This is one of the few films I have seen that truly seems like it could really happen exactly as it did in this movie.
shareAlthough I get our point, nothing happens exactly as it does in the movies. Yes, I believe there are far more similar occurrences than most people would imagine.
shareI think pretty much every aspect of the movie is echoed in relationships all over the world. The only thing that I can think of that is just to difficult to buy into is that someone who looks like Jake Gyllenhaal could have such appalling dress sense.
🇦🇺 All the little devils are proud of Hell.
I'm glad you raised this point, because a couple days ago was my fourth or fifth viewing of this film and I'm wondering about its realism.
Yes, guys can fall in love and a million other things were very true to life in this movie. My specific question is would either Jack or Ennis continue this for twenty years, getting together only a few times a year.
Jack, you could explain since he had the income and personality to explore more, meet more guys, go to Mexico for sex etc. Ennis, maybe since he could bury things so deep, still twenty years for either of them is a LONG LONG time.
Personally, if I loved Ennis as much as Jack did, I think I would have lost my mind way before twenty years had elapsed even with extra sex.
You'd be amazed at how long some people can quietly suffer, especially with occasional "relief" of some kind. Those old-fashioned romance tales with a character pining for someone their whole life, do have some basis in reality.
shareKakstin -Well, yes, I'm amazed, that is why I posed the question I did. Do you know anyone personally who has "pined" their whole life for someone they couldn't have? I read an article in "The Week" magazine, if you have ever seen it most things are very brief summations but at the very end, they have two pages devoted to a book or significant study or something. I wish I had kept it - anyway, it talked about how our perceptions of life can be greatly influenced by how much we read or maybe even what kind of movies we watch. I remember as a kid watching really old movies like "Madame Bovary." She transgressed some way and her life was ruined completely. This had quite an impact on me. Perhaps this was true in the 1800s which was the timeframe of the movie, but it wasn't even close to reality in the 1970s when I grew up even in the country. Yes, people knew what was going on, but you could just move if you became a "pariah."
share"The country" can encompass a wide range of cultures and situations. Not every small town is/was the stereotypical intolerant hick-ville - not by a long shot - but I'm sure there are good reasons why rural Wyoming, and rural Texas, have been considered some of the most deeply conservative parts of the U.S.
I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, but consider as examples the brutal murders of Matthew Shepard (in Laramie, WY) and James Byrd, Jr. (in Jasper, TX). Which is not to imply that such extreme views or actions are typical of the populace even there, merely that such an environment can breed something far more virulent than the typical ignorance or narrow-mindedness. Which brings me around to saying that two men in Jack and Ennis's position, even as recently as the 1980's or beyond in such places, would likely have had good reason to fear for their lives. Social ostracism might well have been the *least* of their worries.
Do you know anyone personally who has "pined" their whole life for someone they couldn't have?
Do both book and movie settle on some "first great love"? It can affect all later relationships, esp. if left unresolved.
The movie is bigger on character study of repression. Not much on personal vagaries of love. We mostly get a dance of Ennis' extremely negative self-image, and Jack's main function of drawing Ennis out of his shell.
The only clues to Jack's mind, is talks of a "short leash" and dreams of making a life together. If not just a romance trope, you make a life together with someone who's compatible and "need" to feel complete, and go on facing life.
But that "leash": As Ennis is locked in a Stockholm syndrome with his hometown culture, to bond with Ennis and see himself through a lover's eyes, the victim mentality transfers to Jack and entraps him too. Dysfunctional "love". Love because you take the bad with the good. Here the bad is really bad, thanks to society. "...what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object." ;)
They're just loving and sharing that Stockholm syndrome:
Both are stressed by perceived threats.
Both count on the kindness of the stranger-society for the lulls between (the threat of) abuse.
They can't see the world beyond the well. Jack's dream is escapist twaddle inside this well. Perversely this allows the movie's charming hold on fans, to wallow in a fatalistic defeatism.
Dreaming, visualizing never translates into doable steps and achievable results. That takes too much ingenuity and creativity, as How-to DIY are just plain boring! Pinning up a postcard, as is passively watching movies for wish fulfillment (or non-fulfillment that rewards you with beautiful dream(er)s dashed), is much...dreamier.
Of course the famous "can't fix it..." is classic Stockholm victim's mentality: there's just no escaping the situation.
E.g. How many lower-income minorities in abusive home lives and relationships, can just pick up and leave? How long does it take them to dislodge, plan safe getaways, etc?
Edinabb - are you replying to me or just the main comment in general? Sometimes it is hard to tell on these message boards.
While I like most of your post, all of it I suppose, not sure it really answers my main question. I do not know of anyone who has pined for someone most of their adult life as the characters in the movie do. In a world of billions of people, it is possible this has happened. I also noted a method by which we get our understanding of the world (reading and watching movies). If I wasn't clear, the article mentioned spoke of how these methods don't just "report" on the world, they much more so shape our interpretation of it.
I've never heard basic societal taboos described as the Stockholm syndrome and I don't think it is, but I get your point.
