Anti-Liberal Propaganda?


Now first up, let me say I don't actually believe the things I'm saying here. I tend to think a movie is usually just a movie and any paranoid theories about ulterior motives is just in the head of the individual viewer. But there's something I noticed about the movie Ladykillers that's interesting. You could possibly make the argument that this movie has an anti-liberal, pro-conservative Christian values message. Think about it. The main group of unscrupulous villains consists of a college professor (usually considered politically liberal), a known Communist, a man who admits to actively participating in Civil Rights rallies and a young urban black male (usually known to vote democrat). All of them are portrayed as being sneaky, two-faced and underhanded. The only exception being the young college football player, who has a change of heart at the end (plus, people in the more conservative parts of the country love their college football).

The movie's champion is a little old lady who goes to church and gives to the ultraconservative bible college Bob Jones University. She is constantly trying to tell people of impending danger, only to have everyone roll their eyes in disbelief (what many religious people claim non-religious folk do to them). In the end the villains are punished and taken off to Garbage Island (which I guess represents the afterlife) and the money goes to Bob Jones University.

Again, I don't believe this is the Coen Brother's intent in making this movie, but it is just something I noticed and am surprised no one else has made a similar claim thus far.

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The Asian wasn't liberal. There's no way in hell a liberal would defend the donut shop the way he did, with such force and efficiency. And the way he ran after Pickles to retrieve's Garth's finger... liberals can't even go that fast. They'd get tripped up in their Birkenstalks and be all "Hey man, take it easy, Pickles'll come back soon; here, take a puff of this, and let's stop arguing about Mountain Girl."

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Now first up, let me say I don't actually believe the things I'm saying here. I tend to think a movie is usually just a movie and any paranoid theories about ulterior motives is just in the head of the individual viewer. But there's something I noticed about the movie Ladykillers that's interesting. You could possibly make the argument that this movie has an anti-liberal, pro-conservative Christian values message. Think about it. The main group of unscrupulous villains consists of a college professor (usually considered politically liberal), a known Communist, a man who admits to actively participating in Civil Rights rallies and a young urban black male (usually known to vote democrat). All of them are portrayed as being sneaky, two-faced and underhanded. The only exception being the young college football player, who has a change of heart at the end (plus, people in the more conservative parts of the country love their college football).

The movie's champion is a little old lady who goes to church and gives to the ultraconservative bible college Bob Jones University. She is constantly trying to tell people of impending danger, only to have everyone roll their eyes in disbelief (what many religious people claim non-religious folk do to them). In the end the villains are punished and taken off to Garbage Island (which I guess represents the afterlife) and the money goes to Bob Jones University.

Again, I don't believe this is the Coen Brother's intent in making this movie, but it is just something I noticed and am surprised no one else has made a similar claim thus far.


I don't think it is. I'm further to the left on the political spectrum than most liberals, but I don't find any offense to this movie. The political stuff in it really cracks me up: "Do you know who the Freedom Riders were, MacSam?"

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There's actually a similar theory concerning the movie Forrest Gump (also starring Hanks) that says because Forrest does what he's told and follows a more traditional "American values" path (plays college football, goes to church, joins the Army) he winds up wealthy and living a fruitful life. Whereas Jenny is more rebellious and does things like experiments with sex and drugs and becomes a political protester she is miserable and winds up dying from AIDS. Again, I'm a left-leaning moderate so I don't really feel this way about either of these movies, but I'm surprised no one else has brought it up.

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There's actually a similar theory concerning the movie Forrest Gump (also starring Hanks) that says because Forrest does what he's told and follows a more traditional "American values" path (plays college football, goes to church, joins the Army) he winds up wealthy and living a fruitful life. Whereas Jenny is more rebellious and does things like experiments with sex and drugs and becomes a political protester she is miserable and winds up dying from AIDS. Again, I'm a left-leaning moderate so I don't really feel this way about either of these movies, but I'm surprised no one else has brought it up.


I can definitely see where you're coming from. I am a socialist, and I have already thought about the stuff you mentioned, but this movie is just too damned funny. I couldn't stop laughing when Pancake replaced all the money with a bunch of Mother Jones magazines. Here's a link to the Mother Jones website: http://www.motherjones.com/

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This is a remake of a British film and the studio who made it at the time had a rputation for being a little bit anti establishment!

Its that man again!!

