I'm not gonna ask if he was actually cheating or not. But, was the ending suppose to be that depressing? in the airport at the end, Emma Thompson says she's 'fine'. What does that men? Is she actually fine? or has she forgiven him? or has she realized her husband is attracted to another woman, and she's ok with it?
lol, i dno!
I think the implication is that they've sorted themselves out; he's been a fool and she's forgiven him. They've got far too much to lose if they separate over a bit of mid-life folly.
shareWe also have to realise that Emma's character is terribly restrained and British. She's not really into making a display about things. She is very good at holding it together when she needs to.
However, she had extracted a confession from her husband. And an admission that he was a "total fool".
On Christmas morning she would have made him get up early and go to church, where he would have been forced to say the General Confession, and everybody would have greeted them with smiling faces, and Karen would have been totally gracious, and he would have felt like the greatest cad in the world.
"great minds think differently"
Not sure about that, they don't strike me as church-going types. But yes, her restraint and control is well played. We particularly admire her in the scene at the school, after the show, when she can have the most shattering conversation of her life with her erring husband, but keep a bright face for her children and friends passing by.
It's Christmas.
Karen mightn't be regular, but she's a church goer. She will make absolutely certain that they get there on Christmas morning......
"great minds think differently"
What makes you think that?
"Oh, Britta's in this?"
Where in the film does it state that she is a church goer?
"What, you don't like rice? Tell me Michael, how could a billion Chinese people be wrong?"
Yes, I wondered that too. It doesn't seem very likely to me.
The film doesn't indicate that Emma is a "church goer". It doesn't need to "indicate" that, as if a woman of her age and class would be a rarity, if she was a "church goer".
She is typical of the sort of woman who probably went to a church school, has a thoroughly "Church of England" background, and would go to church at Christmas and Easter, even if not at other times of the year.
Let me put it to you that the film opens with two church services. Church is important in the lives of some of these people, in times of joy, in times of sorrow, and in times of crisis. Karen is having a crisis. And she is having it on Christmas Morning. Why wouldn't she go to church on Christmas morning, given that it is appropriate to the day of the year?
This is pure speculation of course, but what is she going to do, on the worst Christmas morning of her life, if she doesn't go to church? Going to church means activity: get up early, get breakfast, hurry the kids through the bathroom and into clothes, out into the bracing air and a pleasant walk with the bells ringing. It's about acting out wife and mother in a competent busy way, rather than simply opening presents, eating breakfast, and glaring at Harry across the table.
The PM will be at the Abbey. His man will make sure he gets there on time.
"great minds think differently"
<<<<What is she going to do, on the worth morning of her life, if she doesn't go to church?>>>>
Um, on the very worst day of my life, church would be the LAST place I'd wanna be. Karen gave absolutely ZERO indication that she was even Christian... except knowing that it was odd that a lobster was present at the birth of Jesus.
Georgina: Are we safe here?
Michael: Does Albert read?
I agree; I'm a middle-class middle-aged Londoner, and the only person I know from my own sort of background who goes to church regularly is an elderly spinster. Our London ethnic minorities, of course, have their own communities and worship in their own ways - all part of the richness of London life. But it's not a muesli-belt habit.
Suzume-san
This reply is well-and-truly out of date. But I'm going to make it anyway.
I don't know what part of London you're at, but I can say this, when I am in London, I have attended a couple of C of E churches where the congregations have a large number of Karens and Harrys and their children. And on Christmas Morning, they are packed to overflowing.
"great minds think differently"
There's what, 10 million people in London these days, if not more?
How many seats are there in total in the London churches (all faiths)? I doubt it's more than 1 million total seats tbh.
I just watched the film last weekend but now that it's mentioned on this thread, I also got the impression that they were church goers. I can't remember what about the film made me think that. But I remember thinking that Harry's wondering eye would have been especially hard on her because of their close family and religious faiths. Odd. I'll have to watch the film again when it comes on TV to see what gave me that impression.
shareI remember reading somewhere that most of what we say comes from our body language and NOT out of our mouths. Now I could just be mistaken but, look a her body language at the end when they meet at the airport. Her eyes grow cold and dead and her face seems listless and detached from her surroundings. That doesnt look like the face of a woman that fought for love and marriage and is now happy again because it all worked out. Anyone else notice that?
