brilliant except for portrayal of women - Bom yeoreum gaeul gyeoul geurigo bom (2004) Discussion

[–] whois_mr_keegan 18 years ago

I didn't get that at all from this film. How did you think that women were portrayed as evil?

- I love these quiet little moments before the storm....it reminds me of Beethoven

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] hgv314 18 years ago

While I did not find that the movie portrayed women as "evil" per se, the role of the woman-as-sacrifice seemed to follow a trajectory that crops up a fair amount in Western Literature (think of Senta in Wagner's "Flying Dutchman" or Gretchen in Goethe's "Faust"). Should the woman be viewed as a sacrifice in this way (implying, in the extreme case, that in every generation a woman must be killed in order to train a new Master!), or is it better simply to suppose that each generation of Master must learn in his own way? If she should not be viewed as a sacrifice, can one say any more of her infidelity than the Master did of the young monk after he had fallen in love with her--namely, that what happened was natural?

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[–] mephistopheles93 18 years ago

The women in the film do seem to symbolize temptation and sin. Nothing new there.

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[–] polysicsarebest 16 years ago

Well, how many women do you know?...

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[–] k_kush 16 years ago

Women had an equal part to play.

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[–] IRanOverARabbit 16 years ago

"Brilliant movie except that women are unfairly portrayed as being evil !???

Women are not fairly or unfairly portrayed as evil, it is the Monk's desire for women that is protrayed, not as evil, but as a cause of suffering. As the master warns his apprentice "lust leads to desire for for possession, and possession leads to murder", and it proves to be correct.

As the master points out, what he (the apprentice) desires other men will desire too, he is trying to explain that it is the desire itself that is the cause of suffering.

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[–] lordrogue 15 years ago

I wonder if it was a woman writing this.

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[–] anderslatif 15 years ago

I could not see how you could think women were portrayed as evil.

If you watch his other movie Hwal (the bow) you will maybe get another perspective where the girl is idolized and the man and the boy are (if you need stereotypical words) "evil".

So what's wrong with portrayed women in a good way in one film and in a bad way in another. Isn't that balance or do you always want women to be heroines?
When Lars Von Trier made Antichrist he said that he wanted the women to be the villain cause they never are in movies. I feel the same thing, women are always portrayed as victims. Victims of society, of abusive homes, of city/surburbian boredom, of materialism etc..

I hope you will learn to look at it in a new light and maybe appreciate this movie even more. Enjoy!

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[–] tieman64 15 years ago

The women aren't portrayed as being "evil", but I agree that the handling of sex is a bit awkward. I've only seen a few of Kim-Ki-duk's films, but he does always seems to treat women as silent objects idolized by salivating men.

"Rape is no laughing matter. Unless you're raping a clown."

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[–] reziztor 15 years ago

Well, in Korea women are supposed to just be good housewives and mothers. And anyway, buddhism never seemed to welcoming to women. Women have more rules to follow than men as monks and Buddha said:

Ananda, a woman is given to anger. Ananda, woman is envious. Ananda, a woman is greedy. Ananda, woman is poor in wisdom. This is the reason, Ananda, this is the cause, why women-folk do not preside in a court of justice, nor engage in an occupation, nor go to a foreign country.

or how about...

It is nature's law that rivers wind, trees grow wood, and, given the opportunity, women work iniquity.

orrrr...

Women leaving home are like wild grass in the field which will affect the harvest.

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[–] dichotomy 15 years ago

Bloody good post reziztor.

I too was a little frustrated with the characterisation of women, but it does seem to reflect buddhist beliefs.

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[–] Killersnakes 15 years ago

Thanks reziztor. Makes sense to me.

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[–] legendlength 14 years ago

Yeah good post.

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[–] red_xiii 13 years ago

Hah, no! Sorry, what a terrible post!

It is a typical chauvinistic and archaic view to cast the blame on another (women in this case), when instead the blame lies with oneself. Only oneself is to blame for one's actions and this was made clear in the movie like IRanOverARabbit said:

As the master warns his apprentice "lust leads to desire for possession, and possession leads to murder", and it proves to be correct.

As the master points out, what he (the apprentice) desires other men will desire too, he is trying to explain that it is the desire itself that is the cause of suffering.

Notice that nothing was said about women, but instead the focus was lust, desire, and possession. These are internal conflicts that exist in both men and women.

edit: Also on an academic level I would argue that it is not 'buddhist beliefs that are unwelcoming to women' but rather biased men's beliefs, which have been adopted into various cultures over the generations. Anyone can cherry-pick a quote out-of-context to support their chauvinistic views, such as the one given above from Buddha to Ananda. I would encourage anyone to research this quote thoroughly to find it's correct context. For example a quick google search brings up http://www.wfb-hq.org/Articles%20and%20Analysis0004.html which has a decent discussion of the topic.

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[–] rydell1986 11 years ago

I don't see why so many people are angered by the suggestion that women in the movie represent flaws in human nature; however, I also wouldn't argue that this lessened the value of the film. The girl he lusts after really seemed to serve only one purpose: to tempt him. They don't really fall in love; it's a purely physical relationship. She only felt well enough to leave after she had slept with the boy (i.e. he had given in to her temptation), so she had served her purpose.

The mother of the toddler was ashamed of her actions, appearance (I saw another interesting thread about why she was covering up her face, although the most compelling argument seemed to be simply that she was ashamed of leaving her child behind).

The mother of the young woman is pretty minor/flat character, although she seems very pious and eager to help her daughter.

So no, I don't know if women are necessarily portrayed as evil, but they're not really shown in a positive light. However, I don't think that's the point of the film, and I also don't think it lessens its value.

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