MovieChat Forums > Collateral (2004) Discussion > Was Vincent really a bad guy, what drove...

Was Vincent really a bad guy, what drove him, and what what his past?


A bit tired to go into details, but, as an audience, we didn't learn anything about Vincents true past, or personal life. By not knowing this, it is difficult to see what drives him (what his motivations for being a hitman are). Vincent doesn't seem to care about money, as he is high level, and probably gets paid well. There is no evidence of him javong a family to support either. Does Vincent care about justice? Yeah, maybe slightly. But not enough to become a hit man. Maybe he feels like such a lone wolfe, and not connected to anything, that he thinks 'why not?'.

Vincent is a paid hitman, there is no doubt about that... But why? When he's obviously an educated and intelligent man, as evidenced by his knowledge of jazz history, and population statistics, as well as the strategic social he uses to get closer to his targets.

I'd love to know more about Vincent's upbringing and history.

Any insights from IMDB viewers, or as presented in the script?

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@PeachMelba

This is a very intriguing question you have. I have loved this film since my best friend first introduced me to it in high school. Vincent is one of the coolest, most badass characters I have ever seen. I think a lot of his back story was meant to be ambiguous but. If you listen to the DVD commentary. Michael Mann gives some backstory on Vincent. Such as he was born in Gary, Indiana and later joined the armed forces before becoming a private sector contract killer.

As far as what drove him. And if he was a bad guy. Vincent is a pure sociopath, as well as being very delusional. He sees nothing wrong with what he is doing. As he alluded to to Max after the first killing at the motel Fanning later went too.

You can tell Vincent lived a hard life and is tough as nails. As well as being completely dauntless. He fears no man on this earth. I suffer from a severe mental illness and have to take medicine for it. Which the church of scientology sternly does not condone. But I Still love Cruise and I think he can play a badass with the best of them.

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As he alluded to to Max after the first killing at the motel Fanning later went too.

You can tell Vincent lived a hard life and is tough as nails. As well as being completely dauntless. He fears no man on this earth.


I love this film too!

Vince certainly fears no man, nor death it seems. Although he did defend himself against Max during the final shoot out.

Whether Vincent is a total sociopath, or has an alternate moral code, is another question all together. It's a similiar question to the Chigurh character in the Coen's film No Country for Old Men. Although Chigurh is a psychopath, with a very warped code of "ethics" or rules for killing (if we could even call it that).

Vincent makes the comment about the "fat guy" being just another drug dealer / criminal (or similiar), and I guess he has a point. That statement is more about the worth / value of a human life, rather than about human life per se. Eg, a good citizen contributes more to society and his / her life is therefore more valuable.

I guess I don't see Vincent as a total sociopath, and am intrigued by what drives him to do the job he does: Eg, he does it because it is in his personality to be thorough (achievement based); he feels he has nothing to lose, no place on this earth, so he does it out of a complete sense of helplessness (which we don't really see); He has a skewed sense of justice, so he takes out the "bad guys"; he needs the money (though there is no evidence of this in the script).

I like the way there is no back-story in the film, as it makes it more situational for me (can enjoy the moment, the story, and the action). Still intrigued about Vincent though!

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All "alternate moral codes" are nothing but a rationalization. And Vincent himself admits that the line he originally fed Max about his victims being the "bad guys", was just some bullsh-t in order to keep the cabbie from freaking out too much (or was Annie a "bad guy"? Was Max, whom he was obviously going to kill after he'd outgrown his use, just as he'd killed another cabbie before him on a similar mission?)

And what makes you think he didn't care about the money? Because he never mentioned it? As far as can be told, all assassins are in it for the personal gain - otherwise they'd just be serial killers or something. And while murder meant nothing for Vincent, he didn't seem to be taking any particular pleasure in it either. Purely business... as usual.



