MovieChat Forums > Capturing the Friedmans (2003) Discussion > A Couple of Disturbing Things

A Couple of Disturbing Things

posted 10 years ago by JoePesci88
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One of the kids who was molested and is interviewed comes off as really creepy the way he is sitting on the couch sprawled out with legs open , hes a grown man wearing jean shorts ,his shirt looks tugged at around the collar like how 5 year old pulls at their clothes and they are all over the place, he looks like an over sized child. Then he starts putting his hand all the way up the couches cushioning while hes talking about how he was raped, again fidgeting like a child and shoving his arm all the way up the couch head cushion, also he's drinking water slurping and changing his story left and right, first saying he was abused in the classroom then that the abuse took place in another room, I am in no way saying Arnold or Jesse Friedman are innocent and at least Arnold most likely did something inappropriate if he was so sexually aroused by children that he couldn't even sit near one during his sons lawyer visit. I am just saying this abuse victim seems so disturbing to me.

Also why was Uncle Howie not revealed to be gay until the very end. His facial expressions were very theatrical and bizarre but it was a close up until *zoom out* their his life partner and dachshund are right beside him the entire time. It is discussed that Arnold had sex with Howard and abused him and Howard says in his mind nothing was ever wrong and he never felt bad towards his brother, I know why, because he was gay and he enjoyed Arnold touching him, it felt good and was fun for him, Arnold might have turned Howard gay by making him enjoy sexual contact with another man. I find that the director shielded us from Howard being gay so we didn't draw that conclusion early on. That is why Howie never felt what Arnold did was wrong.

Also Arnold telling the lawyer he couldn't concentrate because the child bouncing on his dads lap was turning him on was something that I will never ever forget, that is so telling of a pedophile. These people can not be rehabilitated. children are there sexual preference and stimuli , they just can not be changed. it would be like trying to change a homosexual to be straight or stop liking the same sex, or get a straight man to stop liking the opposite sex. This is something that will never change in a person, for whatever reason , childhood experience , maybe he was born with it, a combo of both, but Arnold was sexually aroused by children , even his own as he told his doctor. You know you have a serious problem when you don't think you can stop yourself from having sex with your own children. That is how much he really got off on kids that his own were fair game. It must have been the only reason he married and had sex so he could have kids of his own to abuse and look at. Finally he didn't have to search for kids, he had them in his own home and no one would question him. They'd call him a great dad for being around his own children. What a nightmare.

I think the clown son is telling as-well, like John Wayne Gacy he was a clown to be next to children. Isn't it odd that with his family history and all that went on , his dream is to do tricks for children and be around little children all the time. He might not be a pedophile but I think he was abused and does'nt even remember it or has suppressed it and his desire to be in that kids world is a reflection of his dads actions and he now equates happiness making children laugh , as his dad equated happiness as abusing children under the guise of teaching them and making them feel comfortable.

I believe all the sons were abused , they have this feminine way about them that just screams victim. Also the mother. How could you have a husband that doesn't want to touch you sexually at all and stay with him. She allowed him to hide his pedophile ways because he seemed like a married guy to everyone. If she left him and he was the divorced wierdo computer teacher maybe people would have looked at him differently.

[–] NoirKatz 10 years ago

About the "victim" you speak of...I remember watching the film for the first time and wondering if the guys is mentally handicapped, emotionally disturbed, or just plain immature. What kind of grown man does an interview whilst sprawled out on a couch in jean shorts? But after watching the film a few more times, I was left wondering if this guy was instructed to behave in such a way, as if this guy was to represent all of the victims and, thus, discrediting their stories because of his bizarre and incredible manner. Do we know for sure that the guy was even one of the victims? He could have been hired for the role.

As for your statement about David's potential reason for becoming a clown, I absolutely agree. It makes total sense.

[–] Pixie_Cat 10 years ago

I stopped reading after your thoughts about Howard. It is totally irrelevant whether he's gay or not. Do you even understand how sexuality works? Arnold did not "turn" Howard gay. I'm straight but if I had an older Brother who inappropriately touched me when I was 8 I WOULD NOT have enjoyed it. You must be some sort if troll so please go back to where you came from

[–] JoePesci88 10 years ago

maybe you should have kept reading because i talk about how you cant change a gay person or a straight person there just made that way. you cant criticize something if you don't read the whole thing , you picked a slice of what I wrote then drew w conclusion that's now how critical thinking works. your ignorant. you basically judged a book by its cover, read the entire thing, then you can open your vile disgusting ugly mouth.

[–] rachel-filmer82 9 years ago

Honestly, I don't think you understand child abuse, or homosexuality.

The victim you mention, his behaviour could be down to the abuse he experienced - have you ever heard the term "arrested development"? When children experience trauma, it can affect their development. Maybe he does have other issues too, or maybe that's just how he is. Speaking about the sexual abuse you have experienced is extremely distressing, and you may have been seeing that distress in his physical behaviour.

You're way off the mark with your comments about Howard too. I am a victim of child abuse, my abuser was also a close family member. The way you interpret it is extremely complex, especially if you are that young when it occurs. It can feel like your fault, or it can feel like the abuser was trying to be loving, etc etc. Children don't "enjoy" abuse and abuse can't determine your sexuality - a child of eight already has a determined sexuality. You're making a lot of assumptions based on what you see on TV, it's not reality.

Also, men like Arnold are rare - most men who abuse children are not paedophiles in that sense. Most have good relationships with adults, they are not exclusively attracted to children, and that makes them even harder to spot. You'd never have believed that my abuser would do what he did. That's why they go undetected. Men like Arnold cannot ever be changed - fundamentally that is their sexuality which is extremely unfortunate, but they do have a choice whether to act on it or not. Many abusers, those who do abuse children but who also have relationships with adults, could stop abusing with effective treatment. Every case is different - the idea that everyone who abuses children is exclusively a paedophile with a stash of kiddie porn who is attracted to children every day is inaccurate.

[–] JoePesci88 9 years ago

I think if your sexual attraction is children so much so you act on it , then you can mask it with empty sexless relationships with women, and when he closes he eyes hes probubly thinking of boys. I believe those people cant change who they are attracted to, Just like you cant make a straight man gay, or a gay man straight, you like what you like, and for some reason or another these people are attracted to children, there's no changing them, you can curb their behavior but ultimately chemical castration or actual castration is the only way to stop them or take that urge away. You just can't make someone attracted to something different then what they like, pedophiles are unchangeable , I don't have the answers as to what to do with this type of person but I do know they have no place being around children in real life let alone unsupervised and being a teacher.

[–] SaliceMcD 8 years ago

I have to ask why you wrote, "Arnold might have turned Howard gay?" Given what you do go on to say, which contradicts this statement, was it just - I don't know - flippant, semi-joking?

[–] flinchn 9 years ago

I think you are spot on and I felt the same way about every point you make. And a great many folks who are sexually abused as a kid (including unhealthy exposure to it, like the father and uncle) end up deviating from consenting, adult heterosexuality to some degree.

This is true whether or not someone defensively replies immediately below that I am oppressing them somehow because of their sexuality, which is not my intention. I think the whole situation is horrific, and I can only hope these innocent victims can find a way to love and be loved.

[–] flinchn 9 years ago

Actually let me amend that slightly - the 'feminine' way the brothers act, as you put it, is merely (and completely innocently) an emotive mannerism characteristic that some Jewish men exhibit. It's not feminine at all, although it can be mistaken for it when you have never come across it before.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 9 years ago

@ JoePesci88

Very good post. I guessed Howard was gay quite early on and wonder about David too. It's a thorny subject to discuss homosexuality in the context of child sex abuse because of homophobia. What I will say is that whilst there was lots of talk of the hysteria amongst the boy victims, their families and the town, there was no question of the hysteria of David and Uncle Howard, as well as the wife, Elaine, at times. Arnold was the only person captured on film who was not hysterical.

Isn't it odd that with his family history and all that went on , his dream is to do tricks for children and be around little children all the time.

Yes

Also the mother.

Indeed. Child sex abuse, especially in families, needs a set of enablers and one is an absent and disinterested mother, who ignores signs. When she said she had no conception that such things existed in the world, in reference to the child pornography, I felt revulsed by her. I didn't believe her and the way she said it too. I really disliked David but I can understand why he was so angry with his mother.

In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer

[–] Garchomp 8 years ago

They were certainly a very, very weird family. Every single one of them was really creepy and odd.

I still feel kind of bad for them though. Their father basically ruined all their lives and was too cowardly to ever really admit it. He could have done a lot more than he did to help fix the situation but he chose to remain quiet. Even IF the Jessie kid was guilty, he was young and was heavily influenced by his father. He was at least partially a victim too.

I agree that the David guy being a children's party clown is extremely suspect. Not to mention that he was extremely defensive about everything his father did. He was totally in denial about his father's pedophilia.

It is one of the freakiest and most morbidly fascinating stories I have ever heard.