R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !
I agree, its the look of a woman who is putting her children first and is in a marriage she would rather not be in.
shareYes--also, the way she tells him, "I've been FINE." In her heart she's already left, though physically she stayed.
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Yes. He killed their marriage as it was - note the warmth and enthusiasm in their earlier scenes that's utterly absent now.
They're together now; they may stay together long term - because there are other reasons than love that can keep a marriage together. Kids is the one we hear about most often, but also: property, insurance, convenience.
We can't know what healing may take place over the long term, or what new kind of relationship may grow up between them. But like a mended bone or a glued-together plate, it will never be exactly the same. We see that not just in her body language and tone, but in his reaction. Pain and mourning on both sides.
Protestants don't HAVE to go to church
shareI disagree with you about her character being restrained. I think their story is about a long established marriage when they get to a point when they stop appreciating or taking care of each other. He falls for a pretty girl who wants him sexually unlike his wife who's comfortable and long past the excitement of newness, she's gained weight over the years and no longer works hard to woo him. This is shown in the comparison images of Karen getting undressed after the party in her slim wear under her long modest skirt and Mia who wears very little red bra and panties. He enjoys Mia's attention and is easily persuaded to buy her an expensive romantic necklace for Mia while the wife shops for their mothers gifts, always doing the nurturing familial duties. He overlooks up his reliable and loyal loving wife to flirt and woo a younger thinner sure thing, he is the cliche midlife crisis man.
shareI think she accepted his explanation and his apology and they are working through it. She even says earlier in the movie "true love lasts a lifetime." It does a good job of giving us an early glimpse of her views on love and that she'd be likely to work for the relationship.
shareJust watched this again the other night. I took the "fine" as meaning. "I am fine without you, really" Type of thing. I mean, he met her at the airport, right? He was coming back from somewhere, I suppose.. The way she walked out of the school with her 2 kids and NOT him made me think she was going to leave him.
shareShe's not going to leave him. She is too mature and sensible for that. She has the kids to think of. She has too much invested in the marriage to disrupt her entire life, because her husband had a stupid fling with a girl who has flattered his ego.
What is more, when she questioned Harry, she did it very cleverly. She didn't say "You've been cheating on me!' She didn't make accusations. And she chose her time and place to challenge him very carefully, where there could not be a horrible emotional scene, and they both had to keep their cool.
She offered her husband a number of ways of explaining it to her. Is it sex and a necklace? Is it love? etc.
Harry could tell her it was "sex and a necklace".
He could also say "I am deeply in love with Mia and want out." But we know he won't say that.
The part about the kids was simply that she had to hide her distress, for their sakes. She couldn't greet the children after their performance, with tears running down her face, so she put on a very happy demeanour. She also took the attention off her husband, who was in a state of gross embarrassment and humiliation. She was caring for him, and covering for him, even then.
He was overseas, because of his job in humanitarian aid. When she says she's "fine", she doesn't mean "fine without him". If she meant "I'm fine without you", she would not have been at the airport to meet him. She would have cut the ties while he was out of the country. When she says "I'm fine!" she means that she has been woking on her own grief and turmoil while he's been away.
"great minds think differently"
SPOILERS
I don't think Harry had sex with Mia, I think he was flattered that a younger woman found him attractive, and I think it was just a necklace. I don't think it was sex or love, but I do think he felt very bad and sorry for what he did. Even if it was just a necklace, it still hurts.
Where are you getting so much of your information? Humanitarian aid? Are you flipping the DVD over and getting a lot more details than the rest of us saw?
Georgina: Are we safe here?
Michael: Does Albert read?
Uh, no, I just think that's what happened.
shareWwfmegan, I think that the person above you ( My_Name_Is_Lydia) was talking to Mandyjam when she referred to "humanitarian aid," not to you. You didn't have that phrase as part of your message and what you wrote was perfectly sensible, so you didn't need to defend yourself or your words.
shareWhen Laura Linney is working late and Carl comes in to say Merry Christmas you can see poster on the wall beside her that says "help shoulder their burden" - ie - they work for a humanitarian organisation. :)
She also told the two kids that "dad is coming" as they were walking out. He may be on the couch for a few nights, but this wasn't the end.