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Go with your instincts!
Remember, movies are made for audiences, often very particular audiences. Movies and films emerge from the existing zeitgeist and so anti-liberal themes are pretty common in mainstream movies and are not done on accident.

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Go with your instincts!
Remember, movies are made for audiences, often very particular audiences. Movies and films emerge from the existing zeitgeist and so anti-liberal themes are pretty common in mainstream movies and are not done on accident.


I am more of a leftist than most so-called "liberals" in this country, and I don't detect any "anti-liberal" themes.

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There's a well-known interpretation of the original Ladykillers as political metaphor for post-war England: the new Labour government lodging itself in the house of good old England (like the gang in Mrs Wilberforce's house) and redistributing the wealth by social reforms. Due to post-war austerity Labour was voted out of office and the ensuing conservative government benefited from the reforms introduced by Labour (like Mrs. Wilberforce got to the lolly).
While Mrs Wilberforce stands for the old conservative (Victorian period) England, the gang consists of conservatives' enemy stereotypes: the intellectual "Professor" Marcus, the middle-class renegade Major Courtney (by the way, bearing quite some outward resemblance to Prime Minister Clement Attlee), working-class member One-Round, Harry as member of the youth (observed suspiciously by conservatives), Louis as the real-deal criminal.
Surely, being big fans of the original, the Coens must have been aware of this interpretation and it wouldn't be surprising if they had in some way incorporated something similar into the remake, carried over to contemporary American society. Though I don't think everything transfers one-to-one, the goverment in question could be the Clinton administration, since the film takes place in the 90s. A gang member jeopardizing the enterprise by a sexual escapade might ring a bell. Also Bill kind of "brought his bitch to the Waffle Hut", with Hillary regularly taking part in cabinet meetings.
While in the original Major Courtney is a conservative character that, so to say, went astray, Garth Pancake is a (former) member of the Civil Rights Movement who basically gives up his liberal ideals and Martin Luther King's dream (MLK being explicitly mentioned by Mrs Munson in the beginning) for a reduced version of the American Dream, i.e. getting rich, symbolically in the act of leaving the Mother Jones magazines behind in place of the money.
A noteworthy difference to the original is that in the remake the gang robs a casino. One thing that makes the American Dream still so attractive is the promise that everybody has the chance to make it by hard work. Think of the program Gawain's mother watches in his flashback: "The Jeffersons", a sitcom about a nouveau riche Afro-American family. But it's rather like a lottery: everybody can win, but few do, and (matching the casino's name "Bandit Queen") the lottery is rigged:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfgSEwjAeno
The casino could also be interpreted as a metaphor for financial capitalism and free market unbound by Reagan in the 80s, which has been continued by subsequent administrations, by the Clinton administration e.g. by NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.
In this context the gang would consist of a mixture of conservatives' enemy stereotypes (the "liberal" college professor, Civil Rights Movement member Garth, the General as former Vietcong hence communist) and losers of "the lottery" (Gawain as member of the black lower-class, Lump probably at least on the brink of lower-class).
But the Professor's statement concluding his speech "we merry band unbound by the constraints of society and the prejudices of the common ruck" doesn't sound very liberal, more like the attitude with which the economic elite rigs "the lottery" in its favor and splits society, though his speech started out with a quite liberal touch: "we who have shared each other's company, each other's cares, each other's joys, and who shall now reap the fruits of our communal efforts, shoulder to shoulder, from each according to his abilities, so forth and whatnot". *)
Also Garth requesting compensation for "blowing his own goddamn finger off", reminds a bit of banks having lost money in risky speculations and asking for governmental bail-out.
Now "you have wrested the information from me! Now it is all on the table. Now you have it, the whole story, the awful truth." ;)
Well, if one takes that interpretation at face value I wouldn't consider the film necessarily to be anti-liberal (pro-conservative) propaganda. One might rather see in it a dig at Democrats using liberal rhetoric to sell anti-liberal policies ("double talk" as Mrs Munson repeatedly remarks with respect to Professor Dorr). And you could see it as a cautionary tale. If one doesn't find feasible alternatives to "the rigged lottery", society as a whole might end up like the gang.

In the end the villains are punished and taken off to Garbage Island (which I guess represents the afterlife) and the money goes to Bob Jones University.

