MovieChat Forums > Walk on Water (2005) Discussion > The USA and the ham-fisted 'ending'

The USA and the ham-fisted 'ending'


I have lived in the US for the past two decades, and can honestly state that the US is one of the most homophobic, morally backwards, and obtuse nations in what we refer to as "Western civilization" -- furthermore, that nation is moving BACKWARDS as I write this.

For that reason -- and probably that reason alone -- the "ending" of the movie took the form of a ham-fisted, out of nowhere marriage between Eyal and Pia. Had the movie gone where it should have gone (in terms of authenticity with respect to the dynamics that unfolded between Axel and Eyal), audiences in the US would have shunned the movie or dismissed it out of hand (bear in mind that we are referring to a nation that cannot even tolerate the concept of "civil unions" between members of the same sex). The "ending" was tacked on for the sake of US audiences, to salvage this brilliant little movie from box-office failure in that nation. The "ending" was bereft of merit, and had only one redeeming feature -- the dream in which Eyal and Axel were once again together...

I am openly gay, and saw the relationship unfolding between Axel and Eyal very early in the movie. Eyal was jealous, confused, upset, and at a complete loss to understand his own feelings as he abandoned Pia at the gay bar -- he did not know or understand it, but he had formed a bond with Axel and saw Axel's behavior in the gay bar as a "betrayal" of that bond. Later, when Axel explained gay sex to Eyal, Axel deliberately and (in my opinion) carefully stated that he classified himself as neither a top nor a bottom -- something which I think he did so as to preempt any foreclosure of a future possible relationship between the two of them. His reference to Eyal and other "straight boys" was such a coy tease that I cannot understand how anybody could have missed this dead give-away! This was blatant flirtation!

The TRUE ending of the movie -- the scene in which Eyal is comforted and caressed by Axel -- speaks for itself. Both characters have undergone profound psychological transformation. Axel, for the first time, feels hatred for those who wish to harm him (the punks at the underpass). Eyal, for the first time, feels awe for life itself (and is hence unable to complete his mission). They know each other and love each other, and, for the first time, this can be acknowledged for what it is...

(I was reminded of a similar scene involving incredibly close bonding, in a movie named "Mysterious Skin," which ended on a similar note...)

It saddens me that this little gem of a movie had to be mangled so as to make it palatable to US tastes at the box-office. Pia's character undergoes no development whatsoever; she is merely part of the scenery (in terms of the dynamics between the characters).

This is a movie about seduction, in which the seducer does not, at first, even know if he wants the seduced...

PHILIP CHANDLER

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I don't think it's that important if he is bi- or homosexual, but we do get a hint at the end, when he's writing to Axel. We are told he is dreaming about him - would suggest they are more than just close friends. It's a bit like the discussion that has been going on about "Brokeback Mountain" - is he, or is he not. Well both stories are about 2 souls falling in love, but it seems important to label people instead of just accepting that love can have many faces.

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I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree with it. First of all, I'm curious where you lived before America - every country has its own problems. America may have a lot, but the rest of "Western civilization" isn't nearly as open and tolerant as people like to think.

As for the movie, I don't think I know anyone in America who's even heard of it. I don't imagine Uchovsky and Fox based their approach just on what some people on the other side of the world think.

I agree that the ending felt very thrown-on and a bit unecessary (I've heard that the actual agent did this, but they could have laid some more groundwork between Eyal and Pia if they wanted to keep it in). But you have to remember that there are also many people in Israel, Europe, South America... who are homophobic and wouldn't to see a film with two men ending up together.

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You asked where I lived before moving to America, so I will tell you everything.

I was born and raised in South Africa, and graduated from South Africa's largest English-speaking University (the University of the Witwatersrand) with majors in Psychology and Computer Science. About eight months after graduating, I moved to the USA.

My decision to move to the USA was based on a sense of hopelessness and depression that I associated with South Africa's future. Remember that the mid-1980s (I left the country in 1986) were the height of the apartheid years -- the country was under a permanent "State of Emergency" that had been declared by then-President P.W. Botha (now the most reviled President in South African history). I decided to move to the US because the immigration process was easier than would have been the case had I chosen to move to another country.