I agree that Emma Thompson's body language is fantastic. I don't agree that she would rather not be in the marriage. It is not simply about the kids.
She has already stated that she could "cut and run" but offers the alternative that "things could always be worse".
She has made her decision to stay. She has also treated him kindly by making the path to reconciliation easy. But it is not just for the kids.
What she is doing, for the kids is disguising the fact that their father has caused her a lot of pain. Basically, he has destroyed a quality in their marriage that he can never get back. But that doesn't mean that she would rather leave, because she ha enough sense to see all the other things that she has.
"great minds think differently"
I thought it was obvious, but it was a "fine" that most of us say when we feel lousy and someone asks us how we are. Notice how she quickly repeats it and her weary facial expression. She also can't look at Harry properly when she says 'Good to have you back'. Then she says 'Come on, home' still in that drained, slightly resigned tone. Something has cooled within her but she's keeping it together for the sake of the family, for now at least. I think the ending was hopeful and realistic.
shareI always felt they were separated, when he came back from America it seemed like they parted ways, I can't remember the lines, but something about good to have you back, and the way it was implied left me feeling he was just visiting her and the kids.
I was always confused about what happened between him and the office chick, it was always ambiguous on if he did or did not cheat on Emma, sometimes I'm left thinking he was just infatuated with the girl and nothing ever happened, other times I think he might be going through some kind of mid life crisis and had the opportunity and acted on it.
-The Price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
When we see them in airport, he is just visiting,
and of course they're "fine", just like any other separated couple who have maintained normal relations
Doesn't matter that they didn't show cheating (with Mia or anynoby else)
and separation
edit: ok, she says "Good to have you back", so she forgave him
but I imagine it was much more serious than one gift
They've patched it up and are still together, but she's hurt and hasn't gotten over it. Probably not sleeping together any more.
shareThe airport scene tells me that the scenario most of you envision is not happening. He's coming from *somewhere*, he asks her how she is. I assume they've separated. And when she says 'home', her mouth is turned down. No, this is not a forgive and forget thing.
shareI agree; when he kissed her, she didn't kiss him back--the look she gave him told him he'd be camping out on the couch for some time to come.
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I think he never slept with Mia. Like someone said in another thread, I think that was the whole point of this storyline: to prove that "innocent" flirtation is dangerous, extremely hurtful, humiliating and disrespectful, and thus still cheating.
My interpretation of the ending is that they probably decided to take a break for some time, to give both time to think and heal. He also needed to drastically get away from Mia if he wanted to give his marriage a real chance, and a long business trip/working abroad were convenient solutions.
When she greeted him at the airport, it was obvious that she was still hurt and not over what had happened, and that he was still uncomfortable and probably feeling guilty. I suppose they both realised the future wasn't going to be easy, and that the temporary separation didn't magically solve all their problems. But she did say they were going home. All of them. If he was going to sleep in their bed or in the couch that night is irrelevant; it's obvious that their relationship is far from "all right", but she clearly decided to give him - their family, more like - a chance.
---
Note Karen had spruced herself up a bit at the airport. Nice earrings, newly-styled and frosted hair. She had been a bit dowdy, focusing on the kids especially, and even that bedroom was SO drab, with no pillows on the bed. One can see that that marriage had been on automatic, I think.
Click edit to improve spelling, grammar, content.
I think you're onto something there morningsidemary. She is making a go of tryinig to be a more attractive wife to him. I enjoyed reading these threads and seeing people's take on what happened between Rickman's character and Mia. I am also of the opinion that he never slept with Mia, that Mia totally played him like a joke in order to get something materialistic, like a notch on her belt. I would imagine that she could no longer work there, though. There's a deleted scene from the Blu-ray that shows her plotting her affair with her boss like it's all just a fun game to her.
shareHe did sleep with Mia.
When you see Mia putting on the necklace, she's half naked in bed with her sheets all messed up. I don't think they would have shot it that way if they didn't sleep together. I wish he didn't do it, I'd prefer if it was just a necklace, but I can't understand why the filmmakers would show that if not to imply that they had sex.
