MovieChat Forums > Tears of the Sun (2003) Discussion > Bruce Willis was too old for his rank!

Bruce Willis was too old for his rank!

posted 11 years ago by tbirdman-1
9 replies | jump to latest

Now do not get me wrong as I have always like BW as an actor and
action film star. Though anybody who's served in the US Navy
or any other armed service will agree that he was simply too
old for his lieutenant rank! First of all I am an eight years
veteran of surface warfare (surface vessels) and I was enlisted
though have served under many officers who were my department
heads and were always at the rank of ensign, lt. junior grade
or full lt. Newly commissioned line officers serving aboard
ships start out as an ensign the lowest officer rank and then
after two years are promoted to Lieutenant junior grade and
then another two years to lieutenant. To be realistic AK Waters
was much too old for his rank and Bruce Willis was in his
late fourties in real life. So therefore an active duty
naval officer of this age would be at the pay grade of 0-6
captain or 0-7 rear admiral. During my time in uniform I never
met nor served under any junior officer who was not in his
or her twenties or thirties. A real life naval lieutenant
would be just in his/her mid-twenties or late twenties to
mid-thirties if he/she is what is known as a staff corps
officer. Example, officers who are designated for specific
duties within their chosen field of interest. Dentists,
jag lawyers, chaplains, physicians, supply officers etc.
These particular fields in the navy can and will have many
officers in their thirties and fourties because they have
not graduated from naval rotc or the naval academy and
they receive their starting rank of lieutenant through
what is known as "direct commissioning." So in conclusion
BW played the role very well and I enjoyed Tears Of The Sun
though seeing him as a 48 year old lieutenant was just
too unrealistic!

Lorenzo Sunny Arizona

Call me a sailor or a swabby just don't call me a squid!

[–] herbsuperb 11 years ago

#1: You are assuming the character started his career track in the Navy as an officer.
#2: You are assuming the character was the same age as the actor.
#3: You are assuming you know something about the Navy SeALs. Maybe you do, but perhaps special forces career tracks differ from surface combatant career tracks.

Stop with the assumptions.

[–] grendelkhan 11 years ago

I was a naval officer. Career path, in regards rank and time in service is pretty much the same, possibly even quicker (especially these days, with the emphasis on spec-ops). The only possible explanation is that Willis' character was a "mustang," and enlisted sailor promote to an officer rank, due to leadership abilities. Mustangs tend to be older then their commissioning program counterparts.

The problem really lies in the casting of Willis in the role. He is too old. He should at least be a Lt. Commander or Commander, but such a rank would not be leading an operation like this, generally speaking. That's Hollywood for you.

It would have made more sense if he was a master chief petty officer, who takes over when the lieutenant is killed, though a master chief probably wouldn't be in the field, either.

Then again, Hollywood films have been filled with people too old for the role. John Wayne, in the Green Berets, would have likely been a retired general, not a colonel. At least, there, there was some reality, in that Special Forces was a career killer for making general. Up until the 80s, it was pretty rare to make flag rank in special operations, without leaving it behind to go back to the regular Army or Navy (or Marines). By the 90s, a tour in special operations was considered desirable.

"Fortunately, Ah keep mah feathers numbered for just such an emergency!"

[–] eddysl12 10 years ago

I can't speak for the Navy Seals but one thing I read about relatively small military organizations such as the French Foreign Legion or the British Royal Marines is that the smaller the organization, the generally harder and longer it takes to get any kind of promotion.

That said, Lt Waters seemed to be in his mid-forties and one does have to wonder just what the heck he had been doing in the Navy Seals for the past 20 or so years.

[–] ezzy666 10 years ago

For some of us there is being young and being old. We don't distinguish between differences in old. I worked for me.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

[–] eddysl12 10 years ago

If you are saying that mid-forties isn't old I agree. If you see a 25 year old man dressed in a boy scouts uniform then the thought that will most likely occur to you is that this guy is too old to be a boy scout. You are not thinking that 25 years old is old, it isn't, it is still quite youthful. You are thinking though this is a man not a boy and he shouldn't be dressed like a boy.

I'm not quite sure how a LT who is in his mid-forties would have survived the up-or-out system that the military has.

[–] thinkmcfly16 10 years ago

Truly lots of assumptions here about age and rank. While, in general field-grade officers are younger than the mid to upper 40s, many "specialists", in particular "Mustangs", i.e. prior enlisted are well out of the normal age band. This is even with the required"up or out" requirements.

I made Senior Chief Petty Officer (E-8), the next to most senior enlisted rank BEFORE earning my commission as an LDO. I put on LCDR (Lieutenant Commander) at age 45, meaning the day before promotion I was a 45-year Lieutenant. Make that a 45 year LT with the best PRT scores in my command, but more wrinkles, scars, and experience than anyone in my AOR, with a ridiculous ribbon set. Real PITA.

I am exactly the guy that the desk-riders sent out when they wanted something done, but didn't want to worry about their nice clean uniforms (sarcasm intended), or their chances of promotion.

[–] eddysl12 10 years ago

Yes, ideally ALL officers would have to have been enlisted before they are allowed to become officers.

Thanks for explaining, and I loved your last line.

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

Who knows? The Waters character says he's been around for quite awhile. May be he kept wanting to do this sort of thing and knocked back other promotional opportunities. Relatively speaking he probably was older than normal, but it wasn't an issue for me.🐭

[–] oldgoatee 9 years ago

I was Army, not Navy, I had four years enlisted then went to college to get my commission so I was a 26-year old second lieutenant. I left the Army at 37 as a captain (same as naval lieutenant) for medical reasons. When I was in ROTC summer camp we had a cadet who was 34 and he had served 12 years enlisted getting out as an E-7 drill sergeant then going to college and earning his commission. He would have been a captain well into his 40's.