comedian). The incarnation of everything every feminist on Earth would despise.


Agreed.


- Her daughter: stupid enough to think Doctor Manhattan will bother to help them. All she got by bringing him along was ensuring Adrian would be protected (he killed Rorschach)


Well she was right. Doctor Manhattan did help them.

- Adrian: do I have to say anything?


Yes. Plenty in fact.


May as well apologize for Hitler


Wrong. Hitler wasn't trying to save the world. Adrian was trying to save the world and he *did*.

- Doctor Manhattan: just like Superman, a super powerful IDIOT whom can be manipulated like a puppy and clearly never gave two craps about anything besides himself.


Wrong. He is *not* an idiot. Yes he is easily manipulated and he grows tired of that.

While the other two:
- Nite Owl: while an impotent Batman reject, at least he gives a crap about helping people and for what's right, not for what's convenient. It's telling he's Rorschach's only true friend.


Agreed.

- Rorschach: while sociopathic and sick, he's the ONLY ONE who knows the value of integrity, and while everyone else lived like cowards, he died like a man.


Not quite. He died because he is incapable of accepting the new utopia that Adrian has created. The others can.

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"Well she was right. Doctor Manhattan did help them"

How? All he did was to kill Rorschach. How exactly did he help anyone BUT Adrian?

"Yes. Plenty in fact."

He killed millions of people. Need to say more? Far more than Hitler and Stalin combined.

"Hitler wasn't trying to save the world. Adrian was trying to save the world and he *did*. "
- He said so in Mein Kamp (save the western/white world from the Jews) and in countless speeches.
- How did Adrian save the world? He killed more people than an actual war would have (had he done nothing, Manhattan would have been tasked by Nixon to head off any Russian counterattack, thus nuclear war would NOT have happened). His excuse of "killing millions to save billions" is predicated on the worst possible outcome that negates the reality that USA nukes outnumbered Russian ones several times over and had a demigod on the payroll.

"He is *not* an idiot. Yes he is easily manipulated and he grows tired of that"
If you're easily manipulated (and when realizing it side with whom played you) you ARE an idiot.

"He died because he is incapable of accepting the new utopia that Adrian has created. The others can"
Wrong, the others realize that they are helpless and powerless once Manhattan sides with Adrian and anything except surrender will ensure their demise while changing nothing, as Rorschach CLEARLY demonstrated. They didn't accept anything but defeat, not this BS utopia.

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How? All he did was to kill Rorschach. How exactly did he help anyone BUT Adrian?


By making sure no one else was killed.

He killed millions of people.


About 4 million I would say.

Need to say more? Far more than Hitler and Stalin combined.


Hitler was responsible for the deaths of at least 11 million people if not 46 million people.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-did-Hitler-kill

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of 40 million people.

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789

46 million + 40 million = 86 million. 4 million is way less than 86 million. So you are either a liar or you just can not add. Pick one.

He said so in Mein Kamp (save the western/white world from the Jews) and in countless speeches.


Hitler lied. Jews were not a threat to the world.

How did Adrian save the world? He killed more people than an actual war would have (had he done nothing, Manhattan would have been tasked by Nixon to head off any Russian counterattack, thus nuclear war would NOT have happened).


Nuclear War would still happen, and billions die. Adrian states that even if Manhattan stops 99 % of Russia's nukes the 1 % would still kill everyone.


His excuse of "killing millions to save billions" is predicated on the worst possible outcome that negates the reality that USA nukes outnumbered Russian ones several times over and had a demigod on the payroll.


No Russia has more nukes than USA that is stated.

If you're easily manipulated (and when realizing it side with whom played you) you ARE an idiot.


No you are someone who doesn't take responsibility for their own actions, or someone with low self esteem.

Wrong, the others realize that they are helpless and powerless once Manhattan sides with Adrian and anything except surrender will ensure their demise while changing nothing, as Rorschach CLEARLY demonstrated. They didn't accept anything but defeat, not this BS utopia.


In accepting defeat they *also* accept the Adrian's utopia.

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"By making sure no one else was killed. "

You mean before or after Adrian killed millions? Like saying Bush kept USA safe after 9/11...

"About 4 million I would say."

In the movie, the world's major cities are destroyed (not just NYC). That's way more than 4 million. Mexico City for example alone has 20 million. The tv screens show at least 5 world capitals. That's like 80+ million people killed.

And your quota quote for giving Hitler 46 million kills is absurd. By that spaghetti logic the USA should be blamed for all the kills from the Khmer Rouge and ISIS (both emerged after a USA war led clusterfock).

"Hitler lied. Jews were not a threat to the world"

He sure believed it (can't fool that many people without fooling yourself first).

"No Russia has more nukes than USA that is stated."

BS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_gap, The USSR never had more nukes than the USA. Whenever that was said it was a blatant lie to fuel public support for arms race.

"No you are someone who doesn't take responsibility for their own actions, or someone with low self esteem."

Stretching the meaning of idiot to meaninglessness.

"In accepting defeat they *also* accept the Adrian's utopia"

BS, like saying blacks "accepted" their slavery or that the Jews "accepted" the Holocaust. Being powerless doesn't equate being in agreement.

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In the movie, the world's major cities are destroyed (not just NYC). That's way more than 4 million. Mexico City for example alone has 20 million. The tv screens show at least 5 world capitals. That's like 80+ million people killed.


More like 20 million = 4 million * 5 cities.

BS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_gap, The USSR never had more nukes than the USA. Whenever that was said it was a blatant lie to fuel public support for arms race.


Not in *their* earth: because of the existence of Dr. Manhattan, the US deliberately didn't develop nukes, again that is *stated* in the movie.

Stretching the meaning of idiot to meaninglessness.


Wrong.

BS, like saying blacks "accepted" their slavery or that the Jews "accepted" the Holocaust. Being powerless doesn't equate being in agreement.


Wrong again. They *agree* to accepting the utopia, they do not like it too much but they do *accept* it.

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Likable? Rorschach?? He's the best character, yes, but likable? He's a sociopath.

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Adrian: do I have to say anything? May as well apologize for Hitler
Wow. You really have no understanding of the character.

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Wow. You really have no understanding of the character.


No he doesn't. In all fairness he doesn't understand much of anything in this movie.

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