Why did Sam see Henrys mother and dog when they were dead?
Why did Sam see Athena and talk to her and then walk on the stairs and she was gone and then was back with making lines with that other dude.
I though for a second that Sam was Henry but that cant be it?
From what I take, none of these are actually questions that need to be answered. Almost the entire storyline takes place in Henry's mind as he lays on the Brooklyn Bridge after the car accident-- it's all an illusion. He has the illusion as he lays there, dying, and the doctor (Ewan) and the nurse (Naomi) get tangled up in it just by being there. None of it actually happened. It explains all of the plot jumps, the ability to see the future (since his mind was creating it), etc.
At least, that's how I took it.
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You have a very special purpose in life. The Island awaits you.
Link, that sounds/rather reads good (since you were typing) but I'm still confused. Was it because Sam was helping him, he envisioned Sam helping him in the real world? Man, I could go on forever with questions, but let's start there.
shareHenry, while dying, took on Sam's persona and lived his last moments as Sam, interacting with everyone he saw, heard and felt in that moment. Henry then intertwined his own memories with the fictional scenarios his subconscious mind was creating. I think.
sharei like that explanation. that's kinda where my thoughts were heading. similar to jacob's ladder without the "role playing" or "identity swapping". the scene that plays out in my mind with respect to this is on the stairs outside sam's apt. they were asking each other the same questions and then speaking in unison. henry's mom recognized sam as henry although we saw him as sam. the ring henry referred to that he got his girlfriend was JUST LIKE the one he stated sam got for his wife. that's probably when i started to catch on. not to mention the "groundhog day" scenes. overall a movie that moved quickly and wouldn't let you walk away for fear of missing something significant. just my 2 cents.
shareI don't know that he "took on Sam's persona"...it was a collaborative effort. Sam somehow became caught up in Henry's dying thoughts, which were primarilly concerned with seeking forgiveness from his mother, father & girlfriend, whose deaths he blamed himself for. Maybe Sam's extraordinary sense of compassion helped to establish some kind of mental link between the two, which he got lost in. Perhaps Henry uses Sam to try and make sense of his life, or sees him as a Savior who could offer the absolution he needs before he departs.
I also took it to mean that since all of life is an illusion, and since all of what occurs in Henry's mind is part of that illusion, everyone in the film is representative to some degree of Henry. I would almost say that Sam is Henry's doppelganger. At least it appears so in the early stages of the film.
None of which, I suppose, has much to do with the question. But I think there is so much to contemplate and take from this movie that it will be a long time, if ever, that I'll figure it all out. The last time I watched it I actually cried when Henry passed away and I've seen it like 5 times. I consider it to be the best film I've ever seen.
The first few times (i cant get enough!) that i watched this film i didnt know what it was. so going into it with an open mind i was thoroughly confused, and i too thought for a little while that sam and henry were somehow the same person...? but then i had heaps of theories about the storyline. and THEN i read the back of the dvd cover! fliiiiiip, it pretty much put all my outlandish theories to death haha.
So now, my interpretation is much like jackory69s, and that the movie was playing out henrys time spent somewhere between life and death and the things that he believed to be important and wanted to resolve before he passed. like seeking forgivness from his loved ones (because he believes that the accident is his fault).
To the OPs question, sam sees henrys mother, athena etc because sam doesnt really exsist (like at the end when we find out that the character of sam is just a stranger helping henry after the crash) try to remember that the crash happens at the beginning of the storyline, so the movie is all in henrys mind (whilst he is fighting to STAY alive) and he is the one that sees his mother and so on because he wants to be at rest with her before he dies.
hope that helps?
and it may not be right, but ive seen this movie so many times and thats what i have finally come to terms with (in my mind) with what this movie is about.
Since this discussion is hot right now and the topic is explaining the movie, I was wondering if some of the symbolism I took from the film rings true with anyone else or if I'm just reading too much into it...also would appreciate whatever insight could be offered regards to that symbolism.
First off, I think most of you have figured out that Henry's last name, Letham, is an anagram for Hamlet (the play Athena was rehearsing with her fellow actor was "Hamlet"). Which makes perfect sense, "To be or not to be, that is the question". And I think that's meant on a much deeper level than simply Henry's wanting to kill himself. He has already made that decision in his "dying mind"...but why? Obviously it's the guilt. Why did he wait 3 days, though? Could be he held out hope that his family had survived the crash. It wasn't until he heard that they were gone that he lost the will to live. It was at that point when he pulled the trigger.
