MovieChat Forums > The Box (2009) Discussion > The problem with the morality test... (S...

The problem with the morality test... (SPOILERS)

posted 12 years ago by jetblacknewme
28 replies | jump to latest

is that it is black and white, draconian, and lacks the capacity for subtlety, nuance, or extenuating circumstances. Even our laws and ethical codes do not always state "To kill is wrong." Think about war; self-defence; our police forces; the death penalty; euthanasia. These are all moral/ethical grey areas, and may differ according to culture or personal belief.

So the human race is being tested by means of the box (not a very efficient or conclusive test, to be sure, based on the number of boxes, time taken for the test to run out, and eventual judgement on the morality of just 2 of the world's 7 billion people). Pressing the button means you fail; not pressing means you pass. It's a black/white, binary choice. But it leaves no room at all for individual circumstance.

At the most obvious end of the spectrum, you have financial need. A billionaire would have no need to press the button as the million dollars would be nothing to him. So, according to the test, he passes and is "moral". But what if he is a total b*stard, cruel to his wife and children, has affairs, kicks his dog, etc? Still, he passes the test and is left in peace. On the other end of the spectrum, a homeless couple, living in a filthy unsafe hostel, with a kid with chronic bronchitis from the damp in the walls? You bet your butt they'd take that million to save their own kid. Does that make them immoral? According to the box test, yes. They "fail" the test. And suffer the consequences.

And there are any other number of reasons that people might press the button. Disbelief in its authenticity (as has been discussed elsewhere on this board). Neurological or mental health conditions which affect impulse control. Being under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Crippling debt which you have hidden from your family. Pressure from a (possibly abusive) spouse. There are so many reasons why someone might feel or be compelled to press the button, but that doesn't necessarily make them immoral. Just in the same way that a person can kill in self-defence and get acquitted by a jury. But here it is all reduced to the overly-simplistic Push=Bad, No Push=Good.

The way it's presented in the movie, we humans are supposed to be the less-evolved species, needing to be tested and taught a lesson. On the basis of this test, I have my doubts.

[–] ixusillwrath 12 years ago

All valid points. Though we aren't certain if there are varying rewards for those tested. IE maybe a billionaire would be rewarded with something he could not buy, like bringing back a dead loved one. We also know from dialogue in the film that it was NASA employees of a certain economic tier that were targeted for this test, so perhaps that had all been taken into consideration.

But I don't think we're really supposed to focus on the test as much as the ominous atmosphere the film provides. Having said all that I agree with you 100%.

[–] therefdotcom 12 years ago

which atmosphere are you talking about? first half was interesting, second half was just weird and stupid. the ending was sadistic and inconclusive.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] ixusillwrath 12 years ago

Atmosphere as in the tone of the film. The imagery that it invokes.

[–] therefdotcom 12 years ago

dark tone is within ten thousands of movies. how is that alone a positive?

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] ixusillwrath 12 years ago

Well, some appreciate it.

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

so? i appreciate butter. doesn't make anything involving it a precious meal.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] ixusillwrath 11 years ago

You asked 'what kind of atmosphere'. You got your answer. What exactly are you debating here?

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

gravity.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] ace5000 11 years ago

A greedy millionaire would press the button. It was a test of temptation and weakness, irregardless of need.

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

if it was, why did they have to be brought into life threatening circumstances before the test?

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] AceRoccola 12 years ago

If you believe that a billionaire has no desire for another million dollars, then you have a very strange idea of how billionaires function. Do you think that there is an arbitrary dollar amount at which human greed is fully sated? Even a cursory examination of history seems to indicate that the more we get...the more we want. Power and wealth tend to be intoxicating.

As for the test being unfair, sure it is. Most tests given to man by superior/divine beings in fiction are unfair. Look at the stuff we have had gods do to people, and ask of people. As far back as we've been writing about gods and goddesses and other mystical beings (for example, beings who control lightning and grant wishes), it's usually patently unfair when their world intrudes upon ours.

Everyone has their own read, but I don't think this is a valid criticism of the film because I didn't necessarily think that Kelly was endorsing the morality test and wagging his finger at humanity. I'm sure he wanted us to think about how we effect each other and what we would do to (and for) another person, but in the context of the film I don't think we're supposed to go "Oh, yeah. That'll teach those humans a lesson! Get moral you dogs!". Maybe it's just because I didn't see the same anti-human message you did in it.

Though, to be clear, I think it's a downer of a film and not all that thrilling or rewarding. I just think the problems lie outside of the moral solidity of the box test.

[–] jetblacknewme 12 years ago

Au contraire... I believe that of course a billionaire has a desire for another million dollars - but (generally speaking) not so much that he'd be prepared to kill for it, and in such bizarre circumstances too (e.g. not through regular shady dealings, bumping off rivals etc - illegal and risky, but known and understood).

And you misunderstand me on my criticism of the morality test. It's not that I think that Kelly is transmitting some "anti-human message" to us, or criticising our morals. Not at all. I just think that it was a very flawed and over-simplistic idea for a film, in that you can kind of see what Kelly is trying to portray (as you say, what we would do to and for another person), but for that to be believable on any level and for us to engage in the film, he must present to us a set up circumstances with sufficient complexity to resonate with our own understanding of humanity - which is that we ARE complex, and there are many factors which would render the whole box test laughably ineffectual.

