MovieChat Forums > Coraline (2009) Discussion > Just had to make the boy the hero

Just had to make the boy the hero


They completely ruined this movie for me by inserting a boy into the story so it could be the boy who was the hero and not the girl. Seriously! There are so few books out there with the female hero and they could not even leave this one alone.

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[deleted]

Wybie didn't go to the Other World.

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In addition, they felt it would be better if she didn't go wandering around talking to herself-so they invented Wybie.

NM

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Disisd, do you complain whenever you see a commercial where the man is made to look like a helpless idiot, and the woman is like some kind of genius who can do All Good Things? (in other words, every commercial that has a man and a woman in it)

No. Of course you don't.

You absorb the messages and believe that it really is like that. And then when you see proof that men are not helpless and stupid, you get upset. Your fragile female ego can't handle the truth.

Try watching less TV, okay?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Make me a sandwich... I'm hungry...

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That's the most original joke I've ever heard. It will never not be funny.

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LOL... nice one... im hungry too.. :P

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I guess it should be a foot long sub then. I'll split it... cut down on costs... you know, because of the economy and all.

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You’re pathetic.

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I totally agree. Recently men are made out to be totally stupid and incapable of living without some sort of women, not only in commercials but in a lot of kid shows, sitcoms, and movies.

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[deleted]

The movie was good but I do agree with you. Can't have girls thinking they can't live without a guy. We need protection after all.

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[deleted]

Um, the part where he comes to Coraline's rescue and saves the day? The film wouldn't have had the happy ending it did without him.

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[deleted]

He swooped in and saved her. The outcome depended on him. Basically, she did all the leg work but he still saved the day. A female protagonist couldn't be displayed as being strong enough to save the day on her own. Like I said, we need to depend on men to save because women aren't capable of saving themselves.

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[deleted]

Yes, the hand that was dragging her back to the door and choking her simultaneously. He made the difference in the movie. Why couldn't she just smash the hand herself? Like you put it, it was just a bunch of needles. Why did she need a saviour?

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[deleted]

Thanks for that enlightening explanation as to why choking can be fatal (which pretty much everyone knows) and that disturbing insight to your personal life although you might want to consider that the person you're talking to has faced similar, if not worse, situations.

Anyways, you were the one who said that breaking the hand was oh so simple. And she was being choked by the string attached to the key that the hand was dragging. But that is all really irrelevant to the point here. The matter is that a male saved yet another female in a big-budget hollywood film. It doesn't send the right message and has always been a staple of films made in a patriarchal society. Is it too much to ask that a women not need saving by a man? It isn't about how much work or fighting she did. It's that the final outcome of the film was determined by the male figure saving the female.

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Really? Lemmie see, Coraline squashed the hand with a rock AND dragged Wybie out of the well before he fell....sounds 'rather like' yet another sin by a sexist patriarchal society...kind of like 'Aliens'...seems to me you're a troll...goodbye to you;

NM

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Ok bye! You seem to have the characters completely mixed up so it wasn't like you making a point anyways. Wybie saves Coraline, pulls himself out of the well, and smashes the hand. Don't worry. Maybe you just saw a completely different version of the movie than me?

Huh, I didn't know that the sign of a troll was someone talking about gender rolls in film. I usually find that the mark of the troll is the poster who uses quite a lot of ellipses. Which...is...also...just....plain annoying.

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[deleted]

Ok listen. I see what you're trying to say and how you are defending the movie but you are obviously looking at it much differently then me. As this is a fictional animated film, I am not arguing about what would have happened in reality. Granted, I did say that I believed that in a situation where she had just emerged from another universe successfully saving her parents after a number of different dangerous tasks, you'd think she could have been able to finish the deed herself. Anyways, I'm trying to speak purely cinematically. It has nothing to do with Coraline being exhausted or - you think you would have mentioned this - most likely suffering a concussion after her fall or how about some kind of shock or emotional scarring from her ordeal? Nor does it have to do with your mother or Hitler? I don't even know how or why you tied that in. I see what you're trying to say but I have to come to the conclusion that your are massively overestimating the significance of Coraline as a film or you just chose a very irrelevant explanation. It's just about as irrelevant as your insistence that Coraline rescuing her dad is a flaw in my argument. I know he was rescued and he was a male but it isn't about that. Not every person is given equal importance or strength of character in a film. He played his part which was to be a caring but neglectful parent. Then there is Wybie who is the underestimated but surprise hero who swoops in and saves the day.