I lived in New York City (NYC) for almost 20 years, punctuated by Information Technology projects in Hawaii, New Jersey, Rhode Island, California, and Illinois. I have seen a lot of the US, and I know the US very well (from the perspective of a person wishing to compare the moral climate of that nation with that of other nations). I repeat – the US is headed full-tilt backwards under a President who is a megalomaniac who would be a king. The US is one of the most homophobic nations in the world, notwithstanding its oft-repeated claims to the effect that it is a bastion of enlightenment. It took a decision handed down by the US Supreme Court in 2003 to decriminalize gay sex in about 14 states that still had laws on their books making it a crime to engage in gay sex (see Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003)). In Lawrence, the US Supreme Court explicitly and bluntly reversed an earlier decision (Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186 (1986)) upholding state sodomy statutes! When Bowers was handed down in 1986, about half of the 50 states had sodomy prohibitions on their books. Although these prohibitions were very seldom enforced directly, their collateral effects were sweeping, declaring gay people to be unconvicted criminals in those 25 states. During the 17 year period between the handing down of Bowers and the handing down of Lawrence, gay rights activists succeeded in getting state supreme courts to strike down state sodomy statutes on state constitutional grounds in about 12 states (such decisions are immune to review by the US Supreme Court, provided they in no way discuss or place reliance upon US Constitutional issues). Thus, when the US Supreme Court handed down Lawrence, only 14 states still had such statutes on their books. Lawrence was handed down on June 26, 2003, and it has changed the legal landscape quite dramatically. In addition to overruling Bowers, the US Supreme Court took the unusual step of implicitly apologizing to the gay community for what it had done in Bowers. For more on this issue, I refer the reader to http://gayequalityandthelaw.blogspot.com/2007/06/recent-message-on-wwwartsandfaithcom.html for a treatise on US Constitutional law as pertains to this topic. For the purposes of this thread, be assured that the US, despite the US Supreme Court victory of 2003, remains deeply homophobic.

Only one state (Massachusetts) permits gay Americans to marry, and although this is a significant victory, gay marriages entered into in Massachusetts do not enjoy the protection of any of the 1,049 federal benefits that accrue to married couples. However, other states are slowly coming around. Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey, California, Oregon, and Hawaii have all created “civil unions” (Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New Jersey) or “domestic partnerships” (Hawaii, Oregon, and California). In these eight states, gay couples can enter into civil unions / domestic partnerships, which recognize all of the substantive guarantees and privileges accorded married people at the state level (about 300 rights in each state) without the name. Efforts to repeal these measures have been unsuccessful, and an Iowa trial court found the Iowa ban on same-sex marriages to be in violation of the Iowa state constitution, resulting in the case being slated for a hearing before the Iowa Supreme Court (which may affirm or reverse the trial court).

As a gay man, I would probably be OK were I to walk through the streets of New York City holding hands with a boyfriend. However, I would probably be violently assaulted were I to walk through the streets of Des Moines, Iowa holding hands with a boyfriend.

It remains legal to fire a person for being gay in about 30 of the 50 states. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended) does not include sexual orientation as a characteristic that may not be taken into consideration by a prospective (or actual) employer, landlord, or provider of public accommodations (e.g. restaurateur, barber, hotelier). About 20 states, responding to this lack of coverage, have reacted by passing statewide statutes that prohibit such discrimination. The result of this is that you may be fired from your job simply for being gay (this has happened to me – not long ago, I was fired from a high-paying position as a computer consultant when the bastards for whom I worked learned that I was gay). The extent of the protection you enjoy from such discrimination is a function of your geographic location. Opponents of adding sexual orientation to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 claim that to do so would be to confer upon gay people “special protections” – to which the US Supreme Court, in a discrimination-related case, made the following observation: “We find nothing special in the protections…[withheld]. These are protections taken for granted by most people either because they already have them or do not need them; these are protections against exclusion from an almost limitless number of transactions and endeavors that constitute ordinary civic life in a free society.” (see Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620 (1996)) What these opponents overlook is the fact that the law works both ways in those states that have adopted such measures – a gay employer is barred from firing a straight employee in exactly the same way that a straight employer is barred from firing a gay employee. Also, these opponents have no problems with the existing Civil Rights Act – it is only when the addition of sexual orientation to the protective ambit of this legislation is contemplated that opponents react with cries that such an amendment would violate the US Constitution. In other words, the “I’m all right, Jack” mentality continues to disease the social discourse with respect to this issue.