The priest uses it in his sermon as a graphic depiction of hell: "That garbage island in the shadowland where scavenger birds feast on the bones of the backsliding damned." So society as a whole might end up in some sort of "hell" which resembles the notion of "the dismal tide" mentioned in "No Country for Old Men" where, by the way, at a certain point also "the scavenger bird", the raven reappears.
One can be pretty sure that throwing all the money at Bob Jones University (maybe to find a Creationism based solution to the problem?) wouldn't be the Coens' very own secret desire. ;) You might see in it a warning that liberal "double talk" may play into the hands of the religious right. I think, it's also a satirical take on the fact that sometimes people (like, in this case, Mrs Munson) just don't know what the heck they are doing, even making decisions contrary to their own interests.

*)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need

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You could possibly make the argument that this movie has an anti-liberal, pro-conservative Christian values message.


Well, except for the part where they planned and/or did murder one another.

But even so, I wouldn't say that this is anti-liberal. But if it were, it would be anti-liberal and anti-conservative. This movie was set in the 90s. This was at a time when the Bob Jones University (still think it's funny the initials are the BJ University) was still practicing the prohibition of interracial dating. Heck, the only one who won was the cat.

The original The Ladykillers was a sort of joke about the post-war England - for a quick read, take a look here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/8862110/The-Ladykillers-was-a-cartoon-of-Britains-corruption.html

I suspect that this movie is intended to be something similar, but an ironic joke, particularly but not in all events, of the south. The college student is an idiot, but he's good at football, so who cares? The black guy works at a janitor with all other black guys, and when he gets fired, he blames it on racism. A demolitions expert blows his thumb off giving a safety demonstration (and later almost blows himself up again because of his faulty device). A Vietnamese General (who's implied to be a Vietnamese tunnel rat) is digging a tunnel to steal money; later he goes to kill the woman with a gun i nthe dark and can't do it, presumably because of his PTSD. The police live up to the lazy stereotype when instead of investigating the woman's claim about the money, they just tell her to keep it thinking she's just being silly. The group plans to steal money and leave without a trace, and they do exactly that but don't end up with the money.

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Well, except for the part where they planned and/or did murder one another.


Umm, yeah. That was explicitly portrayed as unChristian behavior. Remember when Hanks tries to ask the General if there is a middle ground between attending church and murdering old ladies? Remember the General's hilarious answer? And the garbage island where they all end up at the end is explicitly made a symbol of eternal damnation.


But even so, I wouldn't say that this is anti-liberal. But if it were, it would be anti-liberal and anti-conservative. This movie was set in the 90s. This was at a time when the Bob Jones University (still think it's funny the initials are the BJ University) was still practicing the prohibition of interracial dating. Heck, the only one who won was the cat.


Bob Jones U had already officially ended the practice in 2000 when this film was made (and had long since stopped enforcing it). I don't know why you would conclude it was set in the 90s, rather than in 2004 when the film was released. Because Munson remembers the 60s? No problem. Irma Hall was born in 1935, and her character could easily be the same age or older. Because it's the "Age of Montel"? No problem; the show ran until 2008.

I don't see any horrible tragedy in Bob Jones U getting the money. But maybe I don't hate those folks as much as you do. Maybe the Coen brothers don't hate them either. Why would they?

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Umm, yeah. That was explicitly portrayed as unChristian behavior. Remember when Hanks tries to ask the General if there is a middle ground between attending church and murdering old ladies? Remember the General's hilarious answer? And the garbage island where they all end up at the end is explicitly made a symbol of eternal damnation.


Joke, dude. Get a grip.

I don't see any horrible tragedy in Bob Jones U getting the money. But maybe I don't hate those folks as much as you do. Maybe the Coen brothers don't hate them either. Why would they?


You're taking this far more serious than anyone else here. I didn't actually say I hate Bob Jones, but it's clear you've got a problem with me. And I don't care about what your problems are. I was indulging someone on a topic they brought up. You're free to disagree with it. I think you're wrong, but whatever. But since you're being a jackwagon about it, I don't care to discuss it with you.

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Again, I don't believe this is the Coen Brother's intent in making this movie, but it is just something I noticed and am surprised no one else has made a similar claim thus far.


Whatever their intent, the film definitely seems, on the surface, to portray Christianity in a favorable light. Nor is it the only Coen Bros movie to do so. See also: O Brother Where Art Thou; True Grit.

Unlike you, however, I see nothing anti-liberal about the movie. Of course, some identify "liberal" with "progressive" and identify "progressive" with their own particular ideas of progress which include the dismantling of Christianity.

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Yawn

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Many Christians are progressive, some are even liberal. Shocking as that might be to you.

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