And there HAS to be some kind of religious significance to the THREE DAY wait. Could it be some kind of tie-in with the Christian doctrine of Christ's resurrection on the third day after He was killed? Many theologians believe that Jesus descended into hell during that time span and freed the spirits of the dead. I don't know what significance any of it holds, but the scene where Sam follows Athena down the infinite staircase sure puts me in mind of Dante's Inferno.
I think there is another "3 day" reference in the movie, but I don't remember exactly what or where it was.
Surely there's GOT to be some kind of religious symbolism in the scene where Henry restores his father's sight. The implications here, though, are much to deep for me to grasp. The Son seeks forgiveness from the Father. The Father is blind. The Father doesn't recognize His Son. The Son opens the Father's eyes to the world. The film doesn't say whether Mr. Letham recognizes that the person who healed him was his son (and he was, because you can see Mr. Letham in the rear-view mirror of the car just before it crashes). The last thing the Father says in the film: "The Buddhists had it right all along." HAHA!
Leon plays chess with Sam. Could this be some kind of reference to "The Seventh Seal" in which the knight plays the game with the Grim Reaper to buy a few more days? Is there significance in the fact that both participants are doctors? If so, does any of that play into the reason Henry overturned the table and scattered the pieces to the floor?
Okay, that's all I can think of for now. I probably should have started a new thread, but I felt like the participants on this one could offer some thoughtful perspective.
Just saw the movie, it ended 5 min. ago, a lot happens in that movie doesnt it? Kinda have to watch it twice. Did anyone notice the twins? First, at the lecture Henry attends, two girls in similar jackets leave the hall, and then later, two girls in similar jackets leave the taxicab that Sam takes. Maybe theyre seen elsewhere? Guess it still makes sense, Sam and Henry being the same person, but still different.
shareYea there is lots of symbolism in this movie, i too thought that the whole 3 day thing had some sort of religous relevance towards the resurection of jesus christ.
About the "twins", their actually just the same person, when you watch the movie more you start to notice that in the scene when henry is at school and leaving the lecture a lot of characters have been doubled up or so on. Also, a lot of the characters through out the film are the people that henry sees around him when he is dying. Like the scene with the mother and little boy who loses his ballloon, they are at the crash site and the little boy says; "mummy is that man gonna die?" and thats what he says at another point in the movie when henry walks past them.
that ^ wasnt a very good way of explaining that whole thing but i hope people get the jist of what i was trying to point out.
Also the black lady at the mental hosipital is at the crash site too, and she says the same thing then as she did when they show her being carried away; "i didnt move him, i know your not supposed to move them" or something along those lines...
its been a long time since i saw this movie but i went through a stage when i watched it constantly and everything is still so lucid in my mind...its strange?
there is HEAPS of symbolism though, jackory; your not the only one to read to far into it haha, its shocking the amount of theorising this movie makes me do!
Just finished watching this film for the first time. Can someone explain why Sam's trousers were too short? Also, I understood the film to be similar to Jacob's Ladder, except at the very end, Sam asks Lila if she wants to get coffee, and Sam flashes back (Or is it possibly forward?) to himself and Lila. What was that all about? Is it possible Henry saw his past, illusions of his present, and also part of the future? As in Sam will end up in a relationship with Lila?
shareI guess that's what I love about ambiguous films. In some ways we see what we want to see; and in others, we see pretty much how the writer (David Benioff) planned it.
I see the number three throughout the entire film. Lila has three scars on her wrist, Sam (Ewan) has a weird set of three stripes on an otherwise normal looking black sweater, etc. I see the number 3 as symbolising the three persons Henry thinks he's responsible for. The movie is replete with the number. Three days, three people dead, three scars, etc. Ewan MacGregor's pants being so short throughout the film shows us that Henry is deciding in his dying mind whether to try and STAY and hang on..or to go since the last person he is looking at is MacGregor's charcter kneeling (his pants thereby shorter as when bending). In the end, we know the decision Henry makes regarding staying or going. However, the last people he sees, he incorporates into this film. Like in a dream, all the people are really him and his thoughts. But he uses the last people around him..the last people he sees as he remains between life and death on the Brooklyn Bridge. There he finds his will or his defeat in the meandering thoughts of his life whilst using the last faces he sees...faces of strangers.