"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan

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@frankabuki

Those are some awesome points you made! That's what makes Vincent so interesting. The fact that we know so little about him and we are just begging for more. I do believe the money was motivation for Vincent but. I consider him a very "Tortured Soul" In the DVD commentary they insinuate that Vincent's story about killing his father was the real one, not the liver disease one. I really don't know if Vincent truly loved the killing his job required. I think just at one point he was just a kid who joined the Special Forces after living a tortured adolescence.

And soon after that, and gaining the skills necessary. He started working private sector. But the most defining characteristic of Antisocial- Personality disorder is lack of empathy and remorse and care for the well being of others. Vincent was a true Sociopath in my opinion.

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This is a really good question. I think he is a bad guy, but one that knows he's trapped into that existence. I think his rant towards Jamie Foxx about not having the ambition to accomplish his dreams was because he feels that he has no choice in his life of what he decides o do. I do think he's a sociopath, but some sociopaths do want to change and are tortured by the way they are unlike psychopaths. Sociopaths justify their actions but often times they question those justifications. He seems to do this a lot in the film but eventually falls back to his default sociopathic behavior.

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Vincent gave up on humanity a long time before the events of the film. Killing was a job to him. Feeling for his victims wasn't in his DNA. He was a sociopath, yet he was still somewhat sane. Thus why he was able to connect to Max and deliver life lessons during the course of the night. I like to think of it as while Vincent lacked a conscience, he still had a soul. Vicariously, he wanted to experience through Max the things he never had a chance to experience, a legit profession, a loving partner, a happy life. Ironically, Max probably went on to all of those things after his treacherous night with Vincent.

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I've always been interested in how his day to day life was when he wasn't out in the job. He's very knowledgeable indeed due to his travels, but something that caught my attention was when we are introduced to his character, chit chatting with Max, he mentions that he hates LA (he was just messing with Max at this point trying to see if he could provoke him) due to the disconnection that is in the city. How nobody knows each other, how nobody cares, nobody notices. Meanwhile it's mentioned the commentary that he lives somewhere in Thailand, in a Buddhist community where people leave each other alone. A place where he probably has no connection to anyone either. In other words, if he were living in the US, LA would be the perfect place for him.

And while I do agree that he is a Sociopath, I do think that he was going through a transition on this night. While trying to get Max to rethink his life, I think he was rethinking his own. Notice the disappointment after he had to kill Daniel. He was truly enjoying Daniel's company and connection they shared for their love of Jazz and Miles David. Having to kill him was a bummer making you think how would he have felt when the moment came that he had to kill Max. When Max instead mortally wounds him, yes you can see his face of being upset of the outcome of his shootout with Max, but I think somewhere in him, he was glad that it was Max that got the best of him and not some random thug or criminal. Also his whole life of being anonymous caught up with him at this moment by asking "Do you think anybody will notice"? meaning "do you think that someone will notice that there was a time that I existed"?

Oh and by the way, I'll come up with a better signature soon.

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[deleted]

choicelesness

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A bit tired to go into details, but, as an audience, we didn't learn anything about Vincents true past, or personal life. By not knowing this, it is difficult to see what drives him (what his motivations for being a hitman are). Vincent doesn't seem to care about money, as he is high level, and probably gets paid well. There is no evidence of him javong a family to support either. Does Vincent care about justice? Yeah, maybe slightly. But not enough to become a hit man. Maybe he feels like such a lone wolfe, and not connected to anything, that he thinks 'why not?'.

Vincent is a paid hitman, there is no doubt about that... But why? When he's obviously an educated and intelligent man, as evidenced by his knowledge of jazz history, and population statistics, as well as the strategic social he uses to get closer to his targets.

I'd love to know more about Vincent's upbringing and history.

Any insights from IMDB viewers, or as presented in the script?

Good point. I think this 'hole' you have pointed out is one reason the film really wasn't plausible to me, and other viewers. Deeper characters may have made the difference between cheddar f__king cheese and a good film.

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