Relatively few of the 50 states have hate crimes statutes on their books that include hatred of the victim’s sexual orientation as a motivation that, if involved in a decision to assault or kill a gay victim, will result in the charges against the perpetrator being escalated, or will result in the punishment of the perpetrator being enhanced. Again, the few states that do have such statutes on their books have statutes that cut both ways – if I, as an advocate for gay equality, attack a heterosexual icon based on hatred of heterosexuals, I can be subjected to enhanced punishment in those states where sexual orientation is covered by the protective ambit of such statutes.

I compare this status with the status enjoyed by gay people in the UK, where I now live and work. Gay citizens of the UK can marry in all but name – Civil Partnerships include all of the benefits and privileges of heterosexual marriage, right down to the right to immigrate to the UK if the person concerned enters into a Civil Partnership with a UK citizen. Full equality has been realized in all but name, and employment discrimination is strictly prohibited. The law goes even further than US state laws that offer protection to people on the basis of their sexual orientation – whereas US state laws exempt religious organizations such as Catholic adoption agencies from complying with anti-discrimination statutes, the provisions of the UK Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) are far less generous to such religious organizations. Senior clergymen and clergywomen still retain the right to discriminate – however, a Catholic adoption agency in the UK has to consider gay couples as well as heterosexual couples as adoptive parents (all other things being equal) if it wishes to remain in business (several such agencies have closed their doors rather than abide by the new regulations, thus depriving children of loving homes as a direct result of their actions). Here in the UK, in the larger cities where I have lived and worked, sexual orientation simply does not seem to be an issue about which people get riled up. I attribute this in large measure to the (thankful) absence of an organized “evangelical” Christian movement in the UK, and very much hope that these people will never do to UK society what they have managed to do to US society.

Consider other “Western” societies. Gay marriage is available in both name and substance in Canada, South Africa, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Spain. Gay marriage is available in substance but not in name in Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, the UK, and several South American nations…

There is no doubt about it – the US is woefully behind the times…


PHILIP CHANDLER

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i agree with you somewhat about the US, except you think it's moving backwards. where in the US do you live? what groups of people are you associating with? look backwards yourself, through it's history. it is moving forward, just at a snails pace, and frequent, VERY frustrating, little steps backwards. moving forward is a constant and hard struggle, but ignoring progress is POWERFULLY damaging, so PLEASE don't do that! please? but yes, the US can be an incredibly hypocritical and ignorant place, as well as PLENTY of other countries with terrible laws & social practices.
i just don't understand where you get this information that the director made his movie the way it is because of america! that's a bizarre assumption, especially for a movie from israel!!! did the filmmakers tell you this? did you read an interview where they say so? otherwise, i'm sure it's basically what he wanted, or else he probably would have had his name removed from the credits, or been very vocal about it.
place your frustration where it should be, please. i get very irritated when filmmakers 'de-gay' their movies, or end the story of their gay/bi/whatever character(s) with a 'straight' relationship.

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Well let me start by saying I am an American, and am gay as well. I agree that there is widespread intolerance in the USA today - especially with regard to gay people and that it is getting worse.

I disagree with the premise that the ending was 'ham-fisted' or crafted for the mainstream American audience.

As a gay man I also would have enjoyed seeing the lead men in an open romantic relationship. But i actully feel it would have been a disservice to the story.

The seeds were planted to prepare the viewer for romance with the sister. It wasnt more obvious or stressed because it was not important to the story.