The most beautiful psychological thriller I have ever seen, and they're my favourite type. I own this movie and watch only once in awhile. The part where he writes "forgive me" over and over is almost too much to bear. *tears*
Regarding henry restoring the sight to his father...
This is a tough one but I think that somehow this is to do with his father's ascent to heaven or his passing over into the afterlife!
In old religious terms, 'Opening someones eyes to the world around them' is a metaphor for that person 'passing over'.
I think henry knows that his father is passing over and that is why he seems so emotional, we are not to know if he was blind before the crash so we can't say exactly but his father could have been lost in the little corridor between life and death with his son but never knew it...
...and when he can see again, the time has come for him to cross over in to the light which he does so on the train station platform when the light engulfs him...
...Maybe!!?!! :)
Too weird to live, and too rare to die!
In your post I especially like the connection to Hamlet, but I would have put another quote here:
"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
Athena even says herself, that it is her favorite part, which I found pretty odd in the beginning because that's what every teacher would say, but at the end it makes perfectly sense: Henry is only the king of his minds, not of all the things which are happening in the world, like it may seem in the beginning, where one thinks he can read the future.
All of these theories can make sense but there are somethings that dont fit.
1--> after henry dies, sam has like a flash back of "henry's imaginative world" right before he asks lila for coffee. if this was all in henrys head then why did he have that flashback.
2--> also the theories you guys gave for leon dont really make sense to me. why in henrys imagination would his father not know him. and i dont really understand the symbolism of the lights going out. if it was as someone else said, that it has a religious meaning of turning on lights and opening his eyes then why were the lights turning off has he passed. Shouldnt they be turning on>?
3-->what was the deal with the burning car. he says that he set it on fire which would go along with the fact that he blames himself for the accident but the car in the accident was not on fire. Also the scene with the car burning is completely different then the scene of the accident.
4--> also if this really is in henrys imagination, then why did he make such a big deal about lilas suicide attempt. I mean i get that his suicide stunt was important because that is the time that he really died from the crash. But i dont understand why lilas suicide attempt was so important to the story. it really didnt have anything to do with his life or death. he was happy and in love in his real life, not trying to committ suicide. And in his imagination, he was trying to committ suicide but what did that have to do with lila?
--> And does the fact that sam has an aversion to lilas suicide attempt have anything to do with the fact that sam and henry are the same person in the "dream". Couldnt that be like henry having an aversion to suicide which is contradictive to the henry character in the dream.
I feel like im on the verge of understanding this movie, like it is on the tip of my tongue. But for some reason i just cant grasp it. I do understand that the whole movie wasnt real but rather a "dream" or bit of imagination that henry had before he died. But everything else is like i said, right on the verge!......it is frustrating and fascinating at the same time!!!
Love the movie though! amazing visual techniques!!!!!
I can try to answer some of your question although I do not think that I understood the movie. And in some way I do have a completely different approach to the movie in general, as I think some of the scenes are not that important and can be interpreted in any way you like it. So you may not like may answers and I acknowledge that I did not think about some of your question before I read your post. I'm referring mainly to your points 1 and 3.
1) It's not Sam's flashback, it rather shows that the connection between Sam and Lila in Henry's dream was more than just an imagination, there was a bond between them, which Henry, who was somewhere between two worlds by that time, instantly felt.
2) Also Leon was between the worlds and confused (i.e. blind in Henry's dream; I don't think he was blind in real life), he was like a confused soul, lost in the tunnel. He was neither able to go in one direction (come back to life) nor in the other direction (die or go to heaven or whatever - not sure about the buddhism reference here). Only Henry could show him the way, i.e. "deconfuse" him, i.e. make him see again as he was the only one in the between worlds, too. Leon then goes in one direction of the tunnel, the only one he can go - he dies. Henry is surprised about his father not being dead, because he got this information from real Sam. And I think Henry needs more or less the same help from Sam then he gave to Leon, but Sam who's not in between the worlds, don't understand how to help him.