It's a failing on a basic screenwriting level, is what I'm saying, not a misunderstanding of Kelly's "message" on my part. Especially disappointing as Donnie Darko was wonderfully complex and textured, and not just weird for weird's sake.

[–] therefdotcom 12 years ago

i could not agree more.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] therefdotcom 12 years ago

very very good points. thank you for that. i had enough ciritcism towards this movie as it is, but now i can add those points too.

one things though: i might be wrong, but as far as i know the aliens influenced this particular surroundings to bring them into financial difficulties, which makes it even worse in terms of being a "morality test".

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] biggusdickus-1 12 years ago

The box test is a pisspoor measure of altruism, seeing as the unknown person on the other end will die regardless if the button is pressed or not -- maybe today or maybe in a few years, but inevitably.

Pressing the button merely moves the unknowable date of reckoning for one individual life; the person still dies either way.

Meanwhile, multiple lives might benefit from the million bucks in ways that could never be possible without this unforeseeable stroke of luck. Mr. & Mrs. Dingle might have used that money to help many, many others -- maybe by opening a rehab center for underprivileged amputees, for example, or a quarantine facility for mothers with ridiculously fake Southern accents.

(Or they could have blown it all on hookers & Skittles; we'll never know thanks to the shortsightedness of the booga-booga beings who cooked up the box test.)

In short, the choice is NOT one million dollars vs one life; the choice is the potential benefit to the affected family of this particular million bucks right here right now vs a few days' difference in the length of life of one (probably insured) stranger.

Stupid, stupid test no matter how you look at it. An advanced race that would devote time and resources to these sophomoric shenanigans is doomed to defeat via catatonic fixation once it encounters any given Japanese human tv game show.

peace
--Big Gus

[–] postghost 11 years ago

Good argument except for the obvious point one considers before pushing the button...are you willing to benefit from the death of another? It matters not how much the benefit as much as the willingness to benefit from the death of another. People kill for no monetary gain remember. Simply, does one put oneself before another regardless of what happens to the other?

[–] ace5000 11 years ago

True - some might push it without thinking twice. Good thought provoking film.

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

good thought provoking film? you gotta be kidding me. the short story: yes. the twilight zone episode: yes. this movie: no friggin way.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] ace5000 11 years ago

Ya - I liked it Mr. derogatory _______.

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

good for you mr. lowered expectations. ;)

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

that's not the question here. the problem lies a) within the fact that the people testing to make a moral statement are completely and utterly immoral, which makes it hypocritical and which then renders the whole thing nonsense, yes even torture and b) that even further the people testing create an artificial problematic situation to force the test subjects into jeopardy. they did not kill for greed, they killed for survival, which would not have been up for discussion if it wasn't for the people testing.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dunker56 11 years ago

jetblacknewme,

I think yer missing the point and also making assumptions.

1) at no point are we led to believe the test is EXACTLY the same from one circumstance to the next. Perhaps a billionaire doesn't inherit but a million but in fact something far far more financially rewarding, or a different but equally attractive offer.

2) During the film we see the Employees sabotage the Boxee's life. The astronaut (James Marden) doesn't get to go to space, the teacher (Diaz) employment is terminated.
They are placed into an immediate financial dilemma to see if it is enough to warrant the pushing of the button or not.

3) The fact that they push the button when James marsden character is driving a Corvette and they live in a plush house is really the point. These people are RICH by any means, they probably represent (in that era) the top 1% earners/rich, yet STILL they push the button, doom an innocent... and for what? So they can keep their enormous house, the corvette??!! James Marsden character was ALREADY offered a safe job with NASA after the rejection letter for astronaut/space.

4) The alien messenger (mr half face) already disclosed that unless the human race can put themselves SECOND to the survival of the species then we're ultimately doomed. I think this test, in this context was very valid. This film highlighted humanities ultimate downfall, greed. And if you look into greed seriously enough you will actually see IT REALLY IS the source of all evil and wrongness this planet has arrived at. From the banking problem to peak oil issues, power, greed is at the root of it all. Someone in a position of power screwing over the masses for his own personal benefit is what is bringing humanity to the brink of extinction (ok a bit dramatic but u get my point).

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

well, you actually broke your own "point" there.

quote:"Someone in a position of power screwing over the masses"

which describes very well the aliens, who are the ones that are testing, which renders the test hypocritical and therefore useless.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] dunker56 11 years ago

Yes and No. The aliens are perhaps acting violently but it is to the benefit of their own race and perhaps our planet and resources (as well as acting in the best interest of earths other inhabitants). Rather than come along and just kill us all they are seeing if we have what it takes to 'make it' as a species (and therefore be less likely to be a threat to them in the future). Yes they may kill every single one of us but if we pass the test it is because we have left behind our greedy selfish ways and instead become a compassionate species (which is REQUIRED if we are going to make it. This we can conclude equates to wiping ourselves out etc, WW3).

[–] therefdotcom 11 years ago

actually no. if they would want to help us, with all the technology we have seen in the movie, they could do that very easily. nevertheless they just chose to torture us AND our children for their own amusement. despicable to the limit.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

[–] NuclearrWessels 9 years ago

If my kid was constantly sick because I couldn't afford to give it the proper life I'd look into adopting it out/surrendering it to a relative. Would never cross my mind to take a life because I'm an unfit parent.