The story is one of purification - and the relationship between two very different men who come to love each other profoundly.

A jewish man who has comitted much violence and blames himself for the death of many (justifiable or not), as well as the suicide of his wife, - a man who has come to hate himself - is purified by the honest and pure love of a gay german man.

That's what the ending is all about. A gentle loving gay man is presented as lightning rod that brings light to dark places in the sole. For me it was all the more powerful because there was NOT a sexual relationship betwen the two.

That is a powerful message that I for one would not trade for scenes of a gay romance.

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I feel there were some "seeds," as others have put it.

When Eyal, Axel, and Pia go out to dinner, it starts off looking more like a date between Eyal and Pia. And while Eyal may have been rather cold, Pia seemed interested in him - particularly when he's taking Axel to the airport and she tells him to call her next time he's around.

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I thought it was a great film and very interesting to see a flim about topics that I wouldn't necessarily experience in day to day life(attitude towards Arabs living in Israel, Israeli view towards modern day Germany) etc.

TomTrueMan, no offense, but I think you are completely wrong about the whole gay relationship. At best you could argue that there are two or three scenes where there might be a *hint* towards something more than a friendship. However these scenes are very open ended and could easily be explained by other more plausable explanations. For example, him walking off from the nightclub could easily be annoyance that the German had not told him that he was gay. In any case, you are taking one interpretation and running with it as the only valid interpretation, just because it is what you are keen to believe. Perhaps you would be taken more seriously if you were a little more objective and simply argued that it is your interpretation/belief that the film suggests a gay relationship.

Also, as for the real life story that the director suggests this story was based on. Yes, in the real life story there was a gay relationship, but in the real life story the mossad agent's wife killed herself by hanging, and the mossad agent later went to University. In other words, the film differs from the real life story in a number of other ways, so just because the real life story had a gay relationship, does not mean the film necessarily did.

In any case, I think it would have been cliched and unrealistic if the two men had got together(based solely on what was contained in the film). I found their relationship as friends to be much more interesting than any romance that could have been forced into the story. Too many gay films go for idealised and unrealistic plotlines like this, which makes the films unbelievable and boring. I do however agree that the marriage between the Israeli and the sister was an unbelieve and poor ending, based on the films content


Finally, anyone who argues either way that the main character could not have been gay simply because he was macho and not camp, is the biggest idiot of them all.

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while the scenes with Axel were dripping with sexual tension and innuendo. You may be more comfortable thinking they were "just friends", but it was clear to me it was going to go a lot farther than that.


Well that's your interpretation of the film and you are entitled to your opinion. However as I have said, I disagree with this intepretation and I think you are basing your belief on scant evidence in the film. I think there are many more plausible explanations for the scenes you mention and I think it is rather simplistic to boil everything down to sex and romance. Life is more complicated than that and I believe it is quite likely that the relationship/friendship between the two leads was more complex and interesting than any simple sexual one that you are keen to believe in.

In any case, the film does not say definitively either way so neither of us can prove each other wrong. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

I do think the film is much more interesting without any unbelievable romantic relationship shoe-horned in and had the two got together in the film, I would have been much less impressed with the film as a whole.

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Rachel,

You write:

<<I understand that in real life, the story on which this film is losely based on, a homosexual relationship did occur, but have you ever thought that perhaps the two directors applied some artistic liscence to the film? Perhaps they thought, despite being homosexual themselves, that the film would fare better with the relationship between the characters of Eyal and Axel downplayed, or perhaps they felt that a relationship between Eyal and Pia would be more appealing to the audience?>>

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Don't you understand how this does violence to the dynamics of the movie? It was quite clear -- immediately before the sudden introduction of the fact that Eyal had married Pia -- that the true romance that unfolded during the body of the movie was a romance between Eyal and Axel, with Eyal slowly but inexorably falling in love with Axel. It was quite clear to me, as a gay man, that Eyal was becoming more and more interested in Axel as the movie progressed. It was quite clear that Eyal struggled to understand the feelings he experienced as he fell in love with Axel. No matter how you slice it -- no matter how you view it -- the directors mangled this film to make it (as you yourself state, expressly) "more appealing to the audience." This begs the question -- which audience were the directors pandeting to, and why was it necessary to make these changes to the plot in order to make the movie more appealing to that audience?