3) The car is not on fire but how does Henry know? In his dream the car is on fire, he just mixed it up a bit. The scenes are different because one scene is real, one is only in his dream.
4) I can't answer you this one, but somehow Lila (in Henry's dream) is Henry, too. He took the face from the street and put something in it, something which comes from Henry's mind, so Lila is in a way Henry. That's why her paintings carry his name. Anyway, I don't quite understand this part as well.
@pfnuesel
3) i think that the car is on fire in henry's dream because he felt like it was entirely his fault for causing the accident. maybe he had a lot of things going on in his life that he had not yet concluded and this was a huge display of how he felt emotionally. that is the way he started the dream, with chaos in his mind, therefore creating the weirdness that was to come.
4)i think that lila's paintings are henry's because it is henry coming to the realization that he made all of this up. as the film goes on, it becomes more and more illogical. henry is basically realizing how ridiculously out of touch with reality this scenario is and then, he's back. back into reality, to greet death.
everyone made excellent points in this thread! and i loved the hamlet reference that i did not get until just now. i've only seen the film once, by recommendation of my gf, but it was excellent.
the story, the cinematography and the mise en scene were stunning.
easily, one of my favorite films.
I agree with all of you who said that this is only Henry's attempt to make sense of dying. He grabs all this faces, all this little pieces of real life and creates a new one, where Sam (who's really a doctor) can help him to overcome his guilt (guilt because he thinks he killed his family and future wife) and prevent (or not) his death. But as the time goes on, Henry looses control of hs mind, and he and Sam start mergin more and more. Lila is juat another aspect of Henry: the one that Sam was able to save.
So, both Henry and Lila are the death wish and the "life" wish, and Sam is between them.
In the end, the "flashback" we see is just a reiteration of Henry's idea of Sam/Lila or maybe it indicates that Hnry stays anchored to life, somehow-
Just MHO, of course
1: the "flashbacks" are actually Sam's, imagining a life with her, much as Henry imagined parts of a life for himself in the few minutes between the accident and his passing.
These are the fleeting thouhts that people have daily, that motivate them to make decisions.
The scene where they leave the lecture hall, you can see more than just the two girls that seem to be twins... there is a double black guy, in the next scene you see a woman with a suitcase 3! times in a row and so on...
apart from me still trying to figure out the movie, one of the greatest things this movie was: in some scenes, you watch the foreground, and in the background you see already the next minute. When Ewan McGregor got out of the cab, you can see him walking to the door of the house in the background. The next scene is just a cut to that person ariving at the door. They do that quite some times, and it realy puts some pace in the storytelling....
very very iteresting movie
I can't say for sure, but after watching the film and reading these posts, I think I'm understanding the movie in this framework...
Henry has been fatally injured in the car accident and as he lays on the bridge, as the tagline to the movie says "Between the worlds of the living and the dead there is a place you're not supposed to stay." I think this is where Henry is and most of the film is occurring in this place. I think it's more than just a place between the conscious and unconscious, or a dream state. It's also a place where the soul is. I think Henry is literally fighting for his life, and psychologically, the main characters are aspects of Henry's personality.
Henry struggles with the terrible guilt of just having killed his mother, father and girlfriend in the car accident. It doesn't matter if it's actually his fault, he feels guilty and also feels the loss of his entire family, so emotionally he wants to die. Henry is wounded, guilty, depressed, wanting to die... so he sees this part of himself as "Henry".
However, another part of Henry's being wants to live - because we all deep down WANT to live. Henry sees this part of himself as Sam, since Sam is quite literally the man trying to save him. Sam is strong and healthy and alive and is Henry's "will to live". And as Henry hovers between life and death, I think that is why most of what we see is "Sam" desperately rushing around trying to save "Henry". If Sam is Henry's will to live, that would be the part that would have the girlfriend, and the diamond ring, etc.
Lila is with Sam trying to save Henry, so in his "dream state" she is with "Sam".
We can guess that Henry loves art... he also loves Athena so he combined those and Lila is cast as an art teacher and a representation of "the things Henry loves". Henry's father being blind is metaphorical ... emotionally, Henry wants his father to "see" him. I think this is universal, all sons long for their father's to truly see them and embrace them. And perhaps as Henry's father's soul crosses into this place, in death he actually DOES see Henry and embrace him. Also, he is the one who delivers the message to Sam that "it's all an illusion". Perhaps that part is not a creation of Henry's mind but a real intervention from his father's spirit.
