How come none of them went on to College or NFL fame? Doesn't that mean they were small and average players? Does that mean that at High School level, even state champions are not fully formed athletes like college, which is really the pros training ground.
shareSo, would you call a team full of D1 prospects a "great team" or a "team full of great players"? Success at the team level is never defined by talent alone.
Although Permian has always had a good showing of kids going to play at the collegiate level, the main reason they are respected so highly is because they had so much success without having a team full of bluechip kids every year. They lived and died by the "team" mentality. Eleven cylinders of the engine, each one executing perfectly.
Let me put it in perspective for you... when I was a sophomore, I was 5'10" and about 240 lbs (I ended up being about 6'4" and 280 lbs). Even as a sophomore, I was the biggest kid in the program, JV or varsity (I ended up injured before sophomore season and didn't play again). We won the state title that year, and again when I was a senior. There wasn't a starting player on either title-winning team over 230 pounds. Each playoff game, the D-line was outweighed by 40-50 pounds per man, and the papers would tout that like crazy... and Permian would still win. It never came down to talent, Permian just worked harder. Their plays were executed to exact precision in practice. They didn't do anything special, no tricks or "razzle-dazzle". My favorite quote concerning them came from one of the district opponent's coaches, who said "We know exactly what they're going to do, and we still cannot stop it".
Permian was always the better-conditioned team. There was never any doubt. Their offseason program was (and is) one of the best in the nation. One of the main characters from the book, Jerrod McDougal (he was left out of the movie), was "Mojo" personified. He was 5'9", 180 lbs, and started on the O-line. Nobody worked harder than Jerrod. He knew he wasn't D1 material, and knew that high school football was probably all he would ever see... and this made him work harder.
Sure, great players would come and go (Daryl "Moose" Hunt, Britt Hager, Lloyd Hill, Roy Williams, etc.), but Permian never relied on one superstar at all.
I've coached many years since then, and I'll stick by the mantra that I'd rather have eleven average players on the same page and executing well than 1 superstar and a supporting band of fools.
That's interesting, thanks. But I think I was asking, how can a team that produces several state championships not place any guys on big NCAA teams? Is it just size? In other words, no matter how much you train at the HS level, if you are not big AND fast, you can't even play division one college. That seems odd to me, a state champion, but no big time college players... none? I still don't get it.
shareAre you speaking of Permian in general, or that particular team (1988)?
There were actually two D1 stars on the 1988 squad, both were juniors that year. Stoney Case (played at U of New Mexico, set pretty much every passing record they had before a career in the NFL with the Baltimore Ravens and Cardinals) and Lloyd Hill (set receiving records at Texas Tech before a brief career in the CFL). Ivory Christian went on to play for TCU for a brief period, but did not graduate from there.
Yeah, I meant that team in the film, no one went on to a big college career and I didn't know why, as some of them seemed good enough. I mean, there are only 50 states, so the champions of those states must have the best players right? Or is it more like if they played for a national championship, they would have lost to a lot of other states, and those states are the ones that place all the big players.
shareJust because the team won the state championship, doesn't mean they were stacked with D1 caliber players. Football is a team sport. But even if they were full of talent, that doesn't mean that those players who were stars on their high school team would automatically be stars on their college teams that are full of players who were high school stars, in their own right.
And yes, there are only 50 states, but their are multiple state champions from every state. They play in divisions, based on size. 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, & 5A. Illinois is at least one state I know of that goes up to 7A. That means Illinois alone has SEVEN state champions. That's a lot of good players.
One of the big points of Friday Night Lights, book and movie, was their drive. It didn't matter that their team didn't have the best players in the state. They won because they had to. They played for Permian. It was their will and determination, more than their talent.
That's interesting, thanks. But I think I was asking, how can a team that produces several state championships not place any guys on big NCAA teams? Is it just size? In other words, no matter how much you train at the HS level, if you are not big AND fast, you can't even play division one college. That seems odd to me, a state champion, but no big time college players... none? I still don't get it.
Some of the greatest high school football players ever never did jack spit in college because of things out of their control. Sometimes it may size (coaches care about that a little too much if you ask me), homesickness, competition, etc.
I went to school with a guy who shared and took some carries from Reggie Bush in high school at Helix named Derrell Hutsona. To this day he has not made as much of a blip on the radar screen in college ball because of grades and lack of desire to play football anymore.
Boobie Miles would have been a D1 star if not for his injury as well , possibly an NFL Star ..
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The difference between high school football (especially in the smaller divisions) and D1 college ball is about the difference between running a small buisness and being the CEO of a major corproation. SO winning a high school state title is impressive but simple work ethic may not be enough to get you D1.
Think of it this way. Say you are a RB who is undersized and a step slow. But you are smart enough to devise a few tricks to enhance your game. And you are smart enough to tell what the other guy is going to do before he does it. In D1 these guys ALL have their tricks and they ALL get the coaching to stop the simple things. When you level the playing field (usually thorugh coaching and fundamental development) the "tie" for lack of a better term gets broken by things like size and speed.
This isnt always the case but it usually is.
Let's keep in mind that if Boobie Miles didn't tear his ACL or gave his ACL proper time to heal that he probably would've gone to be a star D1 player at a college like USC, Texas or something like that and ultimately could've ended up in the NFL.
sharelike it was mentioned,football is a team sport.Not only teamwork is incredibly important but a team made of good but not exceptional players,will beat a team with not so good players but who may have one or two exceptional players.The same thing happens in college.Not all NFL players have come from the big colleges.There were NFL material players from minor colleges,who for various reasons didnt play for big teams.
shareYep, some of the best players in NFL history went to small schools. For example, look up where Jerry Rice played his college ball.
If I had 8 hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend 6 hours sharpening my ax.
Because no matter how much you are at a disadvantage athletically and size wize against an opponent, if you play as one unit striving for the same goal you can win and win more than lose.
Haters gonna hate
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You miss the premise behind the book/movie. Bissinger did not follow the team and write the book because the team was good. The school like most schools in Texas put more importance on football then academics. A lot of the players went no where as you mention here, because the system didn't care about them outside of high school football. Read the book and you'll understand.
shareThe difference between high school football (especially in the smaller divisions) and D1 college ball is about the difference between running a small buisness and being the CEO of a major corproation. SO winning a high school state title is impressive but simple work ethic may not be enough to get you D1