The answer, to me, is obvious. Although this was an Israeli movie, the directors wanted to make this movie appealing to the largest English-speaking audience in the world (the audience in the USA). In order to accomplish this, the directors had to mangle this movie so as to prevent it from raising "issues" with people described by another writer as "backward yokels in the red states" (certainly a pithy description!). This was terribly sad -- the underlying plot should not have been distorted so as to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Consider the complexity of the relationship between Eyal and Axel (I put Eyal's name first because ir was clear to me that, until the end of the movie, Eyal was more interested in Axel than Axel was interested in Eyal, although Axel definitely fell in love with Eyal). Not only did Eyal fall in love with another man -- he fell in love with a GERMAN man (whose grandfather was a wanted Nazi war-criminal!).

These realities are too important to dismiss for the purposes of satisfying any audience...



PHILIP CHANDLER

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The director, during an interview about this movie, stated that the real-life Mossad agent (this movie was based on facts) fell in love with, and had a romantic and sexual relationship with, the young German man! The Mossad agent later married the sister, but there is no getting around the fact that he had a sexual and emotional relationship with the gentle young German...

I agree that this movie was about purification, but I do believe that it was "bowdlerized" so as not to create "issues" with what another person described as the yokels in the red states.

Why, given the fact that the gentle young German man and the Mossad agent actually had a sexual relationship, was this theme not included in the theatrical release? I can only assume that this was a marketing ploy. Yes, this was an Israeli movie -- but movies are usually made so as to appeal to as broad an audience as possible.

What I found so revealing about this movie was the ending. Eyal silently went into Axel's bedroom, sat down on Axel's bed, and started to cry in Axel's arms. Eyal had finally learned something that so many people never seem to learn -- there is so little true love in the world that whenever and wherever it is found, it should be celebrated and encouraged.

I object to the removal of what I view as a critical plot detail, and I cannot find any reason for its rejection other than that which I have asserted...

PHILIP CHANDLER

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In case anbody began to think that nobody in the USA had even heard of this film: I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts (yes--in the only state in America where marriage equality exists, though without the Federally-mandated guarantees and benefits of heterosexual marriage) and it played very successfully in a local theatre that specializes in non-Hollywood product for several months. This is unusual and clearly indicates that it was popular enough to be held over beyond the routine one or two weeks.

It was my favorite movie of the year in which it was released, and I saw it five or six times, bringing different friends each visit. I felt the ending was awkward and contrived--and not worthy of what preceded it, but that it was the only flaw in the film. I didn't find myself offended that the burgeoning love relationaship between the two men remained physically unconsummated, even though I may, as a gay man, have wished something deeper had taken place. I was happy that they had each learned so much and grown so significantly through their developing friendship and that a lifelong love and sharing blossomed for them.

This same theatre will be booking THE BUBBLE and I look forward to seeing it.

Love and peace to all.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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Milliedill, Eytan Fox's most recent film "The Bubble" will be playing at the Kendal Square Cinema starting this Friday. I'm really looking forward to seeing it. I loved Ohad Knoller in "Yossi & Jagger."

"That's one a the two things I need right now."

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Jeff - thanks for the insightful post. Of all the interesting thoughts on this thread, yours come closest to my own.

I am grateful to tomtrueman for being one of the people who persuaded me to buy this extraordinary film, and a lot of what he says about it is most perceptive. I also agree with a lot of the other posts about the film and also the persistent homophobia in much of the U.S. But I respectfully disagree that the only acceptable interpretation of the film is that Eyal got the raging hots for Axel and that the filmmakers were too (greedy/cowardly/what??) to give the two gay guys their much-desired roll-in-the-hay at the end of the film.

