MovieChat Forums > The Last Samurai (2003) Discussion > Another "white savior" film.

Another "white savior" film.


What is it with Hollywood thinking that in so many films, when the central story involves any group of people that aren't white and there is some type of serious event, they need a white savior? Or, not necessarily a savior, but a huge part of what's going on. It's ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, as I did like the film, but this happens so often.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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While I see your point, this film is adapted from the life of a French white guy named Jules Brunet. I'm not sure that Samurai (or Shogun in the real-life story) necessarily needed a "white savior" against Meiji, but rather that he chose to stay because he was enamored by the culture (even after the French forces had pulled out of Japan).

In reality, this movie is more about romanticism/nostalgia vs. modernization. I think people would enjoy it more if they focused on that.

...For your health.

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Completely agree. The film tries to posit that the Algren character was the one that made them do so well, with his strategies and such, and that they wouldn't have come nearly as far, in the film, as they did, without him.

Again, this happens so often. And of course, it's fiction, or in many cases, a heavily fictionalized account of reality, like this.




The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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Well, Hollywood is American and most American's are (for the time being) white. Therefore most protagonists will be white (for now).

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That's very true, and that's also the problem. It's as if they are saying that because the majority of the country is white, it would be unheard of for someone who isn't white to save the day. Even in countries that aren't predominantly white European. Imagine a Japanese person saving the day in a film that takes place in Japan and is about Japanese people.

And, like I said above, even in films that are based on true stories, it happens as well. Next, we will be seeing a film about Dr. Martin Luther King helping a community to overcome oppression, and in a pivotal scene, we will see that it was a white person, secretly behind the scenes, that enabled this to happen.

Now I know that's a ridiculous example, but it almost seems like that's what happens in many of these films.

I am glad, though, that the old school Hollywood people are nearly gone, as it can give way for less bigoted and more realistic films. Not outright, but when reading between the lines, like the film that started this discussion.

Another great example...the film '47 Ronin'. I realize it is a HEAVILY fictionalized account of what really happened, and in all seriousness, a terrible film, but again, here comes the white savior.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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[deleted]

How about a Japanese male. What a novel idea.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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[deleted]

Exactly. Hence, the white savior. But what does that say about us, meaning the USA, as a society?


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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But what does that say about us, meaning the USA, as a society?


-That we understand how culture clash movies should work. Honestly if it was a Latino man or something in the lead someone else would just be complaining 'why did they change it from a White person?' Can't please everybody, gotta take the film for what it is. It was well written, acted, paced, shot, directed, choreographed, etc. Way more positives than negatives from a film making perspective. The message may have been muddled (since we obviously see it differently) but the actual technical stuff was well done enough to overlook that.

To me it seemed to glorify the Eastern style of life more than anything, so I think your premise is false from the start anyway...


'Get yourself a real dog. Any dog under 50 lbs is a cat and cats are pointless' - Ron Swanson

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Well, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Also, I never said I didn't like the film. It was very well made and enjoyable. It just has an aspect that I feel is ridiculous.


"Welcome to Costco. I love you."

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The intended audience for this film is white americans, and they will connect better with a white american lead. Financially this decision probably makes sense, but I agree that artistically it comes off pretty cheesy and arrogant to keep casting white males in these leads. I dont think the director was trying to push a white power agenda. I think they were just trying to give this film a good shot in the box office.

I do think you get to see a lot more of the culture of the Japanese with Cruise as the lead. It makes it very easy to show the differences in culture and it makes it very realistic for him to actively question everything around him.

Avatar also has a white male playing savior in a movie where the protagonists are primarily aliens. Its pretty obvious that this movie chose that lead to connect with audiences better and I dont thing the motivation was any different for Last Samurai.

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Absolutely. For sure, in the end, it's about money, and if they make a movie that will connect with their intended audience, the better they can make it connect, the more money it will make.

I hadn't even thought of Avatar, but that is an absolutely perfect example of what we are talking about. A spot on example. Good thinking.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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From my recollection they all died in the end so I don't consider that as saving. Also Algren was a troubled man that yearned for death. The samurai life gave him peace and restored his honor. The samurai saved him.

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That has absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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when the central story involves any group of people that aren't white and there is some type of serious event, they need a white savior?


Is that what you're not discussing?

