MovieChat Forums > Constantine (2005) Discussion > Question about Isabel (spoilers)

Question about Isabel (spoilers)

posted 15 years ago by Spark-Plug
17 replies | jump to latest

I was a bit confused at the end of this film and would really appreciate help/interpretation/theories:

Did Isabel commit suicide because she thought Mammon would use her to enter our dimension (she being just the sort of powerful psychic he needed), i.e. kill herself for a noble reason? Or did she do it because she saw what was coming and couldn't face it?

If she did it to prevent Mammon's birth, she should have entered heaven, as she was doing a selfless thing - rather like Constantine killing himself in order to warn Lucifer and then refusing extra time on her behalf.

If not, I don't see why Lucifer would be able to release her from Hell so easily - presumably, God is the one who ultimately decides the fate of souls (or C would be royally forked).

I am a disgusting pedant, I know, but a lot of people on IMDB dissect plot points ad infinitum and this has been niggling at me!

Much obliged to all who can be bothered to engage in what I know is a bit of a pointless discussion...

[–] andy156-746-125142 15 years ago

I always thought that she didn't commit suicide at all. I just understood it that she was possessed and the demon threw her off the cliff to bring her sister into the picture. But after reading what you wrote it does seem like its possible for to commit suicide. Maybe she was protecting her sister because she was the one they were after all along.

[–] Spark-Plug 15 years ago

Ah yes,good point, thank you for replying, Andy!

Perhaps they did throw her off the building - my only problem with that was that surely God would know that she hadn't tried to kill herself on purpose and would therefore take her straight up to heaven...but as Constantine says at the end, he works in mysterious ways!

[–] TheCommenteer 10 years ago

I know I'm late on this, but anyway...

My interpretation of it is like prison or any job etc. With everything going on, sometimes things get overlooked. She did something bad to prevent bad things from happening, but the reason behind it was overlooked and she was sent to hell for her actions.

The same thing applies to when Constantine killed himself the second time. God didn't care about his reasons, he only responded when the sacrifice was made. The kid with an ant farm analogy may be useful here.

Basically the point being, God doesn't pay all that much attention. He's the default people try to get in with, so just does his own thing and lets *beep* sort itself out.

As I say, this is my interpretation.

[–] BenTaylor3907 14 years ago

Don't forget that before she "jumped", you could hear the roof door opening behind her and a voice whispering "Isabel", causing her to look back.

Personally, I always thought she did indeed commit suicide in hopes to stop Gabriel/Mammon's plans from coming into fruition. And I agree that she should have been granted access to heaven for trying stop Mammon from rising. I mean, Angela said that Isabel loved God. That He was her only friend or whatever. Its hard to think God would punish her like that.

Gabriel said that all you have to do to be granted access into Heaven was to repent and ask for forgiveness. You would have thought Isabel would have done so before she committed suicide.

Or (since she was psychic) see everything play out and not ask for forgiveness in order to save Constantine? I mean, she would have seen that she would eventually have gone to Heaven. Or maybe I'm thinking too much into it. Who knows? *sigh*

[–] stoo-7 14 years ago

I think the reason she was trapped in Hell, was due to her not being granted a full Catholic funeral from the priest/bishop that they visited to plead for her soul. Due to what they believed was a 'suicide'.

I thought this was touched upon in the film?

[–] mikekearn 14 years ago

For Catholics, suicide is a mortal sin. That means that if you commit suicide, purposely taking your own life with full knowledge of what you are doing, then you are denied entrance to heaven and are sent directly to hell.

As shown in the film, even though Isabel killed herself because she didn't want to be used to bring Mammon into our world, it was still a mortal sin and she was condemned for it.

Constantine killed himself for a similar reason; he wanted to bring forth Lucifer so he could stop Mammon from being brought out. Constantine was still damned at that point, and would have gone to hell. Luckily for him, the devil owed him a favor for helping to stop Mammon, and Constantine earned his redemption by sacrificing his own life to save Isabel's soul. That is why he was going to heaven, not because he killed himself to stop Mammon.

