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What is all the discussion about + undiscussed point

posted 13 years ago by Joel_morley5
13 replies | jump to latest

So, only two people know the relevance of the pictures posted to Georges, himself and Majhid. Therefore I cannot see how Majhid couldn't have sent them. Only he knew about the bloodied mouth and the rooster, maybe he told his son everything, either way, Majhid would have known about the tapes.

The only other option is the breach of the 4th wall people are talking about, which is credible. Also backed by the fact that one video appeared apparently out of nowhere during the dinner party and also one fact no-one has mentioned...How did Georges know where Majhid's apartment was? He knew the street and that was all we saw. He would have to then know which building, then know which floor, and who knows what else. Haneke is not a lazy director, so they are not plot-holes.

[–] Acceler8 13 years ago

He could have gotten the apartment by looking at the mailboxes. They just didn't show that part.

[–] Joel_morley5 13 years ago

Could have, yeah. Who's to say there were any mailboxes, who's to say there were names on the mailboxes. And it still doesn't show how he knew which building it was, the driving car doesn't stop anywhere on the video clip. This is still a massive question for me.

[–] xxpo 13 years ago

In front of the house there's that BIG BUSH that reaches all the way up to the 2nd floor of the house. So someone could probably have used it to get over that fence to deliver the tape that appears at dinner.

Since we also hear that knock, we also know George didn't do it. So was his son also in on this plot with George?

The son also receives a bloody looking post card, and his father, who either never or hardly ever picks him up at school, also picks him up that day for some reason.

So was this because he tells his son about MAJHID, and that he thinks his grandmother may leave the Estate to him?

Therefore, he also gets his son to PRETEND to be kidnapped one night? And maybe he also gets his son to knock on the door during the dinner party?

Still another piece of evidence that appears to point the finger at George being the GUILTY party or the one who sends himself these tapes is the CALLOUS way he goes to see a FILM ... after just having been a WITNESS to the brutal death of MAJHID.

What kind of a person does something like that?

Goes to see a film, doesn't call the cops or the EMS, etc.?

[–] Joel_morley5 13 years ago

It's a nice idea but a lot of your points seem to me missing clear parts of the film when George is alone.

If he had planned the fake kidnap, why would he break down into tears in his kitchen, alone?

He receives a postcard at his work and spends a short time confusedly pondering it. If it was him he wouldn't look twice at it.

In my eyes a more likely explanation of the school ride from home is that George see's this postcard (a picture with blood), hears from his wife that there was an anonymous call and thinks *beep* getting real, I'd better not let Pierrot go home alone"

[–] xxpo 13 years ago

The breakdown in the kitchen is problematic. Perhaps being a witness to the suicide got to him (reminded him of the headless chicken situation he experienced as a child)?

But didn't he also INSTIGATE that situation as well?

As a way to GET RID of his RIVAL MAJHID?

DEAD chickens are one thing.

Dead people another?

So maybe this time his victory is also a much more HOLLOW one for him than he expected it to be?

Because this time his rival also has a PISSED OFF son?

Do you think the scene at the school where he meets with the son of George is REAL?

Or is that scene suppose to be a continuation of the DREAM George is having?

Because IF it is a dream, then that might also be his subconscious expressing a fear that the son of MAJHID may seek revenge upon his son for what he's done?

Note how we also switch from the dream about MAJHID being taken away to the orphanage right into the scene at the school.

If it isn't a dream, it also indicates there's either been a conspiracy of some kind between these 2 sons, or else there might be one at some future time?

Maybe the post card at work was also sent by the son of MAJHID?

Because he also shows up at his work place and tries to humiliate George there in front of other employees he works with?

So perhaps both George and the son of MAJHID are involved in sending these tapes?

Maybe George starts the SNOWBALL rolling down the hill (so to speak), and then the son of MAJHID also begins making some tapes sometime after that ... as a way to seek revenge for the accusations ... and for what George is doing to his father?

[–] Joel_morley5 13 years ago

The suicide happens after the while kidnapping debacle, so that idea can't work.

I don't believe that he instigated the situation of the suicide. He never could have expected that outcome, no-one could. Anyway, if the death was something he planned, I'm sure he would have realised, in the moment of clear headed pre-meditation, that the best thing to do would be to call the police straight away. The quieter he stays, the guiltier he looks.

There isn't much reason to believe the car scene is a dream. It is merely there as the final push to make them seek the authorities. The moment the son became involved was the red light which made them visit the police.

The idea of the postcards being sent by George and Mahjid's son is ridiculous. This would mean that, by chance, his son has drawn exactly the same style pictures with exactly the same relevance that George had been receiving. The point in question (at work) is before George gives Mahjid a copy in his flat.

I really think the son has nothing to do with it. It's worth noting that there are no new videos or pictures after the death of Mahjid.

Haneke has really achieved his goal here, reaction wise.

[–] xxpo 13 years ago

You seem confused or else I'm confused by your sentence structure and by some of the things that you've said.

The suicide happens AFTER the son disappears, because the disappearance of his son is why he has both MAJHID and his son ARRESTED by the police.

So if MAJHID were already dead, the police wouldn't be able to question him or take him for a ride to the station.

It's also the HUMILIATION of that arrest of MAJHID and his son that leads to MAJHID taking his own life (because he probably also assumes GEORGE will continue to keep harassing him and HIS SON if he remains alive)?

I AGREE the suicide was a surprise for George.

But there's also still MOTIVATION for him to send himself these tapes (as a way to discredit MAJHID and keep him from being able to INHERIT ALL or a part of the ESTATE).