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My thaughts as well.

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What is it with Hollywood thinking that in so many films, when the central story involves any group of people that aren't white and there is some type of serious event, they need a white savior? Or, not necessarily a savior, but a huge part of what's going on. It's ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, as I did like the film, but this happens so often.


How many films are you talking about? Is it possible you are viewing this (and perhaps other) films through a color filter?

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Too numerous to count. And you need no color filter to see it. It's rampant. White is what pays in Hollywood.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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Too numerous to count. And you need no color filter to see it. It's rampant. White is what pays in Hollywood.


This is not a valid response. I am interested in understanding your point of view. Why not give me your definition of "white savior films" and some names of movies that fit what you are talking about and describe why they fit (such as plots, themes, casting, summaries, scenes, etc)?

I cannot get what you are talking about with such vague descriptions/accusations.

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Well, you will just have to judge my views as unfounded as I don't particularly feel like doing what you ask. Others understand what I am saying as they have seen the types of films I am speaking of. Whether you can get it or not, I don't really care. Such is life. I am not here to convince you. You either see it, or you don't, and if you don't without me giving you examples, so be it. I care not.

Have a nice day.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

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Gabe, I'm not judging; just interested in a nice, polite discussion/debate. I enjoy learning about others' opinions.

Sorry you are not interested. If you change your mind, just reply.

Thanks

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I think your antagonist was either too lazy to think about it, or just felt like spouting off, or hasn't replied because he truly cannot come up with specific examples. It is just his bias coming out to the fore.

The duck out of water theme, or counter culture involvement of men of means helping out those of a different ethnic group is a common theme in Hollywood - think "The Pride and the Passion", "Rush Hour", "Red Heat", "Dances With Wolves" and "Avatar" as a just a few examples.

Movies are made to appeal to certain audiences. They are designed to make money. If the story line has imagination and broad appeal, it is more likely to draw interest and so, make money.

Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. H.L. Mencken

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_savior_narrative_in_film

There are your examples. Are you always lacking in intellect, or is it just something that happens on here?


Why aren't cookies called bakies?

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Pocahontas, Dances With Wolves, Avatar, 12 Years A Slave...

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No answer but truth!


TOM

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[deleted]

"Anti-white" is one of the most ridiculous things I hear. I bet you're a Trump supporter.
Also, white people didn't do *beep* for black people. Still don't to this day, you racist POS

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Anti-white" is one of the most ridiculous things I hear. I bet you're a Trump supporter.
Also, white people didn't do *beep* for black people. Still don't to this day, you racist POST


The concept of being "anti-white" is ridiculous to the guy whom clearly has an anti-white agenda. Go figure.

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Oh, yeah, I have an anti-white agenda and also a gay agenda. And don't forget about the feminist agenda. 

You people are hilarious.

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Blaming the white man is is the laziest form of thought, reason and expression in modern America now.

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Oh really? So clothing, technology, written language, and civilization are nothing? Because blacks would have none of it if it weren't for whites. Also, I think you're proliferating my culture by wearing clothes and using that computer.

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So would you prefer they simply didn't make this film then? Or maybe cast Will Smith as the protagonist? What, what do you want? What's your point?

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What's your point?


If you can't figure that out, then answering your other questions would have no point.



Doing nothing is hard. You never know when you're done.

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But what do you want? Would you prefer they didn't make movies such as this?

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It makes no difference to me.


Doing nothing is hard. You never know when you're done.

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You have a thing for talking in circles.

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Just astounding that there are so many people here arguing with you. The Last Samurai perfectly fits the definition of 'white savior film', along with numerous Hollywood releases of the kind - such as Dances with Wolves.

Gabe is also right to say that these are competently made and enjoyable films. But they reflect something about us, and the ways in which we think in America.

When the United States invaded Iraq, was it perhaps the bloated confidence in the imperial superiority of our whiteness that played a role?

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When the United States invaded Iraq, was it perhaps the bloated confidence in the imperial superiority of our whiteness that played a role?

I don't know if "whiteness" had anything to do with it. But it sure was an imperialistic endeavor. A vestige of our European heritage that what is 6000 miles from our borders, we can still claim as ours? How else to explain the Hawaiian islands, Puerto Rico, the Phillipines, etc. as either states, or vassal states?


Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. H.L. Mencken

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