Sexual tension? Absolutely! I know that my 'gaydar' picked up a whole lot of signals along the way. And, yes, I dearly wanted the guys to end up together. There were many points in the movie when I expected them to hug and whisper 'I love you.' But I agree with you that the film is stronger because that did not happen. When they finally did embrace, it was apparent to me that they had developed a deep mutual love which was not based on sexual attraction (although I would not say it was entirely devoid of it either).

For me, the fact that the "real" characters had an affair before the mossad guy married the sister is irrelevant. This is not a documentary, and I agree with your idea that the filmmakers were using the "based on" occurence to reach a higher truth, not just a larger audience.

This was a 'spy film' - a depiction of Eyal's world of concealment and deceit. Things are ambiguous, or contrary to appearances. Eyal lied to Axel throughout the film (not to say that he did not also reveal some truths as well); why should we think he was only lying verbally? I think he was coming on to Axel as part of his role to get Axel to respond emotionally and reveal the existence of the grandfather. And I think the filmmakers were leading us, the audience, on as well. Sure there was a lot of sexual tension, and certainly Eyal the tough guy protested too much. We were meant to think that a romance was (or might be) developing between the two guys. But in the end, all the roles were reversed.

(I agree that there was a major gay subtext - for instance that whole thing about the suntan lotion - Pia says make sure Axel uses it, and of course Eyal has to apply it when they get buff. It's like - okay, you've seen Sommersturm and Beautiful Thing and how many other gay movies, so first there's the lotion on the back, then the guys have to do the naughty and end up in the sack together. But no, not this time.)

I don't think Eyal's marriage to Pia came entirely "out of the blue." There were indications that Eyal might want a family. The film opened with Eyal watching the family on the boat and trying to avoid a connection with the boy. [He did kill the father, but not blithely.] There was no indication that Eyal did not love Iris; his reaction to her death and his subsequent statements about her were all consistent with a loving relationship. And his diffidence toward Pia might well have been due to a desire to avoid an emotional involvement (on his part) that could have interfered with his task, along with his assumption that Axel, not Pia, had the information he needed. In this context, his comment to Pia at the restaurant that she looked 'different' confirms his interest in her.

And I am not convinced that Axel was in love or even in lust with Eyal. I think he found him attractive, but he seemed to look at him with a sort of amused curiosity. Axel's fling with Rafik, the Palestinian guy, was not a ploy to make Eyal jealous. Axel was into the guy, literally and figuratively, and for reasons unrelated to Eyal's existence. Then again, if it had been in the cards (in the script, the bastardized script! says tomtrueman), Axel would have slept with Eyal too.

There are a lot of us who want something of a fairytale ending to our "gay movies." Check out the imdb boards for Get Real and Sommersturm - see how many people wanted Steven/John and Tobi/Leo (or Tobi/Achim) to live together happily forever after. But it can't always happen. It could plausibly have happened here, but it did not. Eyal did, I think, find Axel attractive in ways he could never fully comprehend. But I do not think he was a repressed homo.

I think the ending strengthened this movie. Eyal became a different man, with a different perspective on pretty much everything, including sexuality. Axel was the hero for causing that change. (Not for killing his grandfather - which he might have done to cover for Eyal or, just as plausibly, to punish his parents and atone for the sins of the family. Axel had experienced his own transformation,confronting evil directly in the subway, and here was a chance to exorcise it from his home.)

So the message of the movie was not that love, homo or hetero, conquers all. While Axel's 'gayness' was an intrinsic part of his being and a major element of the story, it was, as you, jeff, pointed out (much more concisely than I) because of his pure humanity that he could bring Eyal to transcend the nazi/jew/palestinian/straight/gay/life/death conflicts that beset him. This was the message of Eyal's dream. And for me, it makes a major pro-gay statement.

Now I can't wait to see 'The Bubble."

ps - Jeff - I sent you a private message.


"Nothing personal. Your name just happened to come up."

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I agree with leftbanker 100%.

Major themes of the film were reconciliation and breaking down barriers. The ending completed the movie, and in no way detracted from it.