The mother of GEORGE is OLD and not in the best of health. George also knows she may do something like this to repay MAJHID for the way she abandons him as a child?

George is also not sure if he'll be keeping his job or not, so the last thing he wants is for MAJHID to inherit the ESTATE of his mother?

The scene where MAJHID is taken away to the ORPHANAGE as a child is definitely a DREAM.

The interesting thing is how the DREAM LOOKS EXACTLY like the other STATIC SHOT that we see in the FIRST OPENING shot of the house.

As if to indicate that George also DREAMS the same way as he FILMS when he makes that tape?

And if George is worried enough to go to the cops, then WHY DOESN'T he TELL his mother who's also had HER HOUSE filmed that she may also be IN DANGER?

Maybe he says NOTHING to her because he KNOWS she's not in danger because HE WAS the one who films her home?

Those postcards also look like PRINTS. As if someone created them then had copies made of them (maybe as a way to keep cops from dusting them for finger prints)?

[–] jabberttp 13 years ago

And if George is worried enough to go to the cops, then WHY DOESN'T he TELL his mother who's also had HER HOUSE filmed that she may also be IN DANGER?

Maybe he says NOTHING to her because he KNOWS she's not in danger because HE WAS the one who films her home?

That's a good point I hadn't thought of...

[–] xxpo 13 years ago

Still another strange thing to consider is how the wife of GEORGE has also seen this tape that was made of the front of his mother's house?

But we also never see her calling his mother to WARN her or discuss with her how her life may also be in the same kind of danger?

And did she even know that was the home of her mother-in-law at the time when she first saw the tape?

Or did George have to tell her that's what they were looking at?

Still another interesting thing to note is the way MAJID also guessed RIGHT AWAY that the MOTHER of George was ill.

So that also means Majid knew the reason why George was motivated to torment him?

Because Majid also knew the plan was to discredit Majid in his mother's eyes as a way to keep Majid from being able to inherit any of the Estate?

And with the mother old and feeble, the time was probably also getting close to the time when the Estate would be left to someone in her will?

Of course there's also the possibility that a woman who was kind enough to want to adopt Majid never stops seeing him once he's taken to the orphanage.

So her relationship with Majid could have also been an ongoing one throughout his lifetime, and she may also have kept that fact a secret from George?

And IF George had also accidentally stumbled onto or somehow discovered his mother's relationship with Majid had never ended all those years ago ...

the way that George assumed that it had ...

wouldn't something like that also motivate George to try and find a way to
GET RID of MAJID AGAIN ????

[–] agracier-574-436194 10 years ago

So was this because he tells his son about MAJHID, and that he thinks his grandmother may leave the Estate to him?
__________________________

French law does not allow for the disinheriting of children. There is no way at all that George's mother would have been able to leave the estate or much of anything at all to Mahjid. He is not related to her in any way at all and own children always have priority over anyone else - even over brothers and sisters of the deceased.

Even if she had given the estate to Mahjid before her death, all such gifts have to have sales and inheritance taxes paid on them first before a legal transfer becomes legal. That would be quite a substantial sum to pay just for the pleasure of giving away an estate.

And also, by French (and other European countries as well) gifts of a substantial nature, like for instance the gift of property and real estate are completely revocable till 5 years before the death of the owner. That means George's mother would have had to die 5 years and day after giving away the estate and paying all taxes. If she died sooner, then the estate and all property reverts to the children.

So, few are those who can foresee their death so far into the future.

These inheritance laws in France, are by the law, common knowledge. People know you cannot just give away an inheritance on a whim. Children are always, always the first in line for an inheritance after the death of the last parent.

[–] xxpo 13 years ago

Check out the scene at the very end when George is dreaming about Majhid being taken away as a boy to the orphanage.

Look at the way that scene is FILMED.

It's the same STATIC ONE SHOT scene we see in the OPENING shot

Imo, that dream scene pretty much indicates it was George who sent himself these tapes.

His mother is old. After she dies, George is probably afraid she might leave the ESTATE he wants to inherit to Majhid (who also almost became her adopted son before George manipulates the situation that sends Majhid off to live at the orphanage).

In that scene with his mother George is also fishing around ... pumps his mother for info about Majhid.

But why doesn't he also WARN her that she may also be IN DANGER?

Because someone also makes a tape of the FRONT of her house as well.

So if George is so concerned about his own safety and that of his immediate family, why not also be alarmed about his mother, who's also had her home filmed?

The answer could be it's because GEORGE filmed the outside of her home himself, and therefore already knows she's NOT in any danger?

[–] blackvenom-1 12 years ago

There are two interesting facts.

First, do you guys remember the scene in the editing room where Georges and the other guy are editing the show? It is intentional? Like, Georges knows how to edit/make a tape, perhaps?
And secondly if you look carefully at his last dream/Majhid's departure from the estate, you'll notice that the kid is the short black-haired one during the rooster scene. Which is also intriguing, because it means that Georges was lying again to his wife (he was the one who killed the rooster, and blamed Majhid).

Just a couple of interesting notices. I don't know if Georges is the one who did it, but the film is rich, multilayered and intriguing, and there are many different opinions and responses to Haneke's work of art.

[–] agracier-574-436194 10 years ago

His mother is old. After she dies, George is probably afraid she might leave the ESTATE he wants to inherit to Majhid (who also almost became her adopted son before George manipulates the situation that sends Majhid off to live at the orphanage).
___________________

Look above to my previous post on French inheritance laws.

George has absolutely no reason to afraid he will be cut out an inheritance. This is simply not allowed under French law.

It's a common enough motive to use in Anglo-Saxon mysteries of the Agatha Christie type or in American mysteries/intrigues. But not in French stories.