MovieChat Forums > American Dreams (2002) Discussion > a Catholic family?

a Catholic family?

posted 14 years ago by jane_bront
13 replies | jump to latest

I was hoping that AD would be daring enough to show the Pryors being Catholic beyond Mass attendance. Like when Jack found out that JJ's girl was pregnant or that they had just been having sex (I forget which), I was looking forward to Jack saying something like JJ was making a moral mistake and needed to go to Confession. I don't remember the exact conversation but as a Catholic Jack didn't address a moral issue at all - which was a strange omission for such a traditionalist like Jack.

Also it was disappointing not to see a tug of war between Meg's conscience as a Catholic and her desire for Chris. Her faith wasn't even a minor consideration for her which I found unbelievable.

The show was good and I enjoyed it. I just wish the Pryors' religion wasn't just a cultural practice of rituals for them but an actual belief system that they lived by.

~"Chris, am I weird?"
~"Yeah, but so what? Everybody's weird."

[–] DegrassiFan08 14 years ago

I see where you are coming from with Jack but unlike Helen I don't think he was very religious. I remember when he found out about Helen's birth control he started to say something about what the church says and Helen cut him off saying he only went to church twice a year (I'm assuming she meant Christmas and Easter).

Now obviously the Pryors are Catholic but they aren't strict Catholics. If they were Helen wouldn't have taken BC pills (who I've always considered to be the most religious of the family).

As for Meg I think she changed a lot by the 3rd season but I never considered any of the kids to be very religious. Maybe the exception would be Will or Patty when she wanted to be a smart ass. An example would be when Will broke the Virgin Mary statue and hid it in his dresser drawer. Patty kept telling him how it was a sin.

[–] MadameRoyale 14 years ago

Helen was very clear about her religion when she was speaking with Kristen Bell's character in the first season about her abortion. And Jack, like many fathers of that time, didn't go to church except for the Holidays. He was religious in name only. I don't think they needed to be overzealous in showing the family's faith.

When JJ wanted to get married and Beth didn't want to get married in the Catholic church he spoke to her about how when he was in Vietnam he was happy his mother had made him go to church as it helped him. Beth then decided to get married in the Catholic church. When JJ was MIA Jack & Will went to the church while Helen styaed home, mad at God and the world that her son could possibly be dead. There's your faith struggle. Meg was on a different path and she had much more important things to worry about than deciding whether or not she believed in Catholicism. She was fighting the establishment. She was fighting to end Vietnam, she was brought up Catholic and that's why she was. The series didn't go on long enough for us to see Meg question her faith or to fully accept it either.

Will was young and spoke of God often, I don't pay attention to children's opinions on faith because they are too young to make a really informed decision, they live what they are told. And this is exactly why Will was so afraid when Patty told him he would be going to hell for breaking the Virgin Mary statue. Patty of course didn't really believe that. Patty though, as she got older, did start to question her faith and it was clear by the end of the series that she did not believe in the stories about religion and God that she had been told. She told Jack this and he basically told her to fake it. If she wasn't an atheist she was most definately an agnostic. Catholicism did not, and would not work for Patty.

All in all I think they did an excellent job of showcasing the Pryor's religion without shoving a bunch of Catholic BS on to the audience. I watched this show because it was set in my favorite era and I got to really know & love the characters, had they spent the entire series making sure we knew how much they believed in God (like 7th Heaven) I wouldn't have liked it as much and I think many other people would agree.

[–] jane_bront 14 years ago

Thank you both for responding. It's been such a long time since I've seen the show that I've forgotton about most of the other scenes you've mentioned. While I don't think of Catholicm as "BS," I wasn't desiring a Catholic version of 7th Heaven either but I would have liked to have seen a portrayal of one Catholic in the family whose faith was an important joy to them and whose belief in it wasn't shaken by "The '60's" or tossed aside completely during adolescence. (Patty was the Bad Seed anyway so it was no loss. ) It seems like the show took the PC secular route and made sure no one in this Catholic family would be fully and unapologetically engaged in his or her faith, just in case non-Catholic viewers would be so offended by the "BS" of one character that they wouldn't watch the show at all. Again, I thought the show was good just as it was. But I respectfully assert that if it had dared to include this less popular yet realistic viewpoint from just one character, it would have been better.