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Haha, that reminds me of a story one of my Hebrew teachers used to tell us about when she first moved to the States. She happened to see her friend sitting a few rows away at the symphony and started calling to him...his name was Pines, and she couldn't understand why everyone around her looked mortified.

Anyway, I think there were a few subtle hints here and there that Eyal sort of liked Pia (or maybe he was just trying to convince himself he did after realizing he had feelings for Axel, which freaked him out) but I was shocked to see him end up with her at the end. When they first showed him with the baby I thought he and Axel had adopted.

By the way, I'm a straight woman, and anyone who somehow completely missed the gay vibes in the film is either completely oblivious or in complete denial. I was waiting for them to kiss through the entire movie!


Cheney's got a gun

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Plain and simple, when I play the film for friends, I always stop the movie at the end of the scene where Axel consoles him at the end of the film. The discussions with my friends that ensue are amazing (well, on the two occasions I've done it with different sets of friends) speculating as to whether or not Axel and Eyal explore a more physical relationship after that, or whether they remain friends. Rarely, if ever, has anyone brought up the idea of Axel's sister and Eyal winding up together. And then both times, when we had finished the discussions (sometimes hours later) I'll say.. oh.. there's an extra bit of ending. And it's unanimous- everyone HATES it!

Just my two cents.

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You've probably read in other threads here that the director himself confirmed that the two men DID have a sexual relationship, as the real Mossad agent the story is based on did too, before he went on to marry his boyfriend's sister and have a child by her.

tom - As you know, I'm in agreement with you that there is a strong gay-attraction element that runs through the film. I read the part about the actual Mossad agent, and I think I recall the director saying that the Eyal-Axel relationship becomes a love story. But I missed the part where Fox stated that they had sex (which I assume is what you mean by 'a sexual relationship'). Can you give me the cite?

I continue to think that the director intentionally made many of the scenes ambiguous - the film is a political and sexual spy story where things are not what they seem. Different people see, and are meant to see, different things and draw differing conclusions depending on where they're coming from. So I'm not incredulous at the ending or at the fact that some people find it convincing.

"Nothing personal. Your name just happened to come up."

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As I see it the ending makes perfect sense. Given what we know about Eyal's character I think it's fair to say that even after all he and Axel have gone through he still can't - after a lifetime of conditioning - come to admit his real feelings for Axel. As a reaction, and in an attempt to mask even to himself his emotions, he marries Pia. This would not have been hard, for, as has been observed, she clearly has feelings for him. As such I don't think the ending was a cop out - it is the logical conclusion. Eyal is a rampant homophobic at the beginning of the movie. Indeed his entire identity is structured around being 'macho'. For such a person to then feel love for another man would go against everything he has believed up until that point. To come to terms with such a revelation would be near impossible. I think the fact that he marries Pia is essentially an admission of failure and perhaps it serves as admonishment of the continuing high levels of homophobia in society - which caused two people, genuinely in love, to stay apart because one of them was ashamed of what he felt.

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Philip,

I also agree with your remarks, but I was not "shocked" by the end. It is obvious that Eyal developped an attraction for Axel, but as it happens in real life, maybe he did not go through the full disclosure process. Eyal got married with the person closest to what Axel is: his sister Pia. On a similar way, Axel found for the first time a German partner (Eyal in the email mentions the name "Andreas", which is a typical German name), showing that their relationship had an effect on both: they found a peace of mind. That's why they are able to walk on water, now.

It is interesting to notice that in the Bible, the relationship between David and Gionathan is clearly homosexual. And guess what? David got married to Gionathan's sister. At the end, it's an archetyp: when you are not able (or maybe you don't want to) go the whole way (having a gay affair), you make a compromise. Just my point of view about this.

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We just saw this movie in my college class, and while the marriage to Pia came out of nowwhere and seemed very "tacked on" I was not convinced that Eyal had any feelings toward Axel above friendship. Note: I'm not gay, maybe that's why.