He did NOT sleep with Mia, did you see a scene in which he slept with her?
Does Mia seem like the type that would make a bed? lol.
It WAS just a necklace :)
Ah well if the scene isn't in the film, then it obviously didn't happen. Which has me wondering, how on earth did Colin get to Wisconsin? I mean I would have thought he travelled by plane, but it's not shown......
I actually tend to agree with you that they didn't sleep together as I like the idea of different ways to be unfaithful and I think that's what the film maker was going for. However he is shown to turn up home from work significantly late. If we assume he left work as normal, went to buy the necklace then took it to Mia's home....it would make as much sense that they then slept together, especially as she is shown in sexy underwear in a messed up bed putting it on. Why have that scene other than to make things ambiguous?
What I'm saying is it's strange that you seem 100% certain that you're right and anyone thinking otherwise is wrong. It's really all down to interpretation.
lol, MIke since you like to tell me I give bad examples, I have to call you on yours. If they had wanted us to think that these 2 had sex theyd have given us a scene that showed they engaged in the activity. The entire plot line was meant to show that even acting in the impulse to cheat, or doing what he did ( just buying an expensive gift to feel out the waters) is cheating.
Also, In your bad example, we did see Colin go through the airport security, and ten seconds later come out of the wisconsin airport, so clearly they did "show" him travelling by plane, minus showing the actual plane he flew on.
I am 100 percent certain I am right, because I am 100 percent confident what the film showed us, and how they carefullly constructed that entire plot line.
Right okay, but unless there's confirmation from the writers, then ultimately that 100% confidence you have is obviously misplaced. It's not actually confirmed either way. As I said, I tend to agree with you that they did not sleep together, but would concede that there is a carefully placed scene that suggests they MAY have. Unless you can offer some other explanation for Mia being in her underwear on her bed when they show her wearing the necklace? If the writers wanted people to be 100% certain there was no physical infidelity, then surely they could have shown her receiving the necklace at work?
Unless it's just a goof by the writers, not making the question of physical infidelity clear. But then, I know how sensitive you are to any suggestion of goofs on this movie ;)
It's been a while since I saw the movie but I always got the impression that Rickman's character was supposed to visit Mia after the school play but changed his plans after being confronted by his wife. I think the scene with Mia with the underwear and neckless on the bed is there to show us that she is waiting for him and is starting to get frustrated when he doesn't show up. So,while he didn't actually cheat, he would have done so if his wife had not discovered the affair.
Obviously, this is just my interpretation, the ending is ambiguous and open to different interpretations.
i think that's a good interpretation, ladidaaaa. i had always thought that they had had sex, because of the mis-en-scene: messed up bed, jazzy lingerie, necklace, cheshire cat grin (the only thing that counters your assessment of frustration - i think she's grinning because she knows she gotten what she wants). however, i also always felt a little off because she wasn't wearing the necklace yet. so i allowed that she had pushed him into bed before even putting it on, and was only admiring her booty once he had left. however, i think your interpretation is just as plausible (and happier, if such a situation could be happy, for a romantic like me).
shareAll I have to say is who in their right mind would cheat on Emma Thompson? Who!?
Salvo Daze
Harry(Rickman) did cheat, but Mia is a skank and Karen(Thompson)knew that and knew he cheated. Though she knew it was not "love" due to the Joni Mitchell C.D. Harry gave her as a present.
shareWhen this movie was first released, the film critic mentioned that Emma Thompson must have drawn on her emotions for the discovery scene in the bedroom from her own experience with Kenneth Branaugh. Emma finds out that Alan has purchased a very nice necklace and thinks it is for her. But when it comes time to open presents, she gets a cd instead. She looks through he pockets and finds out that the necklace is meant for someone else. Then she goes up to the bedroom and ponders over all of family portraits on the wall. Apparently quite a few people in the production team working for Kenneth and Helena Bonham-Carter knew they were having an affairs before Emma realized what was going on. Basically making her look foolish. This was long before they all appeared on HP. Of course, now she is with Tim Burton. Emma is with Mr. Willoughby from Sense and Sensibility.
share