First, I'd like to mention that in the books, there is no Wybie and Coraline is able to save herself. So why is it necessary in the film? Well, the most apparent reason is because it works to build dramatic suspense and tension. Coraline is being dragged by the hand back to the door, the Other Mother is slamming on the door, trying to break free, and there seems like there is no hope for our protagonist. What will she do? The members of the audience hold their breath but have no fear! Her knight in shining armour comes to save her. By the way, that was an obvious play on the knight in shining armour cliche. He rides in on the bike (his horse) and his odd face mask (armour) and saves the girl in distress.

That scene is really all about setting up an 'intense' climax for the film. In the book, where Coraline tricked the hand into falling into a well, probably just didn't satisfy the need for a theatrical climax. It has nothing to do with reality; it's all about theatrical choices. It still could have been done with just her but audiences enjoy seeing the knight save the damsel. They also eat up the romance sparking between the two. It's not a good story if love isn't involved.

That, finally, brings us to the matter at hand which is Wybie saving Coraline. Honestly, I have no time to get into the feminist film criticism that I could because there is simply too much to say. Coraline actually had both a female protagonist and antagonist which was great and, although I'm not asking for a flawless main character, it would have been great if Coraline could have saved herself. In the end, no matter what people who say 'it's just a film' want to think, these types of actions in films do have real life implications. While you say that Wybie saving Coraline does not undermine all of her work to save her parents, which I agree with you, I still believe that it implies that she could not have done it without him which is very crucial. Don't think of it in the context of the film but on a larger scale. Yet again, the female needed the male to appear at the end and save her.


P.S. Sorry about the quality of this post. My original post never made it through as my internet decided to conveniently freeze when I pressed post... I didn't have the time or effort to re write it properly which is why I didn't go into detail with what should have been the most important part of my argument.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Why did she need a saviour?
To give loopy feminists* something to see that wasn't actually there so that they could have a bloody good whinge about it.

*Note, I don't believe all feminists are loopy. Just ones who read daft bollocks like this into things.

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I didn't think it like this at all. Are you wearing your glasses by any chance?

I'm better than you.

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[deleted]

By that definition, the cat is the hero. The Wybie incident would have been a moot point had the cat not caught the mouse when all was lost. So, no, Wybie is not the hero, the cat is! No, Coraline is the hero because she skillfully defeated the beldam and had friends willing to help.

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@ machtyn: Agreed! That's how I felt also. Coraline was the hero, the whole movie was her basically saving everyone.

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...don't you have a wymen's studies class to get to? You have to take a chill pill, bro.

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I agree. he was not in the book

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[deleted]

Anyone who finds this sexist is utterly paranoid, and completely missed the point of the scene.

_____________________________
"If you don't think, then you shouldn't talk."
-Lewis Carroll

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No kidding Hatter! It's probably somebody who's taken one too many useless sociology classes in College & had their head filled with hooey.

NM

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[deleted]

[deleted]


Exactly! Thank you!

At any rate, even Neil Gaiman approves of Wybie.
_____________________________
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www.TheJokerBlogs.com

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Even though he's not in the book, Wybie's appearance makes a lot of sense contributing to the "thematic elements" of his Grandma having the doll.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I've read the book, and Henry Selick is right, if he would have filmed the book faithfully (word for word) the movie would have lasted about 45 minutes. Also, Coraline would have been talking to herself constantly. Having Wybie gave Coraline something to act off of in those scenes where she might otherwise have been talking to herself. The Wybie character was wonderful in the movie, and had you watched the extras of the DVD you would have seen that Gaiman thought the addition of Wybie was wonderful and had *absolutely* no objections.