My analysis is that Eyal was attracted to Axel because Axel was everything he wasn't, he'd abandoned his heritage refusing to take over the family business and traveled the world, whereas Eyal was essentially still fighting his parent's war. Eyal seemed to take a morbid, embarassed curiosity in homosexuality, which as a straight person, heh, I do too. But ultimately he seemed to be more interested in Axel as someone who was free, while Eyal is stuck still essentially fighting WWII.

When he abandoned Pia and Axel at the club I thought it was not because he was jealous at Axel and Rafik, but because he saw Axel fraternizing with a Palestinian.

Now that I see it in this light, there was definitely some sort of romance there. There was that homoerotic imagery when they're showering on the beach, but I figured, heh, that's what they do "over there." Typical isolated american here, I know.

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I respect your opinion, but I can only respond by telling you that, as a gay man, I could see and read the subtext. I think that you would see this movie very differently if your were gay. Remember that about 80% of human communication is non-verbal. Eyal slowly fell in love with Axel, and his questions about gay sex were (in my opinion) a reflection of the fact that he knew, at an unconscious level, in which direction their relationship was headed...

Nobody has a lock on interpretation of this movie -- but the ending was so clear to me that I was astonished that this movie was playing in a "regular" theater, as opposed to a gay-themed theater. Bear in mind the fact that the director of this movie (which is based on a real-life story) stated, in an interview, that Eyal and Axel had a sexual relationship before Eyal married Pia.

I don't think you can get any more corroboration than that...



PHILIP CHANDLER

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i was prepared to see axel and eyal ending up together [even though eyal had been established as a heterosexual] but not eyal and piya as there was no hint of any chemistry between the two.
i think the most just ending would have been a relationship between the two men- not sexual, coz everything doesn't have to be so to be meaningful- but strong and lasting nevertheless.

www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/tuklifiedblog

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I've give much thought to this matter, and have been involved in more that a few discussions. I, for one, feel that the ending was justified.

Eyal is on only a character, but a symbol of the Israeli mythical male, the kind who was at the very center of the culture for many years, and is now undergoing a reexamination. After 90 minutes of myth deconstruction, I can imagine Fox and Uchovsky wanting to give him, and our society, some hope.

It makes more sense than an ending that could have been interpreted as a gay fantasy, with Eyal coming out.

I felt the same way with a very different film, "Boogie Nights, where Anderson wanted to give something good to those characters he cared so much about.

Other than that, I agree with most of what the OP wrote.


But I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

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I have lived in the US for the past two decades, and can honestly state that the US is one of the most homophobic, morally backwards, and obtuse nations in what we refer to as "Western civilization" -- furthermore, that nation is moving BACKWARDS as I write this.


I am agree with most things you have said in your original post, PhilipChandler. In particular with that 1st paragraph. However I disagree with this:
The "ending" was tacked on for the sake of US audiences, to salvage this brilliant little movie from box-office failure in that nation.

Probably when you were typing that message you still had not seen another film by Eytan Fox. Otherwise I don't understand your comment. Just take a look at 'Yossi & Jagger' or 'The Bubble' and you will realize that Eytan Fox couldn't care less on what homophobics and ultra-conservative nutjobs may think about him and his movies. Neither is he looking for a PG rating by the MPAA.

You are very wrong about that.

Finally I am agree with your comment on Pia, but that doesn't mean that Eyal should have a romantic/sexual relationship with Axel.
You are openly gay, but Eyal wasn't. Not even a closeted one. He was a misanthropic dude (kinda homophobic at the beginning) that learn to accept the others and to forgive himself.
Straight people may be very good friends with openly gay folks and still they never will feel sexually attracted to them. I know it because I am straight and despite having lots of friends who happens to be gay, I only feel attracted to women. Sorry, but true straight men are not a myth!

Watch "The Bubble". I am sure you will enjoy that movie A LOT.

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I've written before, but feel the need to repeat, that if Fox and Uchovsky were thinking of any market, it was that of the international festival circuit. Even IF they wanted to crack the American market, Israeli films usually get a US release on the wave of a festival success.

Whether you LIKE the ending or not (I'm in the minority in defending it) is another matter.

"Sometimes you have to take the bull by the tail, and face the truth" - G. Marx

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