It is also true that people in bad situations cannot pick up and move easily but that limitation can also be a mind set. Ennis said he would often just quit a job in the past, but he now has child support obligations and is older etc.
Hello. Yes I tried to think of how they're "realistic" for a story. Two cliches in one from romantic melodrama: True Love + First Great Love. Would you know people who experienced both, at same time? A headache.
There are long timespans in Great Expectations and Wuthering Heights too. People act self-destructively, to compensate for lost, ruined, or imperfect love. They got a glimpse of the "best", to them. Be it the person, the idea itself, or both at once. Then everything else pales (unless they get therapy.)
Your article is good for why both men married women. We read and watch things telling us to pine for the opposite sex. What to look for in them. (Conversely, this movie "told" gay men - via character arc and visuals - which one to pine for, that would put up less of a hassle.)
I know Stockholm syndrome sounds too out of left field. But it fits their dynamic: the abusive and the willing victim. Ennis teaches Jack the sacred lesson his father taught. Ennis the victim turned abuser rightfully doesn't know he manipulates. (With logic like "it's because of you" - as if his arousal and repeated sex acts are never self-willed. Especially when Dad taught him DON'T!) If Jack wants to love Ennis, he must respect, NOT alter, how Ennis loves Dad in keeping to their family abuse.
This "heirloom" tale ironically brings them closer and more intimate, to share something belongs only to them. Neither the movie nor performance tell us if Jack is just "fool for Ennis", or has no self-respect to move on (how often did he, and how long did it take to, stand up to Mr. Newsome?)
What happens when your first great love, met in a place of such beautiful views, and with whom you have intense bonding several ways, holds onto abuse? You let him call the shots in the name of Scary Story. You're happy with any tiny scraps you get. These morsels more precious, intense and better than random Randall, Mexican and what not.
Great Expectations and Wuthering Heights are great examples of books that give what I would consider unrealistic expectations of life and romance. And are great examples of influencing generations as much as they told a story. As I approach 60 and have done voluminous reading and met countless people through many jobs, school, and civic/cultural organizations, I don't know what is "right" and "wrong" anymore except that you should be as honest as possible and never try to deliberately hurt someone. Probably examples would be better. Today and for some number of years we have heard clamoring for the government to pay for day care. Women 150 years ago if they had a choice, would never put children in day care (it was considered unnatural) and if absolutely necessary they would leave children with family only. Personally, I understand the dilemma of needing to work and the breakdown of lifetime commitments to marriage, but neither do I think that the majority of children being raised by low paid child care workers is good either. The children are going to pick up those values, not the parents. Today women have their own jobs, but much more often are single. In times past women were home (and apparently hating it) but had to put up with their husband because that is what was acceptable and expected. Which way is right? There are pluses and minuses to every approach.
*** I'm going to edit my post here, the third paragraph below continues is the original post. I don't think Ennis bought into the anti homosexual thing because he loved his Dad, he was scared to death because he saw the horror of what can happen with his own two eyes. In some ways, it is Jack's fault. If Jack had never come on to Ennis, I doubt very seriously if he ever would have had the nerve to come on to another guy. It's funny, a friend of mine took me out to dinner. We had a 23-25 y/o waiter, lives in an upscale (ie fairly educated) community. The restaurant is really nice - a drink apiece, entrees and we split a dessert was $70 with 25% tip. I told him a couple "slightly" Gay jokes and I could see he was mildly uncomfortable. He still chuckled politely but not as heartily as with all the other jokes, str8 sexual and nonsexual. One joke was about a captain and two firemen arriving on the scene of a burning house. One fireman goes in, he doesn't come out after 1 minute, so the captain sends in the 2nd guy. He also doesn't come out. Captain goes in, they're *beep* Captain says "what is going on here?" 2nd fireman says "man down not breathing." Captain says "Why didn't you give him mouth to mouth resuscitation?" 2nd fireman "I did, how do you think this got started?" Now to me this is very mild and as long as I made sure beforehand he was okay with off color jokes, it is somewhat unnerving to me that a huge chunk of society will never live and let live. As if homosexuality is even in the top 50 "problems" this country has. So I don't know how old you are, but if you didn't grow up in the 60s, it is hard to convey the shame and disgust one felt by having same sex attractions to say nothing of the legal implications.
Now to the Stockholm syndrome - I do understand what you're saying. Ennis wasn't a willing victim though, he was a child when his father showed him the horror of what happens to "those kind of guys." And in that era,(and a lot now even) everyone heard plenty about sissies and queers and what should be done with them. He had a hard scrap life, like many of my relatives in northern Michigan. They didn't know about psychology and trauma, they knew they had to work hard or starve to death. Same with Ennis and Jack. So if Ennis understood that he wasn't taking responsibility for his sexual arousal deliberately, that would be one thing. I don't think he is capable of thinking it through. Maybe Jack was a "fool" although I don't like describing true love that way or maybe I already did in asking if this story was realistic. Of course, the heart wants what it wants and Ennis (not deliberately) gave Jack just enough to hang on. The visits, then the divorce, etc. If you have read all the boards here, there is a lot to talk about for a seemingly simple story!