~"Chris, am I weird?"
~"Yeah, but so what? Everybody's weird."

[–] MadameRoyale 14 years ago

You're welcome. It's nice to have discussion about this show again...its been far too long.

For the record I used to be Catholic which is why I call it BS. There are many things that church has done & said over the past few centuries that I cannot even believe people still subscribe to following it. Patty wasn't a bad seed. She was intelligent, too intelligent for her time. She wasn't supposed to question these things and she did anyway. She'd be perfect in this century. She made her own decision and those are the type of people who make changes in the world.

I don't think they took the PC route, I just think it wasn't about religion. It was a part of them but it wasn't huge and that is not uncommon. Many Catholic's live their lives without integrating the church's teachings into every aspect of their life. Like I said there really were more important things to be worried about. But I think you have just forgotten that they showed their religion many, many times, more than the ones we mentioned. I just have a feeling you are a believer and would've liked to see more of that in the show but the Pryor's weren't that family.

They were Catholic but like the other poster said they weren't strict so the amount of time they spent on their faith was actually quite realistic. Also remember the episodes were only 42 minutes without commercials and with a decade as turbulant and chaotic as the 60's there really wasn't much else that could be squeezed in.

I loved that they had Patty question her beliefs and even suggest God doesn't exist. That is the unpopular opinion that is rarely shown or accepted.

[–] jane_bront 14 years ago

I see what you're saying. I feel differently though about one or two things. It's possible that some of the historical events/laws/people in Church history that you disagree with or think are obviously bad, such that the Church would be rejected on principle of common sense or love of humanity, I might not see those instances the same way (or I might) but the following applies for me: In any organization of people, even one believed to be formed and guided by God, there are going to be members of that organization who "suck" and cause harm from within something that's inherently good. Without getting too personal I'll just say I can't bring myself to throw the baby out with the bath water - which would be easier but not better.

As for the show - yes, I accept that AD just didn't have any representations of Catholics who did not have problems with being Catholic during this age of social change and who at the same time still addressed those changes in a positive manner. As many Catholic families like this exist as the ones who practice more casually. They are equally realistic. But this was the writers' story to tell the way they wanted to and AD was a very good story. My point is that whenever you have a devoutly religious character on a mainstream show, if at all, they are shown to be anti-progressive, unintelligent, bigoted, closeminded and generally anti-"anything good." So the devout are never lead characters that we come to know and care about and any character's religion is thus "watered down." Also, there is the danger of a show being accused of proselytizing for having such a character portrayal anyway.

Sure, religious people who are unpleasant/bad existed in the Pryors' era and they exist now, but not all or even most are like that. I believe these negatives are the more popular opinions about religious people today - at least in the United States. That's why I think that to have featured just one member of the Pryor family different from that stereotypical mold would have been the more interesting, less predictable characterization of 'coming of age' in the 60's.

Still, it's a very good show. I'm glad it's out on DVD and there seem to be a few really cheap but fairly new copies floating around...

~"Chris, am I weird?"
~"Yeah, but so what? Everybody's weird."

[–] DegrassiFan08 14 years ago

Its great to talk about this show again!

The Pryors religion as portrayed in the show reminds me of a few of my family friends that are Catholic. Their kids go to Catholic school, they may go to Church on Sunday, they participate in Lent, etc but that is pretty much it.

Whenever I rewatch episodes I always say Helen is the most religious. She was the only one IIRC that they showed going to confession (about Professor Witt), she took the kids to church on Sundays, etc.

Jack only went to church on Sundays and maybe said grace at dinner. He never really talked about his religion except I remember one scene from season 3 (just watched it last night) where he talked about the Pope. He was at the store and the Pope was on tv, the barber (forget his name) tried to change the channel and Jack stopped him saying "its the Pope" so he wouldn't change the channel. That ohter than when he took Will to church after JJ went MIA is the only time I can think of him being kind of religious.