"Sam" seeks out Henry's mother... again, a universal impulse to turn to mom when we need help. But she can't "feed" him, i.e. nourish him, offer him comfort or hope. He is confronted with the fact that mom is dead. The dog biting Sam is the "bite" of this hard fact.
The car being on fire is metaphorical... everyone important to Henry is dead in that car, so it's the emotional flames of his grief.
Sam goes looking for Athena to help... but he just chases her down a staircase and she's not there. A metaphor for the emotional "downward spiral" of chasing a dream for his future that will now never be. Sam returns the same scene he initially encountered, perhaps a memory of Henry's. Because that is all he has now, memories.
Perhaps in life Henry really did love the artist who shot himself on the brooklyn bridge, and now as Henry lies dying on the brooklyn bridge, he remembers this story about this artist and it just gets incorporated. I think when Henry finally "shoots" himself on the bridge, is the moment when he finally lets go of life.
As for the real Lila/Sam "flashback" moment, perhaps in the place between life and death, Henry can actually glimpse the future... and as a soul in between worlds, the strong emotional connection of the real Sam trying so hard to save Henry enables Henry to send Sam this glimpse.
I read "Leon"'s sight exactly the same way you did. Similarly, I think that Athena crossed over when she completely vanished from Sam's view, and when she did so I believe a real spark between Lila and Sam (not in Henry's reality, but in real life) was made.
Lila was telling Sam to "stay with" her, not to be afraid, and so on. All the things she said would have also been said by the spirit of a loved one who has just died, and who is watching you die (ergo, Athena, like Lila, wants Henry to "stay" with her). I think this supernatural realm is where Henry and Sam become almost one; Henry is conversing with the girl who was soon to be his fiance, but she is embodied by Lila. Henry is completely in love with, and making a dying proposal to, the girl he is talking to. To Sam, this girl is not Athena; it's Lila. And he has a pretty good idea from the get go that there could be something special between them.
The most important part of the movie, I thought, was at one point Henry tells Sam that he's the only one who can help him. Right before Henry dies, Sam tells him that the accident was not his fault. The tire blew and Henry did nothing wrong. At that point Henry is absolved and can finally let go.
This movie reminded me of another similar movie from 1990 called Jacob's Ladder. A very well made film that will haunt you for a very long time.
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this interpretation seems very cohesive. very helpful in understanding this hugely complex story.
thanks hrobin352-1
Good movie. I think the message is very clear, don't drink and drive or you will have some wild and crazy hallucinations.
Just playing, there must be a Director/ Writer's explanation somewhere?
4) Lila was constructed in Henry's dream on his structure. In the dream she was a painter, just like Henry. Also, in the dream Sam says that Lila tried to kill herself and "she lost five pints of blood", but she did not die (obviously). In reality Henry was also losing blood at that point, so I think he created this parallel in his mind as a self encouragement.
I was a painter - She was a painter
She avoided death - I'm trying to.
The *beep* Marc Forster had apparently "directed" this sordid mess. He must have eaten way too much sauerkraut or something, 'cause none of this mess makes any sense whatsoever. There may have been some messed-up people in the film front of the camera, but the real mess is surely the director Forster. And the moneybag idiots who had greenlighted this crap.
I doubt there was a screenplay as such -- you do not need one if you make a movie about nothing that is not even supposed to make any sense to anyone, anyhow.
Oh my God .. I understood the whole movie with an entirely different approach.
I still don't know which theory is right, and if - basically - there's a " right theory " . I guessed maybe Sam was driving and the accident did really happen. He tried to save Henry but he couldn't and the whole family had gone too. My point is: maybe Sam got PTSD because he was really affected and moved by what he had seen, also doctors in particular get that guilty feeling when they can't save someone ( even when it's not their fault at all ). The whole movie prior to the accident's scene was Sam engaging in daydreams , hallucinations, ..etc. because of what he saw. PTSD sometimes has a very strong effect and consequences and doesn't always come in the same form or the same strength ..