Kind of a late reply, but I hope it helps anyway.

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"I will not succumb to temptation, unless she's cute."

[–] Spark-Plug 14 years ago

@mikekearn - brilliant. Great point, mate.

[–] mikekearn 14 years ago

Glad I could help.

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"I will not succumb to temptation, unless she's cute."

[–] stevesk0011 14 years ago

Yeah but here is something weird.....at the beginning we hear a voice say "Isabel" softly when she goes up there on the roof. Then we hear her say "Constantine" on the video playback that one time but not when she plays it back again. Then when Constantine witnesses Isabel's suicide in Hell he says "Isabel" just like the voice at the beginning of the movie; and Isabel looks back at him. So it was his voice at the beginning. weird....

I am the Walrus - Goo Goo Ga'joob

[–] himiyio 14 years ago

I like it that in suicide deaths, the punishment is that you are forced to relive your death. So in hell, it was fitting that we saw Isabel at the exact same spot, re-enacting her own suicide.

[–] subase 12 years ago

This is bull.

Constantine DID NOT "earn his redemption by sacrificing his own life to save isabel's soul", that did not happen you are imagining it. Constantine killed himself so he could meet the devil and tell him his son was up to no good.

Constantine asking for isabels soul to go to heaven (presumably) was a favor granted by the devil for telling him about his son.

Isabel being 'released' from hell establishes that Isabel did not belong in hell, and instead was in hell not suffering eternally but more of in a limbo state. This could have been caused by either her committing suicide against her catholic beliefs or not being granted a catholic funeral, probably the former. That isabel did not belong in hell could be easily seen when Constantine travels to hell and finds isabel reliving he moment of her death seemingly unaffected by everything around her; in a limbo state.

Considering isabel knew about constantine and directly contacted her sister to find him from hell. It's safe to assume she knew that he was instrumental to either saving the world, her soul from hell and her sisters life.

[–] kaskait 12 years ago

The original poster was right.

Constantine was granted absolution for making an ultimate sacrifice. He did not ask for his own redemption, he pleaded for the girl who committed suicide.

The devil backed up that plea by explaining what happened to Isabel and why. The devil could have just released Isabel but that doesn't guarantee she would go to heaven. It would just mean she could be wandering in limbo for the rest of eternity. Obviously whatever information he gave when he released her(Mammon's plot) allowed Isabel to be forgiven.

Although Constantine was granted absolution, the devil again interceded and argued against his right to heaven. Then he healed Constantine with a new deal with god on who would win Constantine's soul.

[–] Spark-Plug 11 years ago

Thanks Kaskait, You said it better than I could! But what's your take on Isabel's suicide?

[–] kaskait 11 years ago

In Catholicism suicide is a mortal sin. Even if Isabel thought she was preventing evil. She ultimately lost faith in the power of God to deal with anything that was going wrong.

But this is at the core of every argument against religion, is God all knowing/all powerful or not? This film avoids the question by having Lucifer intercede.

A humanist would state that Isabel made a sacrifice to save humanity and that deserves redemption. A true Catholic would recognize that she lost her faith, denied god and committed a sin.

[–] Dejay 9 years ago

That is an interesting take as well. My opinion is that it's "because rules". Doesn't matter how stupid or unethical it is: Rules are rules and if you breach them you are damned (one reason why Constantine is so cynical).

But her loosing her faith that it would "work out somehow" is another explanation.

[–] hal-9010 11 years ago

Isabel had that devils son tattoo on her wrist, which made me think she was possessed and thus was not in control of her suicide... or perhaps she killed her self to kill the demon growing inside her.... Either way she must have realized she was being used and wanted to prevent that at any cost, even her own damnation in hell.

Satan later freed her as her suicide was not to end her own life (as Constantines attempt was in his wee years) but it was to imprison the demon inside her - and I think the mortal sin is to end ones own life, and thus her soul could escape hell.

___________
• I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman •

[–] reaseltbim 11 years ago

The scene when she dies is super creepy. It always bothers me. She is all alone up there in the roof and then she looks behind her like there is someone there.

Then she jumps... so creepy