Coraline is most definitely the hero of the film, any five-year-old can see that. The book is wonderful, but the film is pure, glorious magic. Anyone that is complaining about any aspect of the movie is just a grumpy whiner and seriously needs to get a life.


"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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In the director's commentary, Selick commented that he wanted Wybie to try to save Coraline but ultimately fail. I may be remembering it wrong but I recalled him trying to get rid of the hand, but nearly falling down the well and only escaping with her help.
I can see the idea behind this, though. At the beginning of the film Coraline shunned Wybie despite his attempts to be friendly; if she learned to cooperate with him in dispensing of a problem, it would certainly evidence character growth on her part.

However, I do like strong female leads, and I have to say I was disappointed in the amount of risk she was put in. Coraline wasn't heroic enough for me, I guess. I don't need her to be a "fearless warrior" (as Selick put it) but the way I'm understanding the film, she really didn't have a choice. She wouldn't have been able to live without her parents.
They did make an attempt to offer something above and beyond the call of duty for her - the Ghost Children - but the sequential placement and of it made it feel more like a perfunctory video game level - one more step in saving herself - than a risk she could forget about but instead chose to endure.

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OH heaven forbid that a preteen girl need help from at least one other CHILD to finish the deed of defeating an evil spider witch thing from another dimension that traps little kid's souls!

I'm really sick of people crying "SEXIST!" in films. This case is particularly obnoxious considering that Coraline was the main character and without her... They would not have even gotten to the point at the well... Without her, the key would still be out there (in that film world) and other children would be at risk of being effectively killed by the other mother. Nothing in this film was underminded by Wybie helping her out at the end and it was NOT crucial for her to do it completely by herself in that scene. The cat tried to warn her about something and he just kicked it out the way... For those of you that are completely oblivious to how the hero formula works... THIS SCENE WAS VITAL.

Not to mention Coraline is the one that tells Wybie's grandmother about everything because he's scared to do it himself. If I had the authority to do so I would apologize on behalf of the filmmaker... Next time they make a movie with a heroine I'm sure they'll make sure that she smashes the antagonist with no trouble and drags all of the helpless victims out of the flames of death in a timely manner as to not undermine her status as a heroic entity. THAT WOULD BE SO MUCH FUN TO WATCH.

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Why is the original poster being attacked? S/he makes an interesting point that Coraline cannot save herself alone. I don’t necessarily agree that it is sexist that Wybie helped her, but I can’t easily disagree, considering the OP’s arguments, and the other sexist elements of the film (though they are much smaller in number compared to many other films). OP is NOT just being paranoid and overly sensitive; sexism is so pervasive in movies that people learn to overlook it as the norm. When I watched the scene it didn’t even occur to me that Wybie saving her would somehow indicate any incompetence, and I still do like how it showed some teamwork, and seemed to indicate to Coraline that she should treat Wybie a little better, but then again, it would have been a very different scene if Coraline had been the one to magically show up and save the day, haul herself out of the well and drop the rock on the spindly hand, saving the boy.

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"S/he makes an interesting point that Coraline cannot save herself alone."
WRONG. You can leave now.








Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

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Care to share why it is wrong? The OP IS bringing up an interesting point that I never would have thought about before.

An opinion cannot be right or wrong, you can only choose to agree or disagree.

Like a boss
http://3beautifulbamfs.wordpress.com/

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Coraline definately was the heroine and Whyborn a good friend she could rely on in the end. Thinking that she must do everything on her own is ridiculous since she is still a child and everyone needs a good friend otherwise she would be a lonely and pretty sad little heroine that's why I appreciated the last scene in the garden where they all came together to have a party.

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Well, to be fair, Coraline had already proved she was more than capable of handling herself.

If you want to say "Wybie was the hero" then aren't you forgetting the cat, the mice (although I couldn't figure out if the mice were actually good or bad as they warned Caroline through Mr B but turned out to be disgusting rats "sounding an alarm" for the Other Mother?), Other Dad and the dead children? They all helped Coraline too and she couldn't have done it without them.

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