I agree that Patty wasn't religious at all. I think in the episode where Will has to know the Apostles Patty told Jack she thought the stories were fake.

I agree with the other poster about Will/children. We all know that children, especially someone like Will :) can be easily influenced.

[–] NDPTAL85 14 years ago

Its interesting you used two phrases to describe the Catholic Church. "inherently good" and "I can't bring myself to throw the baby out with the bath water".

When you're talking about an organization as large and as problematic as the Holy Roman Catholic Church, there isn't much inherent 'good' left. The baby is dead, it drowned in the bath water.

This is the same organization that saw more importance in protecting the freedom and career of pedophile priests than in protecting children from these predators. The same organization that used to run murderous Inquisitions if you weren't sufficiently 'catholic'. The same organization that would rather poor women stay in poverty than escape it via abortion. The same organization that would have people become suicidal because their sexual orientation isn't the norm. An organization where the number of priests and nuns are dropping because people have finally figured out you don't have to give up your sex life to serve the Lord or your fellow man. I could go on and on and on but I think you get the picture. This isn't a group of people that has a few bad apples. The entire orchard is rotten.

Back to the show, there is a good reason why the show probably showed the Pryor family as not being as devout as you would have liked, thats because hardly anyone in the US is that devout even back then. Most people claim to be religious because OTHER people claim to be religious. Its a form of social 'Keeping Up With The Jonses'. Its about fitting in, not actually having a commitment to one's God or one's faith. This is why there's been such a sharp drop in church attendance. Once one family stops attending, 5 other families feel safe to stop attending, and then another 10 families, and then another 20 and so on and so on. Each of those families was showing up each Sunday because the other families were there too. Once it becomes acceptable to not go, people stay home, sleep in, watch football or play video games. The remaining worshippers are the true believers. They always have been and always will be. Only problem is they're only 10-20% of any congregation.

The show was about how America was changing. The people who changed things for the US back in the 60's weren't the devoutly religious. They were the devoutly non-religious. And we all have a better nation to live in because of them.

[–] pioneergrrrl 14 years ago

I felt the show was realistic in it's portrayal of the issues people do have with religion and their lives.

They want to believe in something--especially during challenging times.

But being confronted with complex sittuations (not wanting more children while liking being a mom, a college classmate around an eldest daughters age being very sick following her illegal abortion...etc) makes the world less cut and dry.

The show was good because it showed the very real issues which people dealt with. Concience isn't necessarily just about sitting in a building. It's how we treat ourselves and others.

[–] annathedub 13 years ago

Speaking as someone from a catholic household (though from a different country, Ireland), I have to say that they pretty much nailed on the head what typical catholic families are like, certainly like the families of myself and my friends.

[–] jane_bront 9 years ago

I know families who love their Church and love practicing their faith. It would be realistic to see them represented in media since they do exist just like the families you're familiar with.

[–] jane_bront 9 years ago

@NDPTAL85 - Edited/trimmed to say:

Never mind. You can't relate to what I'm saying and you don't want to see what I'm talking about on this show or any other because you are anti-Catholic. I get it. For others who are less antagonistic and more objective, even while not agreeing - my point is, this family's selective and lukewarm practice of their professed faith, most likely for the sake of TV PC-friendliness - which leans decidedly towards secularism and/or anticlericalism as the default "normal" worldview, - was predictable and boring, thus disappointing. That is all.

[–] pioneergrrrl 9 years ago

And my father who is JJ's age and Catholic also said the show was very realistic in how it portrayed the issues which he had with the Church at that time.

Yes they went to Church--but in real world everybody did not always lock-step with church teachings. World outside Church was more complex.

[–] pioneergrrrl 8 years ago

That episode was BS with Helen saying those things

My dad was Catholic in 60's and Church did not thump those things. They did not talk about it at at all.

He said if Helen had found out, she yes would have helped the classmate recover but would not have lectured her about life.

For realistic way of how Catholics did handle it---look at 1954 segment of if these walls could talk. The Catholic sister in law specifically says she does not care how it is handled, just that the mother in law does not find out because it will kill her.