A discussion I'd like to have, about this movie, and a bit more, please?

(Disclaimer: I'm talking about these issues within the fictional context of the movie, these situations may or may not happen and I am personally unaware of gun companies trying to control juries. However in this movie they are, herein the issue will be addressed)

So, the reason Hackamn's side must loose has absolutely nothing to do with the "gun-control rights" in the U.S.A.
It had everything to do with the fact that they were jury tampering and had been for quite some time. Did this justify John Cusack's actions? Some might say no, I say yes.

If you have people of this level of power, that are professionals at not only winning the cases, but deciding the verdict. I'd like to see anyone try to use our legal system with limited funds and rescources out-manuever these guys. Reality check: It won't happen.

*beep* all over the law is the problem with big companies, guns, big tobacco, etc. Of course these guys are made to be the boogey-men. And they are, but we are the ones that let them under the bed. Gun-control is a farce, all one needs to do is look at the FACTS, and see that it clearly never has, and never will work. That is the price of freedom.
Maybe some people foreign to the U.S think the 2nd ammendment is foolish and we are all gun-toting rednecks. Well, you prove your own ignorance in that notion.
But here in the U.S I think there is a far larger amount of people then even we realize that are willing to "pay" for freedom. An interesting and seemingly contradictory statement.

But to have freedom also means responsibility. I haven't met a single gun-owner that legally owned firearms that wasn't responsible about them. Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't or that bad bigs won't happen to those people.

John Cusack's character was out to send a message. I think that he wasn't as "far left" as some may think. Gun companies do share some measure of liability. Of course they can't be held responsible for gun-toting maniacs, but they have no right to force juries the way they do. It should be won on the merits that make our Constitution so great.

I know some will say that Cusack just did the same thing as Hackmen did. But then again, guns themselves teach us that sometimes you do have to fight fire with fire. This is how our country was born after all.


EDIT: A final point I'd like to make to anyone defending the side of the gun companies (or maybe are looking at defending them as the same as defending the 2nd ammendment), is accountability. Most big companies hate that word, and avoid it like the plague. Press-releases that have been watered down. False advertising, all the while under the blanket of U.S law. After all, when you can destroy paper-trails and alter things electronically, you can get away with murder.
But to us, the people buying the product, what do we have to look forward to if it is faulty? Years in court? Draining our minds, bodies, and bank accounts in an uphill battle against a legal system designed to protect us, but instead protects the people who are at the top of the capitolist food chain.
Absolute free capitolism is as much as a death sentence as the exact opposite of it, a dictatorship. What's odd is ussualy in the end, you yield the same result. Countries torn asunder by strife and political dogma, whether it is communism, socialism, freedom fighting, capitolism. If you allow any single system to have absolute control you wind up a slippery slope.
One only needs to look at the history of the past century to see this.

Eisenhower himself warned of the military industrial complex. A war machine come straight from the darkest depths of World War 2, one that never came with an "off" button. In reality this movie is just but an extension of it.

The manufacturers have the responsibility of making the guns safe to handle. The rest of the company has to make sure that they were being distributed in a safe manner. If they don't and one of their dealers sells something to someone who should never have had a gun, then yes, it is the gun companies fault.

What we really need is if say, hypothetical, we lived in that time, surrounding this case, and it were real. What happens when the Big Firearms guys loose the first major case in the history of the U.S. Does it open a pandora's box? Does it start the real war-drums to beat on against the 2nd ammendment? Possibly, highly doubtful though. We see the power of the mob (us) every day, the media controls the mob, the goverment manipulates the media as best they can, and the mob contorts, moves forward, annnd-Boom, something happens, but what? Do we see the beasts laying bare before us. The emporerer's clothes are no more. To the right wee the stairway and a window, showing the inevitable chaos that the collapse of these systems would bring. Do you go out into it? Make this country our own again? Or do you turn to the left, see the devil's dress, armani suits lining the closet to the side of the dying beasts, the Captains of Industry.

We hear about revolution, the power of the goverment, how we should fear our goverment, or maybe they should fear us. I say, fear all, or fear none.

We go full circle in this country and we will wind up in revolution again. The little things like this movie is what makes the history so sweet. The true question are, what kind of revolution, who's side is what. And is it really the Citizens V.S Them? How can anyone here be sure that you would not try to keep the masses down if you saw from as high up as some of these men and women? What would happen if they got thrown down here at the bottom for a bit?
All these arguments, ranging from people wanting their gun rights but wanting to impose sexual restrictions on other people, the ones who are just one for the other, the anti-Obama, the Pro-Obama, the fundies, etc. The only thing we have come close to in absolute truth is science. The one thing most people are content to ignore most of their lives. But I digress,
All of these things, when looked at, broaded and put up as a big picture, and you may or may not see what I do. People, in every sense of the word. People scared to be proven wrong, even if the truth is much more important, people angry because someone else tells them how to live their life. People angry because the people who's lives they find disgusting aren't going away anytime soon, and they know it. People.

All of you, these wonderful minds, and somehow it seems like we could be applying our entire beings to something so much more incredible than just trying to get by. Just trying to make a point, trying to make a buck, trying to make a life, trying to get rid of yours. All of these people, from the highs to the get-lows, we all have an ideal life. Most of us don't know what the hell an ideal world would look like. In reality, usually the "ideal life" is that person's world. That's fine. But with all these ideaologies going around this board, important ones. From Christians, to Muslims, to atheists like myself. From varying politcal parties, Libertarian (me), Liberal, Democrat, Republican, Neo-Con, Conservative, Socialists, Communists. And yes, there is a difference between these groups.

What all of us need to ultimately ask ourselves is. Who is REALLY running the country? And far more importantly, who, or what, is running mankind? Evolutionary process? Of course! Some big secret cabal, some New World Order? Maybe. You? ? that's the real question, right there. I ask each of you to lay each of your beliefs at the door, as best you can. Think about the issues brought up on here, and defend the ones you don't want to. Think deeply about your answers and why, step outside of what you know. Experience it from a different viewpoint. This is far from original, cliche even. But if taken seriously and under each person's own steam. Without camera crews, etc. putting pressure on for some show.
Seriously look into the debates and arguments of the ones you disagree with. I you are against abortion, go defend it! If you are against "pro-lifers" (like I am, mostly), I will happily argue for that! As much as an emotional and selfless debate it must be for all of us.

The Gun issues, pro-? anti-? Well here you must make the case. And thoroughly. Remember you must be in complete opposition to the idea you are defending. Not only that, the secret goal here is for you to find some moral grounding and standing with these issues you appose, to see if you are capable of sympathizing with their situations. This isn't something that I can see some people here just scoffing at, others taking interest. But it will be hard, and it will take time, it will also make your skin crawl.

So finally my challenge boiled-down is this: Do you have what it takes to defend what you find most wrong and try to find some moral standing with the people who are in this camp and mindset. Not out of civility, but a true moral understanding. Maybe it is simply not possible on some issues. Others, may yield surprising results :)

Finally I am going to say one personal tidbit about myself. Unlike the extremely Mormon family and other fundie Catholics I grew up around. I enjoy being proven wrong. Being proven wwrong is another way of syaing "+1 for Knowledge!"
I am insulting faith here. No argument or debate should ever include blind belief. Otherwise you will just hit a brick wall.

Anyone game? Pick a topic, and lets roll!