MovieChat Forums > Ritânâ (2002) Discussion > Plot Holes, Time Travel at its best

Plot Holes, Time Travel at its best

posted 21 years ago by phishstik
24 replies | jump to latest

Spoilers of course:

Lets see....

Assuming they fix the futre, the horrific "war future" should never happen, no real motivation for a time machine within 82 years to be made.... and definitly no reason if they did make one, to send that girl back and put armor in the lead characters coat....

anyways, she disappears, since her future was erased or born?, but... all the metallic items remain the "lighter" and probably more.

I'm sure theres lots of even better plot holes lets hear'm

and btw, why the #$%# didn't the aliens bring the pod back with them, they grab the alien, and leave.....and leave their high tech pod on the deck of an OIL RIG.

[–] vanlandw 21 years ago

yeah..any movie of this nature would have plot holes....matrix, terminator and the like...but yeah...some parts kinda make no sence :-P

http://vanlandw.no-ip.com/

[–] !!!deleted!!! (4524359) 19 years ago

"yeah..any movie of this nature would have plot holes....matrix, terminator and the like...but yeah...some parts kinda make no sence :-P "

There is one possible way to look at a timetravel scenario which would not create paradoxes that is one fixed timeline. But if that's the case nothing can be changed because everyone just do as they are supposed to in a already set timeline.

"Civilization is a *beep* failure" - Serj Tankian, System of a down

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] marevan 21 years ago

"and btw, why the #$%# didn't the aliens bring the pod back with them, they grab the alien, and leave.....and leave their high tech pod on the deck of an OIL RIG."

Hey, you have to leave something for the possible sequel :P

[–] GigaBites 21 years ago

they probably didn't care.

It's like leaving a fully functioning car in a place with chimps.

why do they need to take the pod anyway?

[–] prettygolucky 21 years ago

Yeah, it definitely had a few plot holes.

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Their innocence tastes like candy.

[–] TheStantz 21 years ago

You sure the time machine was developed for that sole reason?
And maybe after she got back they realised how much good they could do.

Like helping Miyamoto out. For cripes sake, he helped save the world! It was the least they could do. And anyway, it seemed like a pretty straightforward thing to do, nothing they'd have to bend over backwards for.

[–] TooNice 21 years ago

Biggest plot hole:

The war started because of Mizoguchi right? (His lust of power caused him to kill the alien while trying to extract information out of the alien).

Now had Milly not been sent to in time, Miyamoto would not have been interupted at the beginning.
And from the looks of it, he had the upper hand, and was about to kill Mizoguchi.
So on that basis, the war wouldn't have happened had she not interrupted. Yet.. It did happen.

The only counter I can think of is that had Mizoguchi been killed on that night, one of the other bad guys (ie the one Mizoguchi killed) might've acted instead.

But judging from the ending (when the ETs made their appearances), we see that they are not completely mindless. So would they really have gone for a war just because -one- of them got killed?
In fact, since they were there on that day, why didn't they just act on it themselves. Witht their shielding, its not like the bad guys had any chances.

And there are other plot holes associated with time traveling (very hard to do well).

[–] petekrug17 18 years ago

Here's what I think regarding the points you brought up:

In the original timeline without the interference of timetravel Miyamoto did indeed kill Mizoguchi, but one of Mizoguchi's underlings carried out the actions of kidnapping the alien. (Remember that that old Chinese mob boss who Mizoguchi worked for would still be alive and was the one who carried out the order.)

As for why the aliens didn't arrive right away to save the stranded pilot, you might remember the scene twords the end of the film when Miyamoto has used Millie's time watch that slows down time for the last time and the two of them with the alien end up in the downed alien fighter and the alien sends another signal to the mother ship. It could be the other aliens simply didn't know the exact location of their commrad until then. (The first time the stranded alien signals them and they come to earth they think he/it will still be at the science building where he was being held. When they find he isn't there, they have no idea where to look, as we see when we see the airplane that later turns out to be an alien ship in disguise flying over the science building.)

As for why the Dagra launch an all-out war to destroy humanity because one of their own was killed, it can be summed up like this: cultural differences. The Dagra apparently live in a culture where if one of your own is kidnapped and killed by another group of beings, the entire race of other beings must pay. We'd call it immoral, but apparently that's how they operate. Anyway, there've been other films where aliens attack earth with the intent to wipe us out for less than that.

[–] badrhetoric 21 years ago

The latest theories on time travel suggest that time travel would simply connect a single world line "head to tail", not "cut and paste" style as most people seem to think. If that's true then a sequence of events would still happen in "order" despite any kind of time travel intervention, so the events in "Returner" are still 'accurate'.

[–] Jander_Sunstar 21 years ago

badrhetoric is right. You other mindless sheep must simply not have the compactly to understand the scope of all the events that happened with in this movie. Therefore you should keep your opinions to yourselves until you are able to have the patients to grasp what might really be happening in a film and not just watch one for the action. I thought this was an excellent film and will recommend it to others.

[–] axhi 21 years ago

Therefore you should keep your opinions to yourselves until you are able to have the patients to grasp what might really be happening in a film

Can I have some of your patients?

I might suggest keeping your opinions to yourself until you have a basic grasp of the English language - but that would be rude and arrogant, wouldn't it?

All the best,
axih

[–] Bob_Brooker 19 years ago

Now had Milly not been sent to in time, Miyamoto would not have been interupted at the beginning.
And from the looks of it, he had the upper hand, and was about to kill Mizoguchi.
So on that basis, the war wouldn't have happened had she not interrupted. Yet.. It did happen.

this is not a plot hole per se but an often used convention in science fiction called predestination paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox).

without it there wouldn't be film classics like Twelve Monkeys or Back To The Future. it always the same scheme: the person travels back in time and ends up causing the effect that would inspire him or her, years later, to travel back in time. this paradox is inevitably linked to the idea of time travelling and not a flaw in this film.

Life is pain! Anyone who says different is trying to sell you something.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] rana_eressea 19 years ago

Actually, there is no proof for time travel and how it works whatsoever should it even exist . . . so you can't say "this isn't possible because time travel wouldn't allow it."

You don't know what time travel would allow.

If time is linear, then she should not be able to change the past no matter what. However, if time is not linear, then the possibilities are endless. Either way, nothing can be proved. It's all untested theory.

******
I asked for freedom; they could offer me nothing above death.

[–] rius 19 years ago

well time travel is not that impossible. the faster you move the more you move in time. Its Einstein's theory. The extrme is that if you travel around the earth at the speed of light and your twin styas on earth, if you land after (what you think are) 10 years, then far longer has apssed on earth
in effect your traveled in time. of course going backwards might be impossible.

[–] rohonnag 19 years ago

u r over simplyfying it! (pardon the spelling)

einstiens theory states that time passes slower (or was it faster?) once out of our gravity field, hence a clock outside the earth will time faster ! get it?

also speed affects it due to the theory of relativity

[–] FX2003 19 years ago

As far as I know he's right, the faster you go the slower time passes, if you traveled near the speed of light for a few years you were able to see distant future on earth, you could not go back however, unless you find a way to go faster than light.

Basic reading ability is required to fully enjoy this post.

[–] tripfontaine-2 19 years ago

Well, here are my two cents on the whole time travel plot...

Could it be possible that instead of only one time line existing( like so many of you are bent on believing), there are an infinite ammoount of alternate universes where each choice made by the characters creates a universe where the sequence of events ends with a completely(or slightly different) outcome.

I think that when Milly goes back in time and alters the time line, she really doesn't stay in the same universe. Instead, she is pretty much bumped into a parallel, and alternate universe where her actions create different results...

Then again, what do I know about time travel and it's inner workings.

[–] rohonnag 19 years ago

you are right, infact what you say is supported by string theory, (dont ask me how though)

there is proof of a multiverse, different universes with different timelines, and they form and destroy all the time.

think of this, each time you think of doing something, like smacking the bully infront of you, a alternate universe, you actually do that, it might result to your death, but you dont know that, coz you never did it.!

[–] franks-10 19 years ago

Sounds like someone who read his Titor ;)

Anyways.. I'd like to add my thoughts on the matter of plot holes and timetravel.

For those who thinks she's going BACK TO HER FUTURE timeline: I've got news for you. She would be dead because the bunker were being utterly camped by the aliens. You saw the cities, totally wasted.. The time machine exploded too..

Anyways, a much better explanation for her disappearance is that she's changed the future so much, her basis for existence has expired. She will just cease to exist, in that timeline that is. Like the war and its effects, she is also gone (she's a product of the war).

Of course, this was added for sentimental reasons to the film. I actually found it quite cheesy. Nice effect, but too predictable and not necessary.

It is even a bit paradoxial, because she's disappearing, but not her items, her effects upon the world, etc. It doesn't make much sense really. Energy don't just _disappear_ like that, just to provoke some tears and emotions ;)

She (her soul) CAN'T go back to the new future, since her whole childhood and all memories would be rebuilt without the war, and without the time travel. Maybe she would not be born in the new future at all even. Without the war, much will be different. She'd probably not be a warrior.

There IS a possible explanantion though, that she's coming back for him. The aliens in the future is cooperating with the humans, and ensuring to save this "hero". However, pretty unlikely at best. And why HER? She would not even know him in the new future.. The aliens must have tipped someone off, of her too, and made them send HER. But why? The people / aliens didn't seem to care for lives too much..

It's a gaping hole, no matter how you twist and turn on it. Timetravel can really constrain a movie, and it is obvious they broke the script to produce some extra plot effects.

Anyways, this was a very nice movie overall.

But what's up with all the smoking? Was this film sponsored by some smoking companies or what?

[–] special_agentg 19 years ago

Haven't seen this in a while but I loved it. Hmm, time travel theory and plot holes pretty much go hand in hand - at least the movie was good enough to make up for it.

But I like that idea that she just ceases to exist as that very person when they;ve made those changes. Maybe it's to keep the movie open for a sequel. Maybe something goes awry and the future is just as f'ed up? Ah, I don't know. I need to read up more about Time Travel and alternate universes (an idea that blows my mind; to think about how many other worlds out there in existense).

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] cool_splash1 18 years ago

I'm glad they didn't get into all that crap. It would take away from the story. I like my time travel stories that are both tech and action etc. but somtimes you just want to see a story where everyone